General Chat
Q:
I’ve been patiently waiting the return of the clear euro front turn signal lenses. Well it looks like Too Intense Restorations is finally going to start selling these again. They are retooled pieces that are as close to the original Nissan units as they could make w/o infringing on copy write or patents.
$179.86 per set!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsun-240Z-Front-Euro-Clear-Signal-Light-Lens-Set-NEW_W0QQitemZ4594393664QQcategoryZ46093QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Post Edited (Dec 1, 1:37pm)
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you can get a whole parts car for that! lol...
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Perhaps the set up costs are high & have to be amortised over a few sets. At least they pay shipping. Better than getting kissed.
Anyone can drive a new car.
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how bout klearz? weren't they gonna make some?
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I'm waiting for the return of their fender mirrors. I can't tint my windows without having two mirrors on my 240Z!
1971 240Z
"Fear is exciting for me." -Ayrton Senna
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Limited production stuff is expensive. Even at $180 a set Troy may never make back the tooling costs most of the offshore companies charge.
If you really want them be happy they are avilable at whatever cost.
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tooling?
i can make a clear set just by using one of the old lenses, 1 pound of modeling clay, 1 can of "pam" and a quart of fast dry acrylic for about $30 (and an hour of fiddling around).
no offshore company or expensive tooling needed...
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tkr514, I'll take a set
77 260Z Rat Rod
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OK, then where does the line form for your $30 Clear Lenses that are identical to Nissan Quality, Fit, and Finish.
I want 6 sets.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
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Totally not worth it...
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
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http://klearz.com/products.html
$25 each at klearz for the same thing, no easy way to say it "Too Intense Restorations" are scammers not to mention bullshit artists.
"This is an Exclusive item only from Too Intense Restoration...."
Yeah real exclusive jackasses...
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
Post Edited (Dec 1, 4:17pm)
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no, the klearz are $25 for a pair of clear lenses - i know, i bought some. But they are far from perfect Nissan quality. Lots of small little defects - and one of them is a little blurry. But they still look great, especially for a total of $50 for all 4.
1980 280zx w/L28ET MSnS-Extra, framerails are toast...
1982 280zx...newest acquisition...
1983 Maxima - just sits in the driveway these days...
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I would of sent them back if that's the case, shouldnt have any defects... In any case, I'd steer clear of Too Intense Restorations, they're obviously full of sh!t.
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
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"tooling?
i can make a clear set just by using one of the old lenses, 1 pound of modeling clay, 1 can of "pam" and a quart of fast dry acrylic for about $30 (and an hour of fiddling around). "
Then I guess I wasted all those years in college taking thermoform and thermoset plastics classes. You could have saved the OE's millions! I don't know if the "fiddling" would make for timely deliveries in quantities or QC acceptance.
Making one set by pour and cure, maybe. Making a production run, doubtful.
I wonder if Pam is ISO approved? We used a Dupont release, but is wasn't butter flavor.
The Klearz link is for ZX not 240. This is the referenced thread;
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Klearz could do them, I doubt theres much difference, someone would just have to send in base set so they can make mould. If people want to pay almost $200 for 10$ worth of plastic then I'm sure they'll find your post very useful. But for people with common sense I'm sure it would be far better off to send klearz a set to make and get all 4 for only $50.
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
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"... i know, i bought some. But they are far from perfect Nissan quality. Lots of small little defects - and one of them is a little blurry..."
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People here are such cheapasses it's not funy. Get someone who supports the early cars with QUALITY parts that arent "funny and fogged" and they lambaste them for charging enough to keep themself in business.
I'm waiting for a set of those $30 one from the loudmouth above....
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
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Very seriously (no flame ) h4lights & tkr514 - do you guys really know how to make new lenses?
I ask because I would love to find out if the clear but old spider cracked plastic lenses on our 1956 Dodge (hood and trunk) covers the dodge shield emblem.
Also the red trunk Buick emblem on the 1941 is missing a piece of the plastic.
Sooo -if you guys could make this stuff cheaper than the NOS collector prices - then you may have a business future.
I'd just like to know the proper way to do it yourself as I'm sure a one of project would be too expensive and time consuming to be profitable but as a project may be worth it to me or others.
