General Chat
Q:
Can our country get any more insane???
What's next suing farmers because their cows fart??
Calif. sues 6 carmakers in global warming suit
Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:59pm ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California filed a global warming lawsuit on Wednesday against Ford Motor Co., General Motors Corp., Toyota Motor Corp. and three other automakers, charging that greenhouse gases from their vehicles have cost the state millions of dollars.
State Attorney General Bill Lockyer said the lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Northern California was the first of its kind to seek to hold manufacturers liable for the damages caused by their vehicles' emissions.
The lawsuit also names Chrysler Motors Corp., the U.S. arm of Germany's DaimlerChrysler, and the North American units of Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. Ltd..
It also charges that vehicle emissions have contributed significantly to global warming and harmed the resources, infrastructure and environmental health of the most populous state in the United States.
Lockyer, a Democrat, said the complaint states that under federal and state common law the automakers have created a public nuisance by producing "millions of vehicles that collectively emit massive quantities of carbon dioxide."
Carbon dioxide emissions and other greenhouse gases have been linked to global warming.
The lawsuit comes after California passed legislation supported by Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger that requires the state to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases by 25 percent by 2020. California was the first state to mandate reduction of greenhouse gases.
California has also issued rules to force automakers to cut tailpipe emissions from cars and trucks. Enforcement of those rules is being delayed by litigation from automakers.
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
It's California!!! <roll eyes>
Edit:
I think all the automakers named in the suit should cease shipping and selling cars in California. In other words cease doing business in California! Sell no cars, sell no parts....just exit!!!
Ken
'82ZX n/a 2+2
'02 Sportster XL1200C
Post Edited (Sep 20, 11:52am)
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Good grief is right!
I don't even know what to say about this.
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1990 300zx NA
- Custom Exhaust
- JWT Pop Charger
A:
The real irony here is that more greenhouse gasses probably come from uncorked lawn mowers/tractors, power washers, construction equipment, motorcylcles, jetskis, boats, and small aircraft than the severely regulated automobiles.
So in other words, everything that Californians do for entertainment, and that actually attracts visitors to the lifestyle that many enjoy, is the offending polluting motors.
A:
"the complaint states that under federal and state common law the automakers have created a public nuisance by producing "millions of vehicles "
Automakers should counter sue, claiming a even higher and real BENEFIT being generated by use of their products to the California economy.
A:
^Hahaha nice one
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1990 300zx NA
- Custom Exhaust
- JWT Pop Charger
A:
I'm waiting for the day that California bans all forms of motorsports due to the pollution they are emmiting. I can see NASCAR, NHRA, Supercross, SCORE, WOO, SCCA, etc. all being shut down and locked out of Cali some day.
As far as this lawsuit, it's no different than the lawsuits against McDonalds, Wendy's, and Burger King for their unhealthy food that is making people fat. I swear humans will die off before long due to the complete lack of natural selection.
Jeff
Northville, Michigan
'78 280 10:1 CR, Web Racing cam, Arizona Z Car header, urethane bushings, Tokico springs, Illumina struts, Panasports, Maxima alternator
Post Edited (Sep 20, 1:20pm)
A:
"Automakers should counter sue, claiming a even higher and real BENEFIT being generated by use of their products to the California economy."
YES!!
-Stu85na
* KN air filter w/resonator removed, Maxima Alternator swap
A:
Spot on CKelly.
My KS Jetski and old beater Lawnboy put out way more garbage than any of my vehicles. Money, money, money.
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'74 260Z
'88 300ZX GLL
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The automakers comply with California smog laws, if California wants to go after somebody for green house gasses it needs look no further than its own populous. They are the ones that purchase and operate the vehicles. This is a stupid lawsuit, it's like blaming mcdonalds for making you fat. They don't make you eat their food just like you don't have to buy a car.
1972 240z w/L28, tokico shocks and springs, and a 5 speed waiting. Also running high performance ultra mega blinker fluid, that's at least an extra 50hp to the wheels.
1987 Toyota Supra Turbo 5-speed. Belongs to me until my friend get's back from Iraq.
A:
Yeah Hybridz, that is an excellent idea!
