General Chat
Q:
Well First it was Jim Edwards. Good thing that was only 40 bucks.
Now It may be $110. Im not going to say who it is as I am going to be one more week patient. Going on 3 weeks now. First it was great comminucation now nothing.
Heck I have bought stuff on eBay over the holiday and have gotten it in record time.
Im curious if anyone wants to post their story.
Im going to try to get my money back tonight through paypal or at least file a complaint of unreceived goods. Thats how I made the payment but outside of eBay.
A:
Well, lesson #1: stop using Paypal and money orders.
A:
You can get your $$ back from the credit card company if you use a credit card as PayPal payment. Just call them & say you want to dispute the charge. They mail you a form & give you a credit as soon as the form is received back. That's what credit cards are for.
Anyone can drive a new car.
A:
hey Junkman. Thanks for the info. I did pay through paypal using my credit card.
A:
Paypal is great - most of us fund it with credit cards.
A:
And don't worry about PayPal's constant badgering to get 'verified'.
That's just so they can get ahold of your checking account.
There are a couple of things you can do to protect yourself from PayPal's unethical practices while using them as a buyer and seller.
1. Use a credit card is the number one way. Visa, Mastercard, Discover and Amex are WAY bigger than PayPal and can cripple them if they try to screw with them.
2. If you have to get 'verified', open a checking account exclusively for PayPal use and keep it separate from your 'real' checking account. I have mine setup so I can transfer any payments that come in to me out of my 'PayPal' checking account immediately. I never leave a balance for longer than 24 hours. They can't freeze something that isn't there.
Here's some information everyone should read before 'trusting' PayPal:
http://www.aboutpaypal.org/
http://www.paypalsucks.com/
http://www.ygoodman.com/ppwsj.html
http://paypalsuit.com/
Good luck with getting your purchase resolved.
Let us know if there's another sheister in our midst.
72 WooHoo!! In good shape too...
72 Rolling Chassis (RB or LS1?)
80 NA SCCA ST2/CP (Car + Tree = Dead)
82 NA 3.0L the rust monster got it
82 ZXT 3.1L, 25psi! Hit in the right rear. ;(
83 parts car
92 TT Sold! ;(
02 Looking for an '03 made in '02
A:
Having a "Sweeper Account" is critical for that purpose. Somehow my purchase limit is well over several thousand dollars, so I doubt I will ever "need" to be a "verified" member.
I use my card. i don't want to be bothered with yet ANOTHER specialized account!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Paypal makes buying on ebay real easy, but I'm kinda weiry of it so I never sell with it. I have mine set up through my visa check card, I"m seriously considering closing my pay pal account.
---
Justin T
72 240Z L28, 5-speed
77 280Z 5-speed (t-boned 8-25-04)
80 280ZX automatic(retired)
A:
"visa check card"
That is NOT a credit card. That is still like being connected to your checking account! If there is a dispute, they can HOLD your money till it's resolved, and THEN return it to you. That can be months!
With Credit Cards, they are holding THEIR money. Big difference. Sure they still charge you interest on the amount while in limbo, but if you are vindicated, that money is reapplied towards your balance, so you are out nothing!
Check Cards are a scam by banks to generate fees. They are convienient as hell, but if you simply pay your credit card bill monthly, there is no advantage to using a check card over a credit card. Matter of fact, credit cards have several important advantages.
Now, pay your credit card over the phone with your check card, and it gets credited immediately, no waiting for the mail, or the games they play with posting the payment for your account to garner the maximum amount of interest or penalty.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
As far as I know my check card is free, I've used it for everything in the past year and its never cost me anything. It's also my debit card. Possibly being connected to my accound is the reason I'm thinking about closing it. BUT I didnt have to verify anything, so maybe thats a good thing?
---
Justin T
72 240Z L28, 5-speed
77 280Z 5-speed (t-boned 8-25-04)
80 280ZX automatic(retired)
A:
you know there is z-bay.com , its where you put your negative feedback towards people who sell z stuff , check it out.
A:
What I was saying was in case of a dispute with a check card, or debit card, they hold YOUR money till it's over, and then return it to your account. Probably not a biggie if you only bought a $7part, but could be problems if it was like $300.
On a credit card, if you have a dispute, the money that is held is the CREDIT CARD COMPANY's. Bigg difference there!
Your money held, versus THEIR money held.
The difference between the two is that on a credit car dispute, they will charge you interest during the dispute time. If they determine you are in the right, the money you paid them in interest is allocated toward your outstanding bill. If it goes against you, then they ultimately charge you.
Now, you can NOT pay the interest, but then they hit you with penalties.
Either way, they win. But with the money being theirs, the interest you pay to a credit card company is far less than what you could equivalently loose in interest or usage while a Debit Card company holds your money to the end of the dispute.
It may not have been clear. The charges for interest was for Credit Cards during a charge dispute.
For larger items, I will always buy using credit card, and pay the bill at months end. The benefits I get from using the card outweigh paying cash, or the downsides of what could happen with access to the checking account card.