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
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"... i know, i bought some. But they are far from perfect Nissan quality. Lots of small little defects - and one of them is a little blurry..."
I personally would of sent them back if I got them like that as I said, I have seen photos of their lenses which look just as good as the photo up there from Too Intense Restorations. In any case $175 a set is far too much, that's a joke. There's no way it would cost half that to produce them, im no plastic expert but surely it couldnt cost that much.
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
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Tony_D,
Damn right i can make a set if i wanted funky clear lenses of high quality marker lenses for $30. No way in hell would i produce them and sell them for that low. That would be like me spending $8 for a bottle of polish and people asking me "hey, sell me that polished valve cover for $8. That's fkin stupid tony.
the market for those lenses is limited to people that have no tallent or taste but too much cash.
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You could do it for that much.
I want 6 sets.
Simple fact is you will not make Nissan Optical Quality lenses as simply as you state. As H4 says, maybe ONE set...but in production there will not be that kind of assembly technique.
The point was Troy at Too Intense has actual Tooling Cost Amortization to deal with (actually his SUPPLIER does---someone I also know) whereas others apparently are doing it for much less----uh... with the expected results.
High Quality rarely comes at a cheap cost on a finished plastic product. You make some good dies for proper injection moulded stuff, and you will have some costs. Husky Injection Molders don't just take one set of dies, either!
Then you get into what they are producing them from...Acrylic, PET, you name it they can do it. Sure you can make a cheap resin cast knockoff.
But making a quality part in production will not be cheap---at least if you want to stay in business for very long.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
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Cal Clark of Clarks Corvair Parts in Shelburne Falls MA makes all sorts of QUALITY plastic reproductions of tail lights for Corvairs. Optically identical to the original GM parts. Reasonably priced, too. But he buys like 1000 at a time for a decent production run, and may sit on inventory for years till exhausted, then rerun it, and up the price accordingly.
The key to resin casing one-off parts is getting someone with a decent original (or NOS piece) to let you "use it" for the molds. You can run a few off for "daily use" and then put the real deal in for the "Concours Car Show"...
I tell ya, been in the car biz for a long time---it's funny to watch the Z-Car Noobs go through what everybody else has gone through. Except this lot seems to winge about it a bit louder than past people I've been associated with!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
damn tony, i said i could do it for that much if i wanted it on my car. i never said that i would produce them for that much because obviously if i wanted to customize my car i will never factor in time spent. yes, i can make it from a mold, or stereo lithography, or lost wax mold or other stuff i have access to on a daily basis. quality will be the same as nissan dimensionally (and obviously any optical equivalence is totally irrelevant).
that is what makes a z great, people spending time to repair or customize their cars with their own time and energies and never factoring in the time needed to do it right.
i would argue that clear side lenses "product" is not a great thing to "manufacture" for a z. i would rather have people manufacture the basics that are no longer in production but needed by the community. having these items instead of "pimp my ride" add ons.
yes, i can produce a one-off set of i wanted one that would be low cost for me. if you want one, do it your damn self or pay through the nose for one that someone else makes.
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"i would argue that clear side lenses "product" is not a great thing to "manufacture" for a z. i would rather have people manufacture the basics that are no longer in production but needed by the community. having these items instead of "pimp my ride" add ons."
Comprehension? Comprehension?
I'm the one with a comprehension problem???????
Uh, dude, we AREN'T talking about clear SIDE MARKER LENSES, we are talking about a NLA NISSAN PRODUCT that was an OEM fittment for cars outside the US Market. They are TURN SIGNALS, not freaking appearance sidemarker light covers!
Uh, that, my dear sir, is exactly what "basics no longer in production but needed by the community"
I may not NEED 6 sets, but I do most definately NEED two sets as the sets in my Fairlady Z are scratched up in one case, and cracked (and repaired) in the other. Given projected street accidents I could reasonably justify a "need" for FOUR sets in that case.
So FOR ME, it's a BASIC PRODUCT (signal light lens) that is NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION, and is NO LONGER AVAILABLE THROUGH NORMAL DISTRIBUTION.