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
Yet another reason I WILL NEVER move to california.
Mans Prayer "I'm a man.... But I can change..... If I have too...... I guess"
No matter how good she looks, some other guy is sick and tired of putting up with her.
A:
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"The real irony here is that more greenhouse gasses probably come from uncorked lawn mowers/tractors, power washers, construction equipment, motorcylcles, jetskis, boats, and small aircraft than the severely regulated automobiles."
Yeah, CKelly. But why stop with just the automakers and the manufactureres of all that other stuff? How about people who operate that equipment and the gas companies who sell fuel?
Why stop there? How about power companies with coal burning powerplants?
... Powerplants in California? ... I guess that won't work.
How about ranchers raising livestock? Cows are known to spew a whole lot of methane. Woodfired stove manufactures create products that emit all sorts of smog and greenhouse gasses. Manufacturers and distributors of refrigeration units destroy the ozone. Restaurants! Just look at all the smoke coming out of their exhaust stacks.
Hey, among all the other perps, human beings breathe out carbon dioxide costantly. How about suing us for breathing?!!!
Just one more reason not to live in California.
3 Zs, 1 "Rusty", 4 more to go
Post Edited (Sep 20, 1:54pm)
A:
"charging that greenhouse gases from their vehicles have cost the state millions of dollars .....It also charges that vehicle emissions have contributed significantly to global warming and harmed the resources, infrastructure and environmental health of the most populous state in the United States."
The lawsuit will be thrown out on both counts:
There is zero evidence that the State would be financially "better off" without transportation AND zero evidence linking the State of California automobiles directly (much less significantly) to Global Temperature variations.
Personally, I would love to "voir dire" the plaintifs to see just how they figure that California is poorer because of AND the entire world's climate is controlled solely by cars within the State of California. Both claims are simply asinine.
A:
Perhaps next we can sue the elderly for producing a generation of welfare dependents who cast blame at everyone but themselves and expect to be compensated for the rigor of existing in society at large.
Maybe I'll sue the state of California for their detriments to the environment. I'll claim that because they engage in so much contraversial and ridiculous legislation, they tax renewable resources like timber for newspapers. This legislation also contributes to state and national stress levels. Stress causes indigestion, which causes increased flatulence. Increased flatulence equates to a greater output of greenhouse gases, and therefore global warming.
Therefore, California should pay us all an exhorbitant amount of money because we fart so much.
'74 260z---NA L28 MSnS-E w/ Innovate Wideband
Already sparking, soon to be squirting.
Cogito, ergo dolorum.
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I think I remember reading on here that prevailing winds blew pollution from the Orient onto the West Coast...let's sue the Eastern Hemisphere!!
'78 280Z 2+2 R.I.P. August 29, 2005
'75 280Z Coupe 4-speed
"Never been there, didn't do that."
"The harder you try, the dumber you look."
A:
Wouldn't there be a conflict of interest if they drove to the courthouse to file this suit . . . in cars?
'76 280Z driver, '75 parts car
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The cars these companies have sold conformed to the law at the time they were sold, stupid argument and stupid lawsuit. If they could proove that the cars did not actually meet the emissions standards then maybe, but stupid.
1972 240Z always in progress
***WARNING*** MY POSTS MAY CONTAIN SARCASM
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All Automakers should collude, and make a pact to sell no vehicles in California. Pull all distribution back to the border, and sell ONLY 49-State Vehicles.
California is, in effect, suing automakers for COMPLYING with standards THEY SET!
If they thought it was so bad, the STATE should have set TIGHTER emissions requirements!!!
This is typical action on the state of CA. Make a standard, and then when a business makes the standard, halve it summarily and say "tough luck!"
Or simply stiff vendors for payment! What are you to do, file in FEDERAL court for your payments?
Lockyer is the next Grey Davis.
They should haul them all out and shoot em all, and let me reign as "King Tony"
I could straighten out the state in short order. Civil Libertarians be damned!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
"How about power companies with coal burning powerplants?
... Powerplants in California? ... I guess that won't work."
