General Chat
Q:
"An EMP attack potentially represents a high-tech means for terrorists to kill millions of Americans the old-fashioned way, through starvation and disease," the book said.
Most are familiar with an EMP pulse , but few may realize how devastating the effects would be for our country. Imagine the power grid being shut down and all newer cars and trucks being inoperable!!
All I can say is keep your carbs and your points distributor handy!!
Later,Norm
U.S. seen vulnerable to space 'pulse' attack
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
November 22, 2005
The United States is highly vulnerable to attack from electronic pulses caused by a nuclear blast in space, according to a new book on threats to U.S. security.
A single nuclear weapon carried by a ballistic missile and detonated a few hundred miles over the United States would cause "catastrophe for the nation" by damaging electricity-based networks and infrastructure, including computers and telecommunications, according to "War Footing: 10 Steps America Must Take to Prevail in the War for the Free World."
"This is the single most serious national-security challenge and certainly the least known," said Frank J. Gaffney Jr. of the Center for Security Policy, a former Pentagon official and lead author of the book, which includes contributions by 34 security and intelligence specialists.
An electromagnetic-pulse (EMP) attack uses X-rays and gamma rays produced in a nuclear blast in three separate waves of pulses, each with more damaging effects, and would take months or years to repair, the book states. The damage to unshielded electronics would be irreversible.
The EMP danger was highlighted recently by a special congressional commission that has received little public attention and is considered a unique way for rogue states such as North Korea and Iran, or other enemies such as al Qaeda, to use nuclear weapons in the future.
Al Qaeda is known to be seeking nuclear weapons, according to documents uncovered at the terrorist group's facilities in Afghanistan.
The group could use a freighter equipped with a short-range ballistic missile to fire a nuclear missile over the United States, the book said, noting that North Korea sells its own version of the Scud for around $100,000.
North Korea, in recent nuclear talks in Beijing, threatened to export its nuclear weapons, and Iran already has tested a Scud-missile launch from a ship.
An EMP attack would damage the national power grid, unprotected computers and all devices containing microchips, from medical instruments to military communications, and knock out electronic systems in cars, airplanes and those used in banking and finance and emergency services.
"An EMP attack potentially represents a high-tech means for terrorists to kill millions of Americans the old-fashioned way, through starvation and disease," the book said.
"Although the direct physical effects of EMP are harmless to people, a well-designed and well-executed EMP attack could kill indirectly far more Americans than a nuclear weapon detonated in our most populous city."
North Korea has been learning about EMP weapons from Russia, which is believed to have worked on EMPs for decades. China is also working on EMP arms, according to a recent Pentagon report.
The book calls for taking 10 actions to protect the free world from an array of 21st-century threats, including hardening U.S. infrastructures against an EMP attack and countering Islamist fascism through ideological counterproposals.
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
Post Edited (Nov 22, 6:47am)
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Ya, and the government wants to get rid analog radio and tv signals transmitted by vacuum tube equipment. Bad idea. There will be no radio or tv at all. I keep a working vacuum tube amp and tuner in my home. It is the only equipment that will receive a signal after an EMP attack. There will no doubt be hundreds of HAM radio operators out there transmitting on old vacuum tube equipment running on batteries if there is such an attack. My equipment does not have a single solid state device in it. Another nice doomsayer post Norm! j/k ;-)
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Yeah the Russians had the Vacuum tube advantage during the Cold War as thier "inferior planes" still had tubes and would be able to withstand an EMP Pulse.
Also did you know the most expensive Home Audio Surround Sound Systems still use Vacuum Tubes??
I looked at system the other day that was $73,000!!! Yikes!
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
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I LOVE my tube system stereo! It is simply a pleasure to listen to my old records on it! So clean and powerful! I have a Fisher amp and tuner. I just replaced the 4 power amp tubes with brand new Russian replicas! They sound perfect and were only 50 bucks for the 4 of them! You can still get some great tube stereo equipment fairly cheap on ebay. But it goes real fast. My fisher equipment would easily go for between $500 and $1000. I also have an H.H Scott amp and tuner if anyone is interested.
Post Edited (Nov 22, 7:55am)
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"few may realize how devastating the effects would be for our country"
and even fewer realize that the effect is minimal when detonated on the ground. china/us/russia/india/etc have been setting them off on the ground for quite a while. it's hardly a "national" concern unless they have thousands of nukes(in which case emp is your least concern) or they have several nukes and several icbm boosters to launch them with.
also cars are "hardened" these days against emp to a large degree in much the same way that the military hardened their systems 30 years ago.
it's like the W2K paranoia all over again.
