General Chat
Q:
So our shop is looking into purchasing a dynomometer. I know pretty much nothing about them. I know Ive heard that Mustangs can hold load points but on Dynojets web site, they say theres can as well. Does anyone have any experience with either? I sent in some info to try and get some quotes to see what it would cost, and if it includes instalation or what? Anyone have any info?
Lots of Z cars, 1970's-1983's.
1977, Megasquirt, 12.8@ 105, 1.70 60 Foot, 2940 LBS. Blake Machine Co, Phx, AZ http://bandmzcars.com http://blakemachineprojects.com http://www.zselect.com
A:
Is your shop large enough to pay off a $70,000 to $150,000 loan? Thats what the dynos here in Minnesota cost. And at $50/pull it takes an awful long time to pay one off.
Talk to their sales reps, not a bunch of know-it-alls on a forum.
A:
Here's a very basic outline. Call them all and have them send you their literature (either snail mail or email-- I had them send it both ways). Make sure they send you pricing/lease info.
I was interested in Dynojet, Mustang, Superflow and Dynapack. Saw them all at the PRI show last month. I may go with the Dynapack.
The early Dynojets were all inertial --i.e.- given a known load, you can calculate horsepower/torque by how fast you can accelerate a known load.
This was great for baselining, but not good enough for mapping partial load conditions, etc...
Now most chassis dynamometers can be ordered with eddy current load absorbers (which allow you variable load to do steady state, run simulated 1/4 mile runs, etc...) -- much better for development work.
Most can be above ground or be installed flush if you own the facility. Some can be made mobil to take to events.
I like Dynapack because there is minimal inertial loading and it eliminates tire slip which typically occurs around the 400 hp mark on most roller dynos (Dynapack bolts to driven axles, eliminates wheels/tires as a variable).
From my experience, talking to vendors and current dyno owners, there is no perfect dyno for all purposes-- you gotta get what fits your needs/requirements.
A:
Rob at Zcar garage just purchased and is now running a dynojet i believe. I have a buddy that has a Mustang dyno and he paid for it in less than 6 months just running it only with no other maintenance work on cars.
People might charge $50 a pull as noted above but almost everyone i know including myself spent at least a couple hundred for my pulls in one day. They are a money maker if you have the location to have alot of traffic on them. If you are near a race track it will be paid for quickly.
A:
We own the property, so In the ground is how we wanna go. We want rollers directly in the ground. Well just pay for it, Wont need a loan. I sent dynojet and mustang request, well see how it turns out. Im exited I know that, We mainly want it for our own cars, and tuning. Wont make a tuner shop as thats not what we are.
Lots of Z cars, 1970's-1983's.
1977, Megasquirt, 12.8@ 105, 1.70 60 Foot, 2940 LBS. Blake Machine Co, Phx, AZ http://bandmzcars.com http://blakemachineprojects.com http://www.zselect.com
A:
Check out Superflow as well. I have had some experience with their test benches (not dynos), but they are pretty well built, and not too expensive. I talked to them at the automotive testing show in Novi, MI in November. Mustang looked nice, and sounded nice, but were really expensive for a play toy. I'm interested to see what they send you as quoted prices.
1972 240Z 4-speed, header, 3.54 R200, Crane XR-3000 Ignition, 280Z tach, Tokico Blue Struts, Suspension Tech Springs, Poly Bushings. Visit me at my website for your custom EFI & restored Datsun parts
A:
From what I've read the dynapacks are supposed to be the most accurate dyno on the market today. Usually the dynojet and mustang dynos read much higher hp numbers than the dynapacks, which some people like. However the numbers may not be as accurate as the lower numbers provided by the dynapack. The only thing I don't like about the dynapack is that it can be a pain in the ass to get the hubs on the dynapack and usually the customers car ends up getting rocked about on a hydrolic jack while they try and push in the hubs in to the dynapack. I've also heard that for tunning at various rpm points for stand alone fuel systems the dynapack is much better at it.
1977 280z: Intake, exhaust, high flow cat, header, euro damper, cam, MSD, adj. FPR, 3.7 lsd, F+R sway+strut bars, 2580lbs
1984 300zx: intake, exhuast, high flow cat, headers, JWT ECU, F+R sway bars, F strut bar
06 WRX TR
A:
There is a nice dyno from New Zeland that can hold the load points, and it attaches to the HUBS of the drive wheels, so with four power heads you can do AWD vehicles, as well.
This is what JWT has, and it was also the kind that showed up at the ZCCA Convention in Syracuse. I was impressed with the unit.