Then, like I said, paying your credit card bill with your debit/check card has advantages. That's about all I use my debit/check card for: Electronic payment of my other bills, simply because I can do it over the phone anytime.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
What Tony is saying is that a 'Debit' card is really just a convenient way to write checks directly out of your account and YES, Visa and MasterCard get paid a percentage of EVERY transaction by the SELLER. You don't get charged for it's use, because they are making a crap load of money on the fees they charge the seller to use their 'service'.
That's why some vendors charge an extra percentage or two if you use a credit card vs. cash. This is to cover the profit they LOOSE when someone uses a credit card to pay.
The problem with the debit card is that if you have a dispute on a $500 item, they WITHDRAW $500 from your checking account until the matter is resolved!
With a credit card, there is no 'cash' bank account linked to the card and they can't take YOUR money. They simply reduce your available credit by $500 until the issue is resolved.
Now, can you survive your $5000 credit card limit being reduced to $4500 for a couple of months?
Can you survive your CHECKING account being short $500 for a couple of months?
In other words, debit cards have many of the disadvantages of carrying cash with few of the protections you get with a 'real' credit card.
72 WooHoo!! In good shape too...
72 Rolling Chassis (RB or LS1?)
80 NA SCCA ST2/CP (Car + Tree = Dead)
82 NA 3.0L the rust monster got it
82 ZXT 3.1L, 25psi! Hit in the right rear. ;(
83 parts car
92 TT Sold! ;(
02 Looking for an '03 made in '02
A:
I see what your saying now. I'll NEVER buy anything expensive through pay-pal, to date the most expensive thing I've bought was $25. What do you think, is it safe for small buys like that?
---
Justin T
72 240Z L28, 5-speed
77 280Z 5-speed (t-boned 8-25-04)
80 280ZX automatic(retired)
A:
For those who don't know. *ANYTIME* there is a dispute regarding *ANY* transaction with a legitimate financial institution (paypal isn't a legitimate financial institution), they are *LEGALLY* required to put the funds back into your account until they can respond with an explanation as to why the charge is correct, at that point that can recharge it to your account. This applies to *ANY* account overdraft checking and credit/debit. You get the exact same protection against disputes with credit and debit cards. Granted a few years ago it was different. But now debit cards offer the same $50 fraud protection as credit cards. Directly from the back of my bank statement (and my bank sucks):
"We will investigate your complaint and will correct any error promptly.If we take more than 10 business days, we will credit your account for the amount you believe is in error."
The Fair Credit Billing Act (this applies to overdraft checking accounts also)
The lawyer way
http://www.bcsalliance.com/creditcards_fcba.html
So the rest of us can understand
http://onestopcreditreport.com/billing_dispute_and_credit/
An excellent story as how to handle something like this
http://www.bcsalliance.com/creditcards_disputes_prov.html
While you may believe your paying less with your credit card remember this, your paying interest, lots of it, so a debit card is much cheaper.
'60 Chevrolet Apache 10 235cid Stovebolt 6
'79 N/A MT (My Dad's but I drive it)
'81 Turbo (Mine)
FSM: $60
Shop Manual: $20
Reading the manual: Priceless
A:
WW is hitting what I am driving at right on the head!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
In many cases, there is only a stipulation that they will replace the money to your account, but no timetable for doing so!
I will still use my credit card, as the warranty protection and other accounting benefits afforded by it outweigh any reason to use my ATM/Debit card for a similar purchase.
Read your DIRECT DEPOSIT form at work closely, too!
At one business, I did not take Direct Deposit (the first time since using it uninterrupted since 1984! ****, almost 20 years by that point!) because they had a clause in there about maing deposits AND WITHDRAWLS from the account I supplied.
NO WAY IN HELL was I trusting those unscrupulous bastards with that kind of power! Many agreements through third party payroll services are deposit only, and any mistakes are taken out of subsequent paychecks.
NOT making a withdrawl from the checking account because they misfigured my overtime!!!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
http://www.e-gold.com
Post Edited (Jan 5, 6:02am)
A:
I don't use a check in public with a merchant other than phone company & other utilities. It's either cash or credit card. The exception would be for items say a car or house that was over the card limit. I NEVER give a credit card company verbal access to a bank account. If CC company charges a fee or interest because they didn't credit my account in time, a conversation with a supervisor will have the charge removed. One time I had to talk to 3 supervisors the last 1 in India, but the charge was credited back on the next statement. Gotta be careful when using cash because there is no recourse but... cash brings discounts.
Anyone can drive a new car.
A:
I agree with the suject relating to checks and cash. I never write checks anymore and I use a card werever I can because of the paper trail, eventhough I know I have to pay more. But if a company is slow to put money back in your account in regards to a dispute tell them they're in violation of the The Fair Credit Billing Act and you'll seek damages if they do not follow the law, you'd be amazed how fast you'll get your money. The can only take the money out of an account once they give a reason for a charge being correct, if they don't take them to small claims court and get your money back. The problem with credit cards is that it is too easy to dispute a charge and it causes merchants a lot of headaches when they recieve a chargeback for a legitimate charge I think this is what H4 is refering to. This might be changing in the future. Remember they are required by law to put the amount back in your account, if they don't you can legally overdraft the account by the amount in dispute and they cannot charge overdraft fees. While it can be a headache you have to go through the same process with a credit card.