>>>>No, it won't! They already wheel powe in from plants built in MONTANA specifically to supply California with power. Same for Arizona, and several power plants are now being constructed in MEXICO to supply California with power. They have literally legislated power production out of the state! Grey Davis and the Tree-Huggers had a big effect...
"How about ranchers raising livestock? Cows are known to spew a whole lot of methane."
>>>>>Don't get me started! The San Bernadino Dairy PReserve mad emor milk than Wisconsin, in a VERY concentrated cow-management area. Sluices for waste recovery were legislated to prevent runoff during rains, and low-methanogenic foodstuff was almost MANDATED for a reduction in cow farts! SEROIUSLY! Talk to some AG Majors in SoCal and this is the stuff the colleges are working on!!!
"Woodfired stove manufactures create products that emit all sorts of smog and greenhouse gasses."
>>>>>Next time you get a flyer from a mass merchandasier, note the fine print on wood stoves advertized for sale: "Not for sale or delivery in the state of California" Regulations require they have CATALYTIC CONVERTERS on them, as well as Gas Water Heaters and a host of other things as well...
Manufacturers and distributors of refrigeration units destroy the ozone.
>>>>>Serious registration and active investigation and fining of refrigeration companies. Guys literally watching to see if people are venting the A/C from their cars while in a shop!
Restaurants! Just look at all the smoke coming out of their exhaust stacks.
>>>>>BIG LOBBY prevented them from requiring catalysts on grease stacks. They are next as it will not be possible to lobby against the next logical step when everybody else without a lobby has been bled dry for their incremental "low hung fruit" for pollution reduction.
What Lockyer SHOULD sue the Federal Government for is the 8BILLION plus annually that illegal aliens cost the State. But we can't do THAT! no no no, we can't ask the federal government to pay for people they should have kept out of the USA in the FIRST place---but forbid the state from taking any action against....
The sad FACT of the illegal immigration to California is that there is 2.2 million more people in SoCal causing FAR MORE pollution that would have been produced if the state had only followed it's normal growth projections. The influx of illegals is totally out of poportion to normal populaytion growth, and it's made the pollution worse than it would have been otherwise.
Take the CHP, start a Task Force, and do a vehicle registration/license/insurance sweep of the state.
IMPOUND every vehicle without proper documentation, IMPRISION every driver without a license, DEPORT any not legally here.
That can be done in a 90 day sweep, and the problem would get measurably better in that time. Wehn they KNOW they are being chased, they hightail it out of dodge! Back to Mexico, wherever, just get out of HERE!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Sep 20, 4:38pm)
A:
God I hate LIBERALS!!! I will NEVER move to the west coast, to many fruits out there.
-1981 280zx
-89 Jeep Cherokee
F-54 - N-47 - 9.8:1 comp - 6-3-1 header -Schneider (470 lift, 280 dur.) - full 2 1/4 exhaust- Pallnet fuel rail - 6 puck ceramic clutch
A:
"I think I remember reading on here that prevailing winds blew pollution from the Orient onto the West Coast...let's sue the Eastern Hemisphere!!"
Riverside successfully sued Los Angeles for relief from federal fines levied against it for having such poor pollution control. Thing is, at the time Riverside as nothing but farms and orchards. The smog was blowing in from costal winds, through the mountian passes from L.A.!
Which brings us to the Orient! China's pollution controls (or lack thereof) have caused mesurable pollution in California, and the federal government REFUSES to acknowledge that fact, making California responsible to "lower detectable emissions" regardless of their source offshore!!!
This brings up another interesting bit of mail I got recently. If you remember my past Emissions Law Rants, one legislator has come up several times. Mountjoy from Arcadia. Well, he is a FRIEND of the auto hobby, and was the guy who tried to get the old BAR90 standards written into the State Constitution so that any further changes had to be passed by a 2/3 vote of the people! (the BAR90 program was before the current smog check, and didn't require a $40K dyno to get into the smog business---it complied with everything the feds wanted but two provisions, but BAR Scrapped the WHOLE program and went to something even more ridivculous---er---just "because") Really active in automotive protection legislation, and author of the Infamous Prop 187 (says state shouldn't pay for illegal alien services, and can deny them the services unless they are legally here!), is going to be running against the airhead Dianne Feinstein for State Senator.