79 280ZX -The best selling sports car of all time
Post Edited (Nov 22, 7:28am)
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tkr do you have evidence to support your hardening claims??
Do you realize that Police departments are starting to use a new EMP gun to SHUT DOWN a perps car???
If you are gonna rob a bank better you have a carb and points set up!!
BTW we are talking about high altitude blasts tkr and not ground blasts.
Strange that you aren't concerned, but yet the brightest minds in the nation are concerned....what does that tell you about yourself???
Oh btw, it was Y2K not W2K
Later,Norm
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
Post Edited (Nov 22, 7:54am)
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yeah ok and the US is vaunarble from its own lunecy, in my opinion biowarfare is far more dangerous, so are newer nuclear weapons, they can fly in undetected over great distances.. If someone wants harm to be done, then he will succeed, nomatter what country, or how hi tech the defence system is...
That is the whole threath of terror, it can happen everywhere at anytime...
the fact that we are hyping it, by calling terrorist every second, and actually feeling and acting out fear only feeds the terrorist
You can sleep in your car, but cant drive in your house
if you are fully in control, you are not driving fast enough!
79 ZXR 46K!
81 ZXT EURO 2+2
83 ZXT
All fine Fastback winnabego's
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right, there is an rf(emp) gun the police are testing.
right, you have to detonate a nuke at high altitude.
the thing you are missing is power and proximity. you need a large nuke at high altitude or a small rf in close proximity. so i guess if the terrorists get icbm's and large nukes then this will be a threat (well duh!).
79 280ZX -The best selling sports car of all time
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Yo Frank, that's why I bought new seals for my Z! I will live in it! It will be the ultimate anti- biohazard containment shelter! LOL j/k
BTW, I thought TKR was dead.... wtf?
Post Edited (Nov 22, 8:06am)
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H H Scott??? Like the Emerson Radio affiliate H H Scott??? ROFLMAO!!!!!
Hopefully what you have is old, and before H H Scott and Emerson were affiliated, if there ever was such a time........if it's newer I would have my doubts about it.
H H Scott = crap
Emerson Radio = crap
ask me how I know......
Ken
'82ZX n/a 2+2
'02 Sportster XL1200C
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"BTW, I thought TKR was dead.... wtf"
hardly, some bozo's on got-z started that rumor in their idle time.
speaking of killing people, i would assume that a guided emp gun would never be actually used to stop a car since the radiation level would also be absorbed by the driver/occupants. no idea what the health effects or legal ramifications of that would be.
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Ken, the HH Scott amp and tuner I have are extremely high quality, vintage tube components. Not crap.
http://hhscott.com/
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TKR, that was the most convincing "death" by proxy I have ever seen on Got-Z! The debate goes on about your death about once a month over there! Really? You are the REAL TKR?
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Old is good in this case.....the only H H Scott stuff I ever see is the cheap WalMart crap. Pallets and pallets (more like truck loads) of it, all on it's way back to China. Plastic crap is all it is now. There must have been a time where H H Scott was actually worth something....not the new stuff that's for sure. Cheap clock radios, and stereos.....pure crap now, it's a wonder any of it works.
I have an old Pioneer tuner/amp from the late 60's, vacume tube based. It doesn't work quite right, but I hang onto it just the same. I also have the speaker cabinets that came with it....all made from hard wood, not particle board. Can't beat an amp made from vacume tubes.....
Ken
'82ZX n/a 2+2
'02 Sportster XL1200C
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I just wanted to point out that it is redundant to say 'pulse' after EMP.
Kind of like when people say 'ATM machine'.
'74 260z---NA L28 MSnS-E w/ Innovate Wideband
Already sparking, soon to be squirting.
Cogito, ergo dolorum.
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Ken, your Pioneer stuff is worth a small fortune (just like my old HH Scott) stuff! Ya, I agree with about the new junk too! But, yes, there was a time when HH Scott was a leader in HiFi! I buy a lot of Silver era Pioneer stuff from ebay. It just never stops selling for HIGH bucks! An SX-1280 receiver just went for over $1,700 on ebay! Check out Pioneer on ebay. You will be amazed!
BTW, I love this website.... http://audiokarma.org/
I can only dream of owning a couple of those McIntosh mono-blocks!