Do you even READ the posts before you spout off like an assclown, or does this give you some sort of pleasure? You can make em for $30, you can throw a barb at someone who is REALLY TRULY MANUFACTURING OEM QUALITY PARTS, and then when asked to put up, you change the subject or start throwing shite up in the air to obscure the fact you stepped in a pile of your own debris.
It's put up or SHUT UP time for your tkr. Do one or the other, and in hte meantime brush up on your COMPREHENSION and READING skills, they obviously are sorely lacking in your case!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
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talk about an assclown....you need put up or shut up. they have a product, you have a need, you buy those at that price and e-mail me the receipt to show that you support their effort.
waiting.....
79 280ZX -The best selling sports car of all time
Post Edited (Dec 1, 8:19pm)
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lol I can see this thread being ruined now by Tony D's book length posts and whomever else he is arguing with "again"
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
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Ruined? You kidding?
I just sit back and imagine what Mrs. Tond_D has to endure:
Mrs. Tony_D: I made you dinner and...
Tony_D: That's NOT DINNER!
Mrs. Tony_D: I cooked some..
Tony_D: I KNOW what DINNER IS, you can't cook!
Mrs. Tony_D: But it's steak and..
Tony_D: YOU NEVER got a degree in Nutritional Science so you have no clue about the subject so STFU!
Mrs. Tony_D: <leaves the room>
Tony_D: HEY!!! this stuff you said was "dinner" is COLD!!!!! See, I'm right!
FACT: On Average, a 4.39% of his dinners are dumped in the can . So don't say it never happens to Tony
Post Edited (Dec 1, 11:26pm)
A:
#1 What about remoulding old (1956) clear plastic?
#2 What about adding a dark red plastic to an older (1941) piece?
#3 I don't think Tony misses any meals so not so good example.
#4 In my experience, the most opinionated and vocal husbands always get the last word at home - "Yes Dear!".
I'll bet Tony D. is just a closet teddy bear and probabally just uses his alter ego on-line. I could be wrong.
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
A:
Erzelda/Ed: If you are planning to duplicate those lenses yourself check out;
http://www.alumilite.com
These folks can help you and are good with the hobbyist.
BTW: If you want good results with clear, ie. no bubbles, no haze, good fitment, then pressure casting is the way to go. Here's a 'How To' link at alumilite on the subject;
http://www.alumilite.com/howto.cfm?ID=18
Realize this is for one-off / small run stuff and it take lots of practice to get it right.
Here's an interesting post from an engineering associate at another forum on OE applications;
"toolman801 (Mechanical)
19 Jun 05 21:48
As a tooling engineer for a major automotive supplier in headlamps, I have order(ed) moulds for this use that costs "Prototypes" = $85,000.00 and production tooling costing over $525,000.00 for a 2 cavity mould.
All headlamps and taillamps have UV protection additive put into the material before molding.
Even the prototype tooling for the lense moulds are made via the "Growing of the Pins" type tooling.
Now if you are looking at a lense to go on a garden tractor or such, then a "CUT" tool either alum. or steel can be used. You will still need to put the UV additive into the molding process or else the lense will turn yellow with time."
http://www.eng-tips.com
The problem with doing this limited production for a living, even a sideline business, is cost of time. Materials are relatively cheap. Getting excellent examples to produce molds can be difficult as well. I have a friend that reproduces tail light lenses for older european imports using alumilites/hobbyist methods. He charges as much or more than NOS because of the time necessary to produce.
Also, if you read Too Intense's sales information at Ebay, the reproductions are slightly different than OE. Some OE folks will not give releases to you to reproduce their stuff even if out of production themselves,
Potential liability problems. (With lenses DOT / NHTSA and state and local agencies enforcing safety / lighting standards).
Post Edited (Dec 2, 7:04am)
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"Very seriously (no flame ) h4lights & tkr514 - do you guys really know how to make new lenses?"
if i needed them, i would make them for myself instead of paying that.
if i want just wanted a lens for my daily driver, just the clay block trick is faster and "good enough". no daily driver (as tony d demonstrates since he won't buy them for his need either) would ever spring that much money for that particular reproduction part.
if i wanted oem concourse "never drive the car" show quality perfect type parts, i have access to a stereo lithography 3-d printer that "prints" plastic. I could use clear but better yet just print a block for molding the part in about 8 hours of build time and then tank it overnight to remove the water soluable support material.
since damn few people have z's as show cars, function is more important to most of us than perfection. that is why i said that the parts are not a real support for the z "community". just like tony d, we (the z community) won't buy at those prices.