One important thing is that you NEVER company access to an account in another company except when setting up automatic payments, that can cause huge headaches. And NEVER sign up for something free without reading the fine print, you WILL be charged for something, you just have to figure out where.
'60 Chevrolet Apache 10 235cid Stovebolt 6
'79 N/A MT (My Dad's but I drive it)
'81 Turbo (Mine)
FSM: $60
Shop Manual: $20
Reading the manual: Priceless
A:
"This might be changing in the future. Remember they are required by law to put the amount back in your account, if they don't you can legally overdraft the account by the amount in dispute and they cannot charge overdraft fees."
You charge something, they can debit your account.
You are out that money immediately.
You then dispute the charge.
OK, now they delay a bit (say a few days, that's easy enough---I don't recall a specific timeframe stated, but 72 hours or three business days sounds reasonable) and make money on it off "the float"
So you have something immediately clear your account resulting in an overdraft---SURE A SH*T your BANK can charge you overdraft fees! AND THEY WILL because your account is NSF!
THIS is why I will not use DEBIT cards. That three day float can cost you money BIGTIME! Wells Fargo for instance will hit you with an overdraft fee for EVERY DEBIT ACTIVITY during the NSF Period, REGARDLESS THE AMOUNT!
So you get a $6 fee for an overdraft of .25. And if you are buying your groceries or sodas and burgers with your debit card, then you pay for it and get hit with another $6 charge.
The debit cards have made for VERY POOR CONSUMERS because it's REALLY IS a check, but RARELY does anybody track their usage like a CHECK.
As a check user, I NEVER OVERDRAFTED. Not once.
But when those check cards came out---it was soooo easy for people to use it on "the small stuff" that problems can arise.
And for the ONE person out of 10,000 that calls and complains (like Junkman says) there are 9,999 that will not, and they can pocket those fees at the bank.
Like I said, the Debit card is being used by banks as a FEE REVENUE GENERATION SOURCE. The incidence of "convienience overdrafts" has SKYROCKETED since their introduction...
No thank you. I will use my Credit Card, and pay the bill at the end of the month. With my check card, over the phone, or via an electronic funds transfer.
I use my Debit card as an ATM card, and take out cash---but DETEST using it for small purchases because of the accounting headache.
With a Credit Card, all the accounting and tracking is done to me, I simply pay the statement and then if there are 10 transactions against my checking account every month, it's a big thing.
It allows me, for instance, to ask the bank "Why was 3 dollars taken out of my savings account last month? it's on my statement, but there is no explanation---I see no overdrafts, and there are only 3 checks and 7 Electronic Debits--WTF?"
It is now down to the point where I seriously might consider moving my checking to a Money Market Account because it lets my operating capital accrue interest, and I still can make TEN checks a month out of it---and unlimited eletronic transfers. Now that I am to that point, it is probably what I will do, and be done with conventional "FEE FOR SERVICE" banks.
Skimming bastards.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Tony is right about the direct deposit. Authorizing direct deposit generally means authorizing 'direct withdrawl'. Only for correcting financial errors of course!
I do have direct deposit, but it goes into a sweep account so there's nothing there for them to 'correct' if they try.
I then pay all my bills from another account where I initiate the payment. No automatic payments from the creditor or biller. I do setup 'scheduled' payments but they are all initiated on my end.
Which reminds me, I need to go setup a new Money Market account for my newest daughter with all her 'take' from Christmas!
I think I've got about 8 different accounts now!
72 WooHoo!! In good shape too...
72 Rolling Chassis (RB or LS1?)
80 NA SCCA ST2/CP (Car + Tree = Dead)
82 NA 3.0L the rust monster got it
82 ZXT 3.1L, 25psi! Hit in the right rear. ;(
83 parts car
92 TT Sold! ;(
02 Looking for an '03 made in '02
A:
All I have to say is open a checking account with next to nothing in it with out the ability to over draft. My Washington Mutual account is setup for that exact purpose. Keeps utilities from double dipping, online fraud scams taking the number and running with it, and Paypal from taking money they are not owed.
Progress:
Z32 Had to sell for DD 06 Sentra :(
S30 one of these days I will get around to putting it all back together.
A:
I used my Sears card when I trid to make a purchase for a friend on E-bay and the merchant was a "No Show" Paypal gave me this,"Sorry Pal, but it's been longer than 4 weeks CRAP." After calling lot of times he told me I could use my consumer rights and try that way. WAY SUCCESSFUL! Sears sent me this form, I talked to the nice sears lady...and I got back every penny. It took a little while, but I didn't get hosed! NK
Norman Krell
A:
i've been a verified paypal user for about 6 years. never had any problems with them...
however, i have gotten several scam emails from people claiming to be paypal directing me to a bogus website on which they want me to verify or change my password.