A&Q about 350Z
Q:
Can anyone give me more information on the Hyper Ground System from Sun Automobile and it is good for my 350.
A:
All a complete waste of money.
A:
Why are there so many people here that think this system is a waste of money? It is not a waste of money. It helps out the vehicles electrical system. The manufacturer couldn't possibly convince me it'd increase horsepower, but it will help electrical signals. Also, it could be considered a preventitive measure.
When you loose a ground due to corrosion or something else, the electricity will do one of two things, find another path, or just go out. If it finds another path, you could do quite a bit of damage.
I say this from experience. I've replaced e-brake cables, starters, and a few other parts just because the grounds were corroded.
If you want to consider it a waste of money because you know how to do it yourself then fine. If you can make it look as good as the kit, fine. But adding extra grounds to the vehicle isn't a waste of money.
I have 10 extra grounds on my Samurai and it does run better now. It's a peice of .... that I use to off road in and it was probably just happy to get a new part put on. No matter. It runs better than it did before I put the grounds (home made) on. Not faster or more power, just better.
Now you know why I think the way I do. Why do you think the way you do?
A:
Adding more grounds to a new 'non corroded wiring' grounded engine the factory has wired for you already...a waste of time.
Checking those grounds in a few years and adding wiring to ground wires that are shot and corroded...time well spent.
2003 Nissan 350Z Enthusiast Coupe (Fast)
2003 Mercury Marauder (Faster)
1996 Ford Ranger (Don't ask!)
A:
i bought a grounding kit with an extended warranty.
how could i go wrong! d'oh (_8{|}
2003 350Z LeMans Sunset Track with Nav
No mods
A:
From an engineering perspective a grounding system is a great addition to the 350Z and since the Japanese version and the European version have the grounding kit installed factory it is a good investment. The grounding system eliminates ground loops. This allows the computer controlled engine to function in a more responsive way. Note that you have drive by wire. And, if there are those that do not understand please look up what a ground loop is...
A:
kj301, you bring up the topic of RF, which was part of an extensive "debunking" post i did a while back on grounding kits.
indeed, adding stray copper under the hood does change the RF characteristics, and may actually route signals past other areas of the vehicle that may have meant to be shielded from them.
notice the use of the words "may have meant," as i'm not asserting that this is true, but is part of RF theory.
in addition, every circuit on the car that is grounded runs through the frame back to the battery. this is evidenced by the fact that there is (1) wire coming off the battery terminal, and runs to the frame ground. thus, certain aspects of doctorken's essay deal with the receipt of signals in good quality. it is possible, theoretically, to interfere with the transmission of the signals or change the quality, even if better, to those devices that rely on the pulses. either way, without a good scope on the system, injecting any change to the grounding characteristics of the vehicle, in this case by a more direct run to the battery, could screw up the timing and/or quality of the received signals, causing other nuisances.
2003 350Z LeMans Sunset Track with Nav
No mods
A:
But I just don't get it. My simple mind is picturing all these tiny little positive rivulets running to all these devices, and a river the size of the Amazon, running back to the battery. What good would it do to dredge the Amazon?.....could that possibly effect the flow of the rivulets?
A:
no you've got it, 128sl. however, there is a concept that says that if the ground potential of the newly installed grounding kit is "lower" than the ground potential of the frame ground, then the signal will always flow to the lower ground potential. thus, you would be rerouting the signal from the frame ground to the copper, which i suppose has better transmission qualities than the frame. that's the theory of the ground kit.
this is how you install surge suppression on a power panel. you run a big heavy 6 gauge copper wire from the main ground into a box, which is connected to a building ground. there is a special circuit inside the box which lowers the ground potential. it actually has some electronics in it. so, unless the grounding kits are coming with a box of some sort, the overall effectiveness of drawing the signal will be lowered to just that of the copper cable. my guess would be 50%. so 50% still flows to frame ground.
the other question, then, becomes whether the copper increases the quality of the grounding in any way. given the nominal operating conditions of an automobile, which sensors are tuned to as doctorken mentions, the actual outcome of the grounding kit experiment might well be disadvantageous. it's possible. not sure how probable. this is all very theoretical.
my contention is that once installed, the driver pays more attention to the automobile in general, and the "power of suggestion" plays it's role and they think it's better. it just must be thus.
2003 350Z LeMans Sunset Track with Nav
No mods
A:
I have heard that cars with grounding kits have problems with front tires while cars without grounding kits are fine LMAO
I looked at a few of the sensors on my Z with a scope and they are the same with or without the home made grounding kit.
Since my background is electronics (worked on a bench for 20 yrs) and I have drag raced cars off and on for 25 yrs. I think it is safe to say it is all snake oil.
All the dyno's I have seen show an increase of 1-2 HP. That is well within the error of any dyno I have every used.
This subject has been going around forever on most import boards. You never hear of grounding an America made car. In my racecars the battery ground went to the frame and body and the motor picked the ground up from the frame (battery in back for better weight transfer).
SOLD
2003 LeMans Sunset/Burnt Orange
Touring/Auto All options but Nav
New Rides
2006 Mustang GT convertible Tri-Black
2006 Toyota Tacoma 4X4
A:
I figured it out now. Never discuss religion, sex or politics and now add grounding kits to the list. I am glad that there are those that do not want a grounding kit since mine runs better than yours and I have the factory one installed.
A:
holy crap, you mean it's selling for like $100?!?!?!?!?!
spend away. helps election-time politics. like i said, i won't slap it out of your hand.
seems like a waste though when the white cluster guage inserts give you 30 HP for $5.
