General Chat
Q:
A while back some of you may remember that I got a ticket for loud exhaust. The cop got on his hands and knees (stupid of him because I could have been all criminal-like and taken off), and made note of the fact of the absense of my catalyst. This earned me a "defective equipment" violation. i could do one of two things: 1.) Say I put it in first instead of third which revved it too high; or 2.) Fight it with the fact that my car was never manufactured with a cat in the first place. Since he didn't mention my muffler I was going to keep my mouth shut about that. If I do choose the 2nd choice should I take pics of my car, the Non-Catalyst plate under the hood and in the door along with the VIN and bring my registration so they will know that I'm not showing them pictures of two different cars?
1976 280Z
Draw-Through Turbo, 10 PSI, 4 Bbl Holley, E88, L28 (Flat), 10:1 CR, 5 Spd
1974 Corvette Stingray:
350, 400 Automatic, T-Tops, 8.5:1 CR, 78,000 Miles
1994 Acura Integra:
1.8L, 5 Spd, 189,000 and Counting!
A:
If the ticket is for LOUDNESS, your guilty as hell.
If it's for a missing catalytic, your innocent.
What is the ticket for?
Post Edited (Nov 30, 8:17pm)
A:
Sucks, seems like they just want to squeeze a little cash out of you.
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1982 280zx
A:
im confused- how does choice 1 help you fight this court appearance?
And would revving your engine higher in 1st gear make it quieter? isnt that what the ticket was for- loud exhaust?
Pay the ticket or hire a good lawyer - you have no chance of beating this ticket on your own.
____________________________________
1980 280ZX coupe
2001 maxima
1994 F150 4x4 van works custom truck
170000 and never needed mech repairs
1996 ford explorer -they cant all be good
A:
Unless this is actual traffic court, with a judge, there are no lawyers aloud before a magistrate (sp?) in Michigan. Not to mention it would be a waste of money. You can beat this. It depends on exactly what the ticket was for. If it was for loud exhaust your probably going to pay something, being HONEST and chating with the magistrate will do you good..
Show up well dressed and be polite, just ignore the police officer and explain to the magistrate your story. Dont use phrases like "I dont diserve(because you do) a loud noise ticket" or "this is ridiculous or stupid" or anything like that. Tell him exactly what your car is, why is it louder than others, why it sticks out (even when not running), and that it is only driven months out of the year. If you can get out with just fines, you would be better than to have that exhaust replaced, that is a NICE system.
If it is for no cat. prove that your car didnt come with one (the age should just about tell them that), and be on your way.
Good luck!
Jason:
'77 280zT coupe: 8.8:1, flat tops, .030 over, Msd-6al, 60mm tb, cold air, 2.5" exhaust and DP, no cat, GReddy type RS BOV, medium intercooler
A:
it was for defective equipment, due to the fact i have no cat
1976 280Z
Draw-Through Turbo, 10 PSI, 4 Bbl Holley, E88, L28 (Flat), 10:1 CR, 5 Spd
1974 Corvette Stingray:
350, 400 Automatic, T-Tops, 8.5:1 CR, 78,000 Miles
1994 Acura Integra:
1.8L, 5 Spd, 189,000 and Counting!
A:
Dress nice, take pics, of you plate with the date of manufacturing and the non-catylyst part and then just dont act like an idiot and speak calm and you should win, easy as that.
A:
If the ticket is for defective equipment because the officer noted a missing catalytic converter, then you are innocent.
Don't be a jackass and try to lie and make crap up. Judges have an acute sense for lies. Just say exactly what happened.
1971 240Z
"Fear is exciting for me." -Ayrton Senna
A:
Check your local laws and CITE THE LAW by section to the magistrate, and indicate the evidence that you were not required to have one. Show documentation that your vehicle was not manufactured with one.
The only safe defense is facts that fall within the law.