It takes out the tire as a reason for loss. Anyone who has had to load bags of lead shot or pea gravel into the spare tire well and then have people hanging on the back of the vehicle so the tires don't smoke on the rollers will appreciate that function.
With this unit, there is not any track restriction because the units roll, and the floor space it takes up when not being used is MINISCULE compared to one that is framed.
The guy at the ZCCA convention brought his out in the back of a van with a Tommy Gate on the back---that is how small it is! Horsepower absorbed is apparently pretty high---comparable to most out there.
I can send you some snaps of it, maybe you can get the name from them.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
First, son, you don't BUY IT OUTRIGHT!
You LEASE it for a set fee for the projected life of the equipment.
This keeps cashflows up, and you end up getting the equipment at the end of the lease on a $1 buyout option. This allows you the ability to hook the Manufacturer for updates, repairs, and assistance wile you pay on it.
You write the cost of the lease off against profits, so you don't pay taxes on it---far more cashflow smart than lumping that kind of money in a depreciating asset that you have to write off over FAR more years.
I know places that leased the LIGHTS in the shop, because it was a writeoff against taxable profits, instead of taking it as a capital expenditure.
Listening to a sales rep is about as useful as talking to guys on an online forum...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Kurt is talking about the same unit I am.
So much for Tyson and his commentary about online forums...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
JWT bills their dyno out to teams at $150+ an hour.
To get Jeff in, we had to be there and bolted on by 8am, because someone had booked the second half of the day---and they had commented they have been booked solid on the dyno all week, for months straight by teams doing development work.
One guy doing setup and running it (operator), and no cost for operation other than paying the lease---doesn't take long to figure out "if you build it, they will come!"
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Took 15 minutes to set up JeffP's car on the Dynapack, and that included them scratching their heads for a while because of his special lugs...
No strap down required.
MUCH quieter than a conventional tire-driven dyno, allows you to hear driveline and transmission problems.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Here's a link to the Dynapack site, supposed to be a very good tool and very accurate;
Dynapack
Tim
My 240Z
A:
For anyone comparing the hp ratings from one dyno to another, this is a futile comparison.
Dyno's aren't really for measuring hp, they're for tuning the efficiency of the air fuel mixture of the motor for maximum performance.
The hp/torque ratings should not be used as a basis for comparison other than on the same day with the same conditions to measure the positive or negative impact of a change to the system.
Trying to claim one is better because it gives higher or lower 'average' readings than another manufacturer is pointless and only valuable to people who need that kind of psychological affirmation.
But yes, it does make for entertaining conversation. ;)
Get the one that has the features you need, servers the purpose you want and is priced where you want it to be.
Also, if your shop is a licensed business, follow Tony's advice and LEASE!! $500 or $600 a month for a 5, 10 or 15 year lease saves you TAX dollars and preserves your capital = opportunities.
A basic Dynojet 224x will run about $30k and up to about $50k for one with options and it can be upgraded in the future to AWD. The new ones use 24" rollers and can do load testing.
72 WooHoo!! In good shape too...
72 Rolling Chassis (RB or LS1?)
80 NA SCCA ST2/CP (Car + Tree = Dead)
82 NA 3.0L the rust monster got it
82 ZXT 3.1L, 25psi! Hit in the right rear. ;(
83 parts car
92 TT Sold! ;(
02 Looking for an '03 made in '02
Post Edited (Jan 6, 4:58pm)
A:
Yea, we were hoping somewhere in the 50k range, Still havent heard back from either dyno manufactures I requested quotes from yet. I appreciate all your comments!
Lots of Z cars, 1970's-1983's.
1977, Megasquirt, 12.8@ 105, 1.70 60 Foot, 2940 LBS. Blake Machine Co, Phx, AZ http://bandmzcars.com http://blakemachineprojects.com http://www.zselect.com
A:
Brian, go with the unit Tony recommended. I have been on a few dyno's and that unit in my opinion is the best hands down. The fact that you bolt directly to the hubs makes it worth while in and of itself. The computer control is up to date, the wide band sensor is up to date.
In fact, I was talking to Tony about buying one for our use, but he did not want to invest the money, I could not fault him on that but it sure would be nice to have it.
My money is on the unit, and having used a few it in my opion is the best, and you dont need all the crap, under the floor, on top of the floor, rollers, any of that crap at all, and it is PORTABLE, now you CANT beat that. Hell you could pack it in a trailer, and take it to the track with you with a wide trailer, or pull it out and do tuning in the parking lot.
signed pseudotechnician view point, Sniper S^$ker, with girly arms : UCC 1-207
A:
"So much for Tyson and his commentary about online forums..."