I urge anyone in California to support his campaign. It will be a shame to loose him inside the state for his stands on Automotive Issues, but I would rather see him in Washington and having more effect on national legislation...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
I love Michigan. No smog laws.
-1981 280zx
-89 Jeep Cherokee
F-54 - N-47 - 9.8:1 comp - 6-3-1 header -Schneider (470 lift, 280 dur.) - full 2 1/4 exhaust- Pallnet fuel rail - 6 puck ceramic clutch
A:
This is one of those "only in a America" things or for you guys more directly, "only in California" hehe
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
"I love Michigan. No smog laws."
What about those IM240 stations in the Metro Areas in Federal Noncompliance?
They aren't as "emissions free" as you might think!
What about banning of certian watercraft on inland waterways?
Not an emissions restriction? I think it is!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
retarded! i love california but the crap we have to deal with sometimes realy sucks.just my opinion i'll probably never leave but theres always a chance.
Z's are like woman maintenance,maintenance,maintenance!
1971 240Z gunmetal metalic 5sp 4:11 gears in the rear
illuminas and purchased from the original owner w/136k original miles
A:
Look out your window at the sky though! lol
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
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Screw that! That's rediculous! Why don't they just ban cars in the state and make everyone ride bikes! And the no one will be able to sue McDonald's for getting fat anymore! They should push california out into the ocean somewhere so it can be its own super emissions country... idiots. If CA actually wins that means that all the car companies will make super turd wagons that are gutless and produce no "greenhouse gasses"... Why couldn't they wait till the new camaro came out?!
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(SOLD)
A:
>They should push california out into the ocean somewhere so it can be its own super emissions country...
Escape from L.A? Haha, but I think in that movie it was a prison lol
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
"Why don't they just ban cars in the state and make everyone ride bikes!"
JASON THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE LIBERAL AGENDA IS IN THE STATE!
People talk around it, but totally elmininating PERSONAL forms of transport is THE goal.
When you limit a populace's movement, it becomes far easier to impose tyrrany on them, and this is the long-term goal for the liberal state legislature!
They talk all nice and flowery about "human rights and dignity" but what they want is a socialist welfare state where everyone is beholden to "elected officials" for their liveleyhood. When they become dependent, you have them by the balls.
And if they can't just up and leave with a couple of bucks in their vehicle's tank...
Then you REALLY got a captive audience!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
I agree with the proposed idea for the big 6 to stop selling cars in california unless CA recognizes the economic benefit from the cars
Also you should see all the cars that illigals drive in san diego -- it is not a preaty sight. The pollution levels on their "newer" cars can exceed the polution levels of some of the older cars we know even without the cat converters.
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'74 2+2 -- MSA sway bars, Illuminas, Eibach Progressive, Energy Suspension
L28 with MN47, 240Z rods, milled down dished pistons (11.6:1 CR) and 240sx tranny
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committing suicide in small managable payments
A:
Just read the large coal fired plants in construction in Colorado and Arizona (12 of them) were just given edicts from the State of California: Make power using the best available emissions control technology, or we don't want your power.
Just a side note about energy usage. Despite California's Per-Capita Income increase of over 30% in the past 10 years, it's energy consumption has remained FLAT!
California is one of THE most energy-efficient states in the country. We actually use less, per person, than anywhere else in the USA.
But that's not widely publicized.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
I live in Nevada and I'm all for pushing our god forsaken neighbors into the ocean, make california go hang out with hawaii for awhile. We would get less of the terrible drivers and I'd have beach front property!
On Tony's note of immigration WHERE THE HELL were the law enforcement officials during the "Si Se Puede!" marches? There were people down at those rallies that admitted to being in this country illegally and didn't get shipped out. All the officials would have had to do was ask for I.D. "Okay you don't have I.D. then we're going to pull you off to the side and check you out, if you're not legal you're getting a ride south" Sure it would cost a lot of money but god forbid you enforce immigration laws. LAWS!!!!