A:
Tell him the truth. The car was not made with a catalytic converter. Therefore due to federal regulations it would be illegal to put one on (I'm not making this up, it's true). Starting in 75 all Cali Zs needed a cat. Starting in 80 the rest of them needed it. Take an FSM with a VIN breakdown and Emission equipment list. Much better to make someone look like a dumbass politely than being loud and rude.
'60 Chevrolet Apache 10 235cid Stovebolt 6
'79 N/A MT (My Dad's but I drive it)
'81 Turbo (Mine)
FSM: $60
Shop Manual: $20
Reading the manual: Priceless
A:
Dont know what state you are in but her in California it is NOT against the law to have a modified exhaust that is LOUDER than stock. As long as it is 95 or less decibles it is perfectly legal. I just fought a modified exhaust/too loud in court last month and won easily as i pointed the facts out to the judge it is not against the law to modify an exhaust for more noise as long as the actual smog parts are not removed such as a converter.
Cops specifically look for big pipe tips and then try and nail you on the loudness and they are getting smarter knowing their modded exhaust tickets are being fought and thrown out in court so now they are going for the equipment violations instead like happenned to you. he probably figured you would win on the loudness in court since he cant leagally deternine what your decibles are in person with his ear.
Cops here do not carry decible meters for knowing how loud the exhaust is so they wrtite a ticket and try and force you to take it to a referee station to be checked (which i didnt even do).
Once you take it in to a referee station they will check EVERYTHING on the car including under the hood powertrain wise and they can and will nail you on other mods if they can so watch out for that bs.
Post Edited (Dec 1, 12:29am)
A:
Keep getting the court date reset for a later date, say in a month or so, then have it reset again, after a couple of resets the cop wont show up.
You Win
Tell them your doing research on the car in question, on if your equipment
was tampered with, or was orginally installed or not, and you will need a little more time to make your case in court, due to the age and model.
Any Judge will allow you more time to make your case, in fact if he didnt, it gives you a reason for a appeal. ( Ie..get your hard earned money back )
And alot more time in court, and Judges like to play golf 1st, work 2nd.
But really its a non moving violation (dosent raise you Ins) rates.
Get a cat and gut it out, and install, take a good picture of you holding a newspaper with the date, bring a bunch of kids, and a wife for a day, and plead insanity..throw yourself on the court, try to avoid the front row of chairs.they always get you. with the kids yelling, daddy,daddy dont go away (they will have to practice).......Any Judge will fine you then suspend the fine. Then ask you to get some help.
Pay the fine.....your guilty !!!!!!!!!!! :)
82zxt /5sp /Fsm /Tools /Med Knowledge /Tampa /And a little Learned Luck.
A:
"As long as it is 95 or less decibles it is perfectly legal", so in Cal, the cops
carry DB Meters?, and if yes.where you they measure, at what distance
and at what rpm range. Interesting..even ambiant noise will effect a
meter. Seems like it would be easy to fight in court.
Gonna have to find my old Radio shack db meter and take some
soundings..
82zxt /5sp /Fsm /Tools /Med Knowledge /Tampa /And a little Learned Luck.
A:
If the ticket isn't for a loud exhaust, then how loud is irrelevant. Don't bring it up. If it is for a cat, check the local laws & find out if you are supposed to have 1 given that your car didn't have 1 when new. Check the laws for yourself. Then take proof that you didn't need it. If you need it by law, get 1 take proof of the purchase & install. In this case, plead ignorance (because of not needing 1 when new) & ask for no fine court costs etc.
Anyone can drive a new car.
A:
No cops in California carry decible meters nor will they probably ever. The measurement is taken 18" from the tailpipe edge at a 45 degree angle and at 2 measurments at idle and 75% of max rpm i think it is. if it is measured on a moving vehicle i think its something like 50 feet away. the actual regulations are found on the net, i just forget what they are.
for these violations the cop does not show up in court since its classified as a fix it ticket.
A:
2.) Fight it with the fact that my car was never manufactured with a cat in the first place. Since he didn't mention my muffler I was going to keep my mouth shut about that. If I do choose the 2nd choice should I take pics of my car, the Non-Catalyst plate under the hood and in the door along with the VIN and bring my registration so they will know that I'm not showing them pictures of two different cars?