Sorry, but I don't value what 99% of people online say. Hell the tech forums are proof that most people on the net dont know **** yet love to say that they do.
If I were shopping for a dyno, I'd visit with a few sales reps to see the pro/con of each unit.. I would also try to visit the shops that have some units to see how they work. Get some raw data and some hands on experience with them and then make the right purchase based upon what YOU have seen.
Pro of in floor dyno = space saved
Pro of in air dyno = If you dont have much room, just combine a 4 post lift with the dyno.
Pro of the hub style = no wheel spin on the dyno.
I wouldnt worry too much about wheel spin though, my buddies 800rwhp car stays planted on the dynojet rollers just fine.
Also if you are competing with other shops, you may just want to get the dyno that reads out higher. I know people in my town avoid a couple shops because "Their dyno reads lower than everyone else's". Its bullshit but it drives people to their compeditors shops quite often.
Post Edited (Jan 6, 7:34pm)
A:
"Pro of the hub style = no wheel spin on the dyno."
Also, fits in about just over 60 square feet in a corner when not being used.
Also, has no track restrictions---nothing is "too wide"
Can be bought as 2wd, or AWD system, and easily upgradable to awd from 2wd with just software and two more modules.
NO TIRE NOISE! Don't knock it till you try it, when you can hear tranny and driveline noises, you find problems you won't have found till an on-track failure.
Tire Balance is irrelevant and will not affect readings or stop a run because the thing is jumping.
easily moveable to oustide the shop, and transportable in a pickup truck. So if you want to go into a "take it to you" dyno service, there is no specialty equipment to buy.
No strapdown.
no cars jmping off the end of the dyno when or if a strap fails. (see it twice!)
Does not take up any appreciable floor space---it will fit in a ONE CAR GARAGE easily.
I don't listen to salesmen, I listen to customers. After the customers tell me about service and support, I'll make a decision about which salesmen to contact to see who can do the most for me.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Ive heard really good things about the Dyno Dynamics unit as well just for an alternative to the Dynapack. A guy i know (Drax240z over on Hybridz.org) recently got one for his shop and i think they're quite pleased with it. Check out....
http://zensport.ca
http://www.dyno.com.au/
L28+megasquirt+turbo=Huge sh!t eating grin (or at least thats what im hoping)
Post Edited (Jan 7, 1:26am)
A:
Bryan,
Contact RoostMonkey or GnoseZ. They are in the Z car club of new england and can put you in contact with a member who has a dyno like Tony mentions. Brad (Roost Monkey) used it a few time.
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A:
DIY Engine
You may also want to talk to an electrician. We use diesel generators at work for emergency power and they are basically a motor connected to an ac motor in reverse.
The power from the turning motor creates electrical power.
1 hp is ~ 750Watts so it would be easy to calibrate.
The power from the generator can be dumped into a test load (basically a big toaster). Power can be measured from current and voltage going into the test load.
This may be a a good addition as it can directly connect to a motor.
another suggestion
Rather than buying a dyno, you my want to partner with an existing dyno owner and have them set up near by or in your shop.
Injector Cleaning Service
THE FREE ONLINE INDEPENDENT Z STORE
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A:
How could you tell if a dyno is accurate or not? Also, the dynapack doesn't always read lower than a dynojet or Mustang dyno. Turbo Magazine did a test of 6 dynos on the same day on the same car and the dynapack had the 3rd highest reading. Plus, I don't see anywhere on the dynapack website that they factor in wind resistence like on the Mustang dyno. http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0306tur_dynodash/
A:
That really is the caddillac of dynos, that's what everyone had in Japan.
Kw is Kw, and it's very accurate. Then you convert Kw to Hp from there.
I was lead technician at a generation plant with stationary engines, each was rated at 1875Kw, but I modified them to run at a continous 2100Kw, and during cool periods during the winter, we saw steady readings when just me an certian operators were "making up production" lost for maintenance, of 2350+ Kw.
You figure it out---all the information was there. And what I did was fueling related only. Intercooler temperature adjustments, fuel flow adjustments, and then ceramic coating to increase turbo efficiency. 17 to 24PSI continuous, 24/7 baby! I mean we were running a 25% increase in power during cooler times (the generator winding temperatures limited us, not my engines!) intermittent, and 12% increase in performance continuously.
Not bad, especially for the revenue generation! Of coures I was paid highly and got large bonuses for this work....NOT!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
We paid around 30k for our Dynojet, but that was back in 96. I didn't realize it was that old now. We've never had a problem with it really. Only had to change the starter motor that gets the drums turning twice in 10 years. It uses a std. Dodge pickup gear reduction starter.
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