1972 240z w/L28, tokico shocks and springs, and a 5 speed waiting. Also running high performance ultra mega blinker fluid, that's at least an extra 50hp to the wheels.
1987 Toyota Supra Turbo 5-speed. Belongs to me until my friend get's back from Iraq.
A:
Tony you've got my vote for President.
1973 240Z 4 screw SU's, Tokico HP's, Toyota Calipers
1946 Willys-Overland CJ-2A (restoration in progress)
2006 Ural Gear-Up
A:
Hmmm,
Maybe the automakers are fed up with CA too.
Maybe the automakers will be smart and not fight this.
Maybe the automakers will ask the judge to just go ahead an BAN all vehicles in CA in lieu of a financial settlement (for the good of CA and the future of the Earth)?
This way the automakers will no longer have to put up with this "special" CA only car crap AND it will also torpedo any competition not mentioned in the lawsuit from moving in AND they will not get the bad press of pulling out of CA.
If you're being sued,
you might as well turn it around and use the court to your advanatge...
A:
>Can our country get any more insane???
>What's next suing farmers because their cows fart??
>Calif. sues 6 carmakers in global warming suit
What part exactly are you disagreeing with? The freedom to sue?
This case hasn't been heard by a court yet, so no problems (if it is frivoluous, the court will take care of it pre-trial). You should be able to sue for whatever you want, if there were filters, it might prevent you from getting due process on a legitimate claim.
What are you proposing as an alternative?
A:
>Automakers should counter sue, claiming a even higher and real BENEFIT
> being generated by use of their products to the California economy.
Claims must show harms, not benefits. BTW, I agree with your analysis of the claims though, the causal relationship of the global warming to California's CO2 emissions will be very difficult to show. I think they should stick to the health theory.
Post Edited (Sep 21, 11:05am)
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TONY FOR GOVERNOR!
Really guys, let's put this man in office! Screw the Terminator, we need the Tonynator.
-----
Pete1978z: "It's not that I think stupidity should be punishable by death, I just think we should take the warning labels off of everything and let the problem take care of itself."
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"Claims must show harms, not benefits."
There IS HARM to a company for being dragged into court to keep countering these stupid/factless lawsuits. Time, money, effort. An easy way to calculate damages is to see how mant lawyers are on staff at the worlds automakers and use that figure for 'damages" to the companies.
A:
>There IS HARM to a company for being dragged into court to keep
> countering these stupid/factless lawsuits. Time, money, effort. An easy
> way to calculate damages is to see how mant lawyers are on staff at
> the worlds automakers and use that figure for 'damages" to the
> companies.
Damages for frivolous suits are awarded under procedural rules, not as a counterclaim. The US system (unlike the British system) expects people to pay to represent themselves, and if the suit goes through to judgment, the automakers might be able to get back their legal costs, as you proposed.
A:
The costs you people in America pay due to cooked-in costs to cover Litigation are ENORMOUS!
Every lawsuit will cost a manufacturer $50K (conservatively) to defend against it, FRIVOLUS OR NOT!
You might "THINK" a "frivolous" lawsuit will be dismissed, but all you need is a SLIVER of credibility on ANY claim and the lawsuit will be let go to trial, simply because of the stupid ethical standards that say "one must defend/advocate vociferously"...
Instead, I propose a reform of legal ethics standards to bring common sense back to the law profession.
As it stands now, the miscarrige and perversion of justice that occurs daily by people who hide behind "ethical standards" as an EXCUSE to bring and process lawsuits is out of control.
When you produce more lawyers than engineers, that is the point where society stops being productive. We passed that point some years ago.
More lawyers is NOT a good thing. The Law does NOT replace moral fiber and upbringing. The law deludes itself into believing it is paramount, but the only way law works at all is if there is a higher power that reigns in the lawyers.
We have sadly progressed far from that point, and that is the problem.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Car companies should announce their intentions to counter sue up-front.
Maybe it will scare away the less determined idiots from proceeding in these stupid/baseless lawsuits.