If you have a problem with your Pioneer, these folks can help. But, beware! They will try to con you out of it just like Z buffs will try to con you out of your good Z stuff! It's all vintage GOLD!
Jeff Tolbert's Silver Collection:
I am also a huge Amiga head! Still sells wildly and for big $ on ebay! Long live the A500!
Awesome Amiga forum here! http://www.amiga.org/
I want an Eniac so I can keep computing after the big EMP! LOL
Post Edited (Nov 22, 9:39am)
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they almost convinced me too, so i stopped debating. i decided that i could not afford to loose such an argument with masters of the craft.
i had a chance to read up a little on directed emp "guns" and impact on human tissue. they claim no ill-effects on tissue. that seems a little odd since the weaker cell phone radiation is still a concern to many of the same people. of course any metalic implants in the teeth/bones might absorb some and heat up a bit...
79 280ZX -The best selling sports car of all time
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On a side note, I remember reading about that technology when I was in middle school and not getting freaked out about it.
That was over 10 years ago. I hate it when people act like there's this new and terrible technology that's emerging as a threat when it's been around for years and years.
Let's all beat our breasts and lament TODAY That someone invented something 20 years ago.
Setting off a massive nuclear bomb in the atmosphere will also have profound imlications for fallout no matter where it detonates. Not a smart strategy.
And besides, it is the tenet of the US government to sell our inferior last-generation weapons to our enemies so we retain the upper hand. As if there isn't anything more terrifying than an EMP waiting in a silo somewhere in this country.
God, I feel like starting a post ranting about how fabulous and novel color TV's are.
'74 260z---NA L28 MSnS-E w/ Innovate Wideband
Already sparking, soon to be squirting.
Cogito, ergo dolorum.
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I think people these days have forgotten how to enjoy their lives and not fall into the media's scare trap.
_________________________________________________
This is my sig
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people forget that the news they see is geared toward "exitement". no excitement, no viewers, no sponsors, no money. it's degraded in a large part to info-tainment.
yes, turn all news off and you actually feel physically better. try it for a week and enjoy the calm.
79 280ZX -The best selling sports car of all time
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I'm selling industrial-sized rolls of duct tape if anybody needs any...
_______________________
Owner of the only ALL-white Shiro Special :)
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That's what it is alright.....an old SX receiver. I knew I was hanging onto it for some reason :-)
Thanks for the link :-)
Ken
'82ZX n/a 2+2
'02 Sportster XL1200C
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Well I for one am glad that there are some people that take the EMP threat serious enough to try and do something NOW about minimizing it's effects later should it happen.
Having carbs and a backup points distributor might prove to be a handy item someday.
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
Post Edited (Nov 22, 10:09am)
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No problem Ken.... I get into a lot of stuff, the above just some of it. Not to derail this thread, but I try to convey other interests to fellow forum members as sometimes you run into peeps that like the same things. It's always fun to find common interests in other members. BTW, here's the recent ebay auction for the SX-1280. CRAZY!
Let me know what model number your Pioneer receiver is. I'm very interested! I could talk electronics all day!
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I'll take a look when I get home.....the unit is in storage....but I still have the owners manual, and not one torn or damaged page.
I've got an old Pioneer PL-50 Turn Table also.....still running strong, have only had to replace the belt once.
My Uncle brought all that stuff back with him in '73 when he returned from Vietnam....he was a civilian contractor working on helo's. He bought the stereo equipment sometime in '69 I think, could have been early '70. I've had it since I was about 12 or so.
Ken
'82ZX n/a 2+2
'02 Sportster XL1200C
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"Well I for one am glad that there are some people that take the EMP threat serious enough"
hello?
you do know that the author of that upcomming book also is the writer of that article in the times, right? gee, i wonder if this journalists is just promoting his book with that teaser article?
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hey tkr can you read??
U.S. seen vulnerable to space 'pulse' attack
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
November 22, 2005
"This is the single most serious national-security challenge and certainly the least known," said Frank J. Gaffney Jr. of the Center for Security Policy, a former Pentagon official and lead author of the book, which includes contributions by 34 security and intelligence specialists.
Later,Norm
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
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I'm more concerned w/ the idiot drivers than the "sky falling."
As far as tube audio amps. What a crock. Noisy and muddy sound. (Yeah, I know - they like to call it "warmth.") Expensive for the new ones and if used much, unreliable.
Rusty but running.