79 280ZX -The best selling sports car of all time
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Suddenly I remember why I don't hang out here much.
I'm trying to arrange a group buy over at Hybridz. If interested see Group Buy section at HybridZ.org
BTW I have "close" to a show quality Z car (original Scarab #154) which I'm wanting these lenses for. I also have a 73 that is my "project" car which still needs paint.
Hell all I was trying to do was show that a NLA part has become avalible again through a parts vendor dedicated to Z cars.
Sorry to didn't mean to start a flame war over a simple item.
Later guys and gals.
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"Suddenly I remember why I don't hang out here much. "
suddenly i realized that you have never posted here before.
best way to start a lively debate here is mention premium pricing.
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I've been here before user name dsommer.
I've been active on the z car scene for a bit over 5 years now, mainly over at HybridZ.
Some how my user id dsommer and my e-mail/password wouldn't match up so I just re-registered using Scarab Z.
Not trying to start a flame war by any means.
d
Post Edited (Dec 2, 8:45am)
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SA
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I went by Troy's this morning and picked up my two sets.
I'll see what your group buy pricing ends up being, had I know you were working in that area, I would have asked Troy about it when I saw him.
Feel free to e-mail me, and I can go down and have a face-to-face with him on your buyers group behalf.
I don't think the pricing is outrageous, only Tkr/Hybrid do, along with Mr Z31. Hell you would have thought your title line was "Z31's Suck!"
Funny how people are so eager to tear down someone's genuine efforts to bring quality parts to market for a saleable price---so eager to tear down and impugn them. Like I said before, the reason I don't do work on other people's cars for money is because by and large most of the people on these forums are Bottom Feeders and won't spend a dime to further the cause of anything other than themselves...
I'll check it out at HZ, you know my tag there.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
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Amen.
Lots of hating going on here.
tkr514 just a question what do you drive as far as a Z? Just wondering. Pics?
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Uhoh I violated rule #10
ZCAR.COM prohibits GROUP PURCHASES. Please do not organize nor refer to any such purchase arrangements in your posts.
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tonyD, sorry you think that i am knocking the vendor. i'm not doing that at all. they can make and sell all they want. good for them, good for anyone that wants them.
you over estimate me if you think that i can discourage anyone that wants to make and sell stuff. sellers listen to buyers, not to non-buyers.
since this is a "hobby", a lot of peopel make their own stuff for the fun of it. and yes, i have been making some plastic parts for the fun of it and encourage other hobyists to give it a try.
the only venom in this hobby is people discouraging others from even trying to have fun and trying things for themselves. crap like "if you can't do it absolutely perfectly then stfu" does not promote the fun of this hobby.
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"tooling?
i can make a clear set just by using one of the old lenses, 1 pound of modeling clay, 1 can of "pam" and a quart of fast dry acrylic for about $30 (and an hour of fiddling around).
no offshore company or expensive tooling needed..."
That minimizes the development of the product---especially since you are comparing apples to oranges!
It is uncalled for---frankly, most people here are afraid to do ANYTHING to their car for fear of something getting screwed up, the ONLY alternative that massive group has is VENDORS who bring this stuff to market.
I have cans and cans of Urethane out back, you don't see me telling people I would rather cast my own bushings (or turn them out of Delrin on my lathe)... Or for that matter telling them I can rebond my pulleys (been there, done that), or manufacture my own engine mounts...
Some stuff is better left to E-MAIL.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
affraid? man, there is no harm or that much cost in trying. that is what is so fun about a "peoples" sports car, you can experiment without fear (unlike a new ferarri). just because "i" want to try it does not minimize either nissan or a 3rd party parts supplier whatsoever. and just because i painted my car for $300 does not mean that i am willing to paint tony_d's for $300 or in any way will threaten a shop that charge $3,000.
this spring i'll try my hand at re-plating a lot of metal pieces. just don't tell me that if the pieces are not perfect oem color match that it's not worth the experience.
79 280ZX -The best selling sports car of all time
Post Edited (Dec 2, 2:39pm)