=)
2003 350Z LeMans Sunset Track with Nav
No mods
A:
350ZNewbie, you forget special body decals for an additional 50hp!Those are only $20 as well! LOL
'04 Silverstone Enthu
A:
I rest my case on the addition of sex to the list as there are those on this form that are highly sensitive... I would go for the aftermarket grounding system since the factory one is for the Japanese spec car and the cabl;e that goes to the battery is longer than needed. But, it still works great...
A:
so i'm dying to know, zdemon, what you're going to do here. =)
2003 350Z LeMans Sunset Track with Nav
No mods
A:
post statistics (gawd i wish this cheapo forum had a poll message type):
grounding kits rulez! (3) greasemonkey, vonsudderth, diggler30
waste of time/money (11) azjimbo, TwoLow, 350ZNewbie, doctorken, grounded, kj301, photoz, panman1978, 128s1, 03LeMans350Z, fluid
that's where we stand.
2003 350Z LeMans Sunset Track with Nav
No mods
A:
If you have not driven one with the grounding kit you will never know... And, the quote is "A fool and his money soon part"
A:
i like penis. there. thats grounded.
==============================================
High Performance NA L28 engine, Performance Suspension, Full Interior, 2500lbs, and room for 3 HOT girls in the car!
shift_2+2
13.9 @102.7 on 205mm street tires and 110 octane :-)
A:
Ok, I can now say I've driven a Z with a grounding kit. I just put one in my Z...and I just gained 40hp! Forget a TT kit, everyone just needs one of these!
Seriously, I do have a ground kit in my Z now; although, my kit is homemade. After I got done wiring my amp in today and I had some extra cable left over. 4ga Monster amp cables. I decided to conduct a little experiment.
I went out and bought 5 sets of Monster gold plated 4ga ring terminals, for $25.00. I figure the cable I had left over was worth about $32.00. In total, I spent about $60+labor. I did get a discount on my supplies though. Courtsey sells their kit for $89. I only saved about $20 from a top end kit...oh well. My kit probably has lower resistance than most on the market.
I wired my kit the same way the prefab kits stated. I drove for a while with the kit on, then I took it off and drove some more. I then put the kit back on. My final assessment of grounding kits: still aren't worth the time and money but they do help a little.
The kit did smooth out my idle and it made my electrical system function better. My gauge lights don't dim when the sub hits anymore. Did the kit improve on the ponies? Maybe. If it did, it's negligible to where I can't tell.
Should you get one? If you have the money go for it. I still say that money could be better spent. As for me, I guess it was in the name of science...or something.
'04 Silverstone Enthu
A:
hmmm interesting post panman.
but all i can say is that if your cluster was dimming with the sub, then the ground kit didn't "fix" anything except a poor upfront installation. that should not happen with a properly installed sound system. period.
case and point, did the cluster lights dim before you put the sub in... or was it a factory sub install?
i see no dimming of the instrument cluster in my stock track, which does not come with the sub.
2003 350Z LeMans Sunset Track with Nav
No mods
A:
The main cause of the dimming is too much power draw without a capacitor. My system draws 800W total. I had to keep the bass setting at half due to the fact that everytime the sub peaked, I could see it affecting all of the interior lights. The dimming was also negligible, but it was annoying to watch my lights pulse with the sub.
I may keep the kit on because it does help smooth out the idle, but I'll have to keep playing with the kit. I want to see if it does back up the claim to 5-8hp. I'm curious as to how it will dyno.
'04 Silverstone Enthu
A:
Thanks for everyone input. After reading what panman1978 did and the result that he got. I'm not going to make my own kit. I'm just to dam lazy for that. I'm going to go out and buy the Sun Automobile Hyper Ground System. It is going for $115, $35 dollars more than what panman1978 built his kit for. I'll let you guy know how it goes after I get it on. Even if it does not work, I still like the way it look. But i'll let everyone know how it goes. Thanks again for everyone input.
A:
I'm Back,
The kit that i got for my Z is the Hyper Ground System from www.sunautomobile.com and this is what i found out about the kit before i got it.
Hyper Ground System is made to give your car better gound to bring out the maximum performance of your car. Hyper Ground System should gain in horsepower, torque, better gas mileage, better throttle response, and brighter lights. The cable in the Hyper Ground System is made of thick-gauge wire, 99.99% pure copper. It have 1477 strands per cable, with multiple-layered shielding. It also come in 6 different color to match your taste.
Also this is an intresting fax about the company that got me to buy. Sun Automobile is Sun Craft in Japan. They are an OEM company. The product have been out in Japan for over 5 years, and been in the US for the last 2 to 3 year. They make ground wire for some manufacture in the US, such as Mitsubishi, Nissan, and a few other one.
There another thing that got me very intrested was that the Cyber EVO from Japan that broke the time trial record is a Sun Automobile car. and in that car it have the Hyper Ground System and Hyper Voltage System. Those car they count the time to .000001 something of a second so they will not have parts in it that does nothing, so that mean this thing have to work for them to have it on that car.
That is what i found out about this company and that y i bought the Hyper Ground Kit.
I have it on the car now, but have not dyno it yet. I do feel alittle different and few some gain in the horsepower. It not much but for $115, i'm not looking for 40 horsepower or nothing. I really like the kit and i think you guy should look deeper into it. I think it worth my $115, even if it does not work it still look good in my engine bay. But for sure i do feel some different in the car, and it a good different.