Polish cell phone and two tubes of Aluma-seal.
And, now we are historic.
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how many Frank J. Gaffney Jr's are there?
there is one that writes a lot in the Times:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20051003-094232-3355r.htm
and a hell of a lot more:
http://catholicexchange.com/vm/archives.asp?vm_id=75&aut=575
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from the net:
Frank J. Gaffney Jr. is a columnist for the Washington Times and lead author of the forthcoming War Footing: Ten Steps America Must Take to Survive and Prevail in the War for the Free World.
so yea, it seems like a promo piece...
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so if there is a big emp bomb that goes off, we should all raid Jay Lenos Garage then right?
___________________________________________________________
Erik Coleman
Orange '76 280Z 2+2
Red '85 300ZX Turbo
Black '86 300ZX NA
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Hey tkr just because the someone is selling a book doesn't make the info invalid.
Anyway, why does almost EVERYTHING in here have to degenerate into an attack on the post?
It's ridiculous.
Later,Norm
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
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mine wasnt an attack. Mine is a actual question.
___________________________________________________________
Erik Coleman
Orange '76 280Z 2+2
Red '85 300ZX Turbo
Black '86 300ZX NA
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why do some people take everything here personally? i don't know or care.
the info itself is valid as far as it goes, but this is not some new revelation that no one has though of before or something that only a journalist is aware of. it's a repackaging of decades old information into a new book who's author works for the source of this "story".
i actally read norms post, re-read it, searched for similar articles, and then came to my own conclusion that the washington times is doing a little self-promotion. tv news advertises itself all the time so no idea why anyone gets upset if you point out that a newspaper is doing the same thing.
sure emp can be a problem, so can "dirty" bombs, biological, chemical, etc(and all cheaper and easier than a nuke on a missle). which is more likely a threat?
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I agree with Tkr.. there is a lot of theroy and speculation with this idea.. very little empirical evidence as to widespread EMP effects.
Even still.. I guess I'll go put my Faraday cage around my Z ;)
...
Post Edited (Nov 22, 12:41pm)
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The sky is falling, the sky is falling.......the EMP threat is almost older than you Norm. The newer ('70s version) is carbon fiber particle bombs. You gotta move (ahead) with the times on your threat situation board.
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actually, i would assume that a dirty bomb is a worse threat since it would affect the land for a very, very, long time. whole states could be unsafe for decades, centuries, millenia.
the good (and sad) thing is that as long as they don't "emp" tokyo or china that the u.s. should be able to re-import most everything that was fried in just a few months...
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Hey Norm, why post if you didn't want a debate? I've got to agree with TKR here. It is unrealistic that terrorists could make an EMP weapon that would be effective on the US. I don't think they could launch an ICBM from another country, and they sure as hell would have a tough time getting a Nuke in and a rocket big enough, and sophisticated enough to loft it into the upper atmosphere. Now if China wanted to screw with us, or god forbid Kim Jong Il isn't lying about his arsenal, we may have a problem.
I mean, come on were gonna take these guys seriously? ---> http://www.czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=402
'73 Turbo, not much stock. Sold now... :-(
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It's the general attitude anyone takes in here to any topic posted by anyone.
It's getting OLD with every ******* in here trying to be an ******* by saying any post is "Old News"
Well NO **** our Z's are old as well so Hell let's just shut the damn forum down altogether.
And Yes I SAID at the beginning of my post that most people are aware of EMP. ANd yes I F(*&*( know it's been a concern since the 50's.
I was merely reminding people of the inherent value of carbs and points ignition systems.
Later,Norm
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
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I'd say those EMP's are about as threatening as the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
*edited for spelling*
_____________________________________________________
'76 280Z w/Shaved Head and Illuminas
'83 280zxt w/RUST
Post Edited (Nov 22, 4:31pm)
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The world didn't stop in the sixties when the US did those experiments. The electronics in my car are so much hardier than any thing made then. I'm not worried.
If I was, I'd ground my car. makes for nice sheilding :)
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times to contribute to future generations: construct pyramidal garages, get your Z inside n go on..
Have you shared the left lane today?
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The Brown Note Threat:
The story of the Brown Note, also known as the “Disco Dump,” asserts the existence of a low frequency vibration which, when reproduced at sufficient volume, resonates with the depths of the human digestive tract to cause what medical personnel call “involuntary gastrointestinal motility.” Put in less technical terms, the Brown Note reputedly precipitates a loss of sphincter control, giving rise to immediate defecation. Different versions of the myth place the frequency between 5 and 20 Hz, and recent variations claim that the effect has been produced at loud rock concerts.