Absolutely. Show up dressed respectfully, show the court the respect it deserves, do NOT cop any sort of attitude and act extremely humble. Much like Sweet said above, except I would not admit to my car being ANY loiuder than the other cars--rather I would say the VISUAL appeal of the vehicle draws attention to it, and THEN the subjective test was applied somewhat in error. And in fact it is a very quiet car. (Makes a good argument for using that resonator glasspack I use, huh?)
Play to the court like you are embarrased by the whole "mistake" the officer made, and explain how it was not the right place to argue with the officer then an there (if he shows up), and that you have proof that the vehicle was nover manufactured with a catalyst, and present it.
If the officer is present, ask the judge to have the officer APOLOGIZE for his mistake after he sees PROOF the vehicle is a FEDERAL car, and does not REQUIRE a catalyst on it in the first place.
It should be thrown out no problem, getting the cop to be forced to apologize would be icing on the cake, and my only reason for appearing in the first place....but then again, I'mnasshole! LOL
Now be aware that this would apply if the ticket was only written for the removed cat. He may be implying your car is loud because the catalyst is removed. You may have to take your car to someplace and run it for a sound meter at a certified lab at a specified distance (like the law states in California) and show the judge the proof of the decibel reading (which is a good idea to do anyway). If the state you are in does not havea sound law like CA, and it's totally subjective and in the hands of the police officer that writes the ticket, you may be screwed---it's revenue enhancement. Unless the judge hears your car and agrees that is is not loud. This is unlikely.
If you go prepared and show decibel levels below 85 at 1meter, it will be hard to fault because that is damn quiet, and allowable by OSHA for constant 8 hour exposure without hearing protection. The average office is 75dba.....
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Dec 1, 3:19pm)
A:
NEVER INSTALL A GUTTED CATALYTIC CONVERTER ON A CAR!
And to do so violated FEDERAL LAW on several points, especially because YOUR CAR IS A NON CATALYST VERSION!!!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
And some aftermarket exhaust manufacturer's supply a California Compliance Letter because so many of their customer's were being hassled.
It looks REAL good when you go to court, show the OFFICIAL COMPLIANCE CERTIFICATE from the manufacturer to the judge, and explain how you tried to show it to the cop ticketing you, and he told you "I don't give a sh*t what you got that says it's legal, I'm still writing you a ticket!"
The judge looks over, and usually makes snide comments to the cop.. It's funny as hell. Greddy sent a lot of those letters out.
Briann is very correct, in CA, the law is VERY specific how the measurements are to be taken, and a meter is CHEAP! I know a few Subaru guys who have the page from the CVC and a meter in the glove box, and offer it to the cops to verify with when stopped. That really screws with their head... I got one! Cost me like $69...
Imnasshole! LOL
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
oh man i need to get one of the db meters! i just never even investigated the cost or who sold them....
course the cop is gonna say it aint calibrated if i pull it out or something along those lines.
A:
Catch him out one nite and break BOTH his legs with a ballbat or whatever is handy at the moment :)But go to court with a tie & suit on
A:
So far I've been very lucky and don't scare up cops. Then again - I look like an old fart - (harmless).
Sounds like a lot of you guys are guilty of DWY - Driving While Young!
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
A:
"No cops in California carry decible meters nor will they probably ever"
So when and where do they take the reading ?
82zxt /5sp /Fsm /Tools /Med Knowledge /Tampa /And a little Learned Luck.
A:
The official reading is taken at a smog referee station (and there is like 1 of those stations in each county only).
fugged up thing is that not only do they they check the decibles on your car if you get a ticket and take it in, they open the hood and do a complete engine and exhaust check and will nail you on anything else they can find also.
A:
Sounds like a fun saturday......yuck
82zxt /5sp /Fsm /Tools /Med Knowledge /Tampa /And a little Learned Luck.