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I really couldn't care less about the asshats in Afghanistan allegedly "trying" to muster some sort of terrorism.
The whole US mentality takes things and ignites them beyond all possibility. Do you think some towel-head can get a hold of a nuke, let alone get it to 50k feet and detonate. Do you think that your news can tell the truth once in a while,well probably not.
Anyway, the only terrorism you really should be afraid of is GANG WARFARE, they are lunatic retards. That and Bio warfare (like hobo's and east indians on city transit)
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Yes there are wealthy terrorists that WILL get a Nuke and will Detonate it in America.
You can count on it. It's not a matter of if, but when.
Later,Norm
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
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norm, but just detonating will not cause a huge "emp" effect (the topic here). since they would also have to get a heavy nuke aloft a few hundred miles, it becomes much less likely.
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I was not stating in the last post that they would detonate it at High Altitude. I was just stating that I believe a terrorist will succeed in detonating a Nuke on our soil someday.
They are true believers and it will be impossible to stop them once uUkes proliferate more around the globe within the next 30 years.
Later,Norm
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
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this one thread was on "emp", right?
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EMP has already hit in Seattle! Of course, it was Paul Allen who delivered it, and I'm not sure if Jimmi Hendrix had the same affect as a Nuke, but it is here nonetheless!
'73 Turbo, not much stock. Sold now... :-(
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I built a smal EMP generator once. Awsome stuff, but it would suck to have that nuke going off over the US...
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hey ZdriverZ - blast your Z with it and tell us what happens.
...
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Hey Norm, have you heard about TELSA technology? Pretty interesting stuff! Then you also have HARP technology too that's some freaky stuff also.
Dave
12/70 240Z, L-28, flat-tops, N-42 head, N-33 intake, MSA 10-2002 cam, ZX ignition, early 5-speed, R-180,4:11 gears, 903 Blue paint.
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Yeah old Tesla the Serbian Hero of Electricty!!
I like playing the Counter Stike game with the Tesla towers!! hehe
Later,Norm
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
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Command and Conquer? I didn't know they had it in counter strike, but I haven't played that much.
'73 Turbo, not much stock. Sold now... :-(
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DUH!!
Yeah I meant Command and Conquer....brain fart!!
Later,Norm
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
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Let's see -
I've made it throught the 50's and 60's
Cold war, Nuclear Doomsday, Halle's Comet, Comet Kohutec,
countless hurricanes, Y2K, the New Millinium (no matter if you think it begins just after 12/31/1999 or 12/31/2000.
Aids, Ebola and countless other viruses - now it's Bird Flu to worry about:
what happened to the small pox attacks?
At 55 I've just about - no I have had it with Doom & Gloom sayers!
Enough. My biggest disasters that I have to deal with are the 280ZX tubo is out and she needs a new manifold gasket; the 300ZX now needs a new timing belt and and the 1st gen. 300 ZX is in pieces with no tranny.
Now That Is Dooms Day!
FDR: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself".
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
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You have to be prepared for future threats so that you DON'T have to fear the actual event.
Later,Norm
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
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Oh wait, let's not forget about those wonderful terrorists that are wanting all of us Americans DEAD just so they can go to Allah and have a few virgins waiting for them.
Dave
12/70 240Z, L-28, flat-tops, N-42 head, N-33 intake, MSA 10-2002 cam, ZX ignition, early 5-speed, R-180,4:11 gears, 903 Blue paint.
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Like the Y2K scare, I can mention several portions of Society that will be unaffected by EMP.
Most notably MENNONITES! (Amish)
If you have nothing electrical, you will not be affected. Hopefully they have weaponry to defend against the hoards of citydwellers forced into the counrtyside to search for food when an EMP hits a major city like Philly.
EMP affects things that are on, not off. If you don't have it on when it hits, chances are good self-sustaining items like generators and automobiles will work juuuuust fine after the EMP initial pulse.
On another note, I'm thinking cashing in one of my 401K's and buying a Scud so I can extort money out of the government for my retirement. i think I can be at least as successful as North Korea in that endeavour, living Scud-Close to a Major Population center like L.A. Hell, I bet people in Colorado and Arizona would pay me TO Scud L.A. to keep the migration to their states down!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"