A:
IF YOU PREVAIL...To get anything but your court costs and filing fees back you must ARGUE the fact that it was WITH CLEAR AND OBVIOUS MALICE that the lawsuit was brought! Filing and getting costs and fees awarded is an administrative motion and nothing more. For Lawers Fees, that's another bag or worms altogether!
You will get court costs back. Lawyers fees are a crap shoot, and rarely are awarded unless it's an egregious and open-and-shut case of judicial misconduct.
All the person or group bringing the lawsuit need to prove is "reasonable suspicion" to bring the suit in the first place. A few lies on a deposition and heresay mumblings give almost anyone the "reasonable suspicion" to bring a lawsuit.
Trust me, I know FIRSTHAND about having a bullsh*t lawsuit brought against someone, and then WINNING the suit, but not getting a CENT of lawyer's fees back!
All one needs to do is lie in a deposition, and you're covered. For the state's attorney general to bring this suit for relief, well lest just say as much as you or I would think it's outrageous, legally, they have an argument.
And that's all they need to bring the suit.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Sep 21, 11:21am)
A:
Does any disagree that what the suit claims is false?
Seems like the obvious tactic in their desire to make the state cleaner and LA less smog encircled.
1993 300zx NA
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I wonder if Arnold drives a hummer or a prius.....
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Arnold was the man that brought Hummers to American consumers.
We all know he drives an H1.
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1990 300zx NA
- Custom Exhaust
- JWT Pop Charger
A:
>To get anything but your court costs and filing fees back you must ARGUE
> the fact that it was WITH CLEAR AND OBVIOUS MALICE that the lawsuit
> was brought
Each district varies Tony. It might have been in your case, but this isn't the "general" standard. Typically fees in federal civil suits are usually allowed if there is good reason (normal function is not it).
For frivolity, the standard for federal suits is that it is not being presented for any improper purpose, such as to harass or to cause unnecessary delay or needless increase in the cost of litigation.
Third, your claims must have evidentiary support or be likely to have evidentiary support after discovery.
The fact remains you can speculate all you want about the "face" of the claims, but it's meaningless speculation unless you know the theory behind it. And after doing some digging, I found it's the same thing here. This claim was brought under common law public nuisance doctrine.
Do you know why they brought it? And what they hope to get? Do some reading and it actually makes sense. I think they might stand a chance of winning, if the court adopts the requested precedent.
>all you need is a SLIVER of credibility on ANY claim and the lawsuit will be
> let go to trial
Absolutely not. You can get to discovery, but it is very unlikely to get to trial without merit. Most cases never get to trial.
Tony, your job is to tell me:
1) what they are hoping to get, and
2) why it is bad.
If you can give me sound reasoning, based on the theory of the case, I'll listen.
Post Edited (Sep 21, 2:08pm)
A:
Global Warming is a joke. The IPCC [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Control] is a joke. California is the biggest joke. I don't know where to even start. You think Toyota's SUPER EXTREME ULTRA MEGA LOW emission corola is the problem as semi's blow by and petrochemical/steel refineries/industry companies in China put out more air pollution in a week than the U.S. does in 6 months? WHAT A JOKE. NO ONE has sound evidence global warming even exists beyond what the earth's climate cycles produce normally. Using tropospheric measurments, which are considered more accurate, the earth has cooled a couple degrees since 1900. It's all a massive political joke, just like most $hit these days.
I'll go ahead and tell you what's next to ease the pain.
---"California sues the Sun"---
---[May 3, 2007] People in California have noticed a major increase in temperatures since just a few months ago. In December, temperatures were between 35-55 degrees depending on where in the state you reside. Now, temperatures have soared to a rediculous 88 degrees. California scientists have been working around the clock and after months of testing, have placed with 66% confidence, the Sun is to blame. The star has supposedly been emitting more heat ever since the previous month of December. A wreckless moronic scientist from Oregon claims it has to do with the tilt of the earth's axis and cycles this way every year. California has put a $50,000,000 reward on his head.
You laugh now.
19[TT]91
My TT beauty is gone.
2[00]2 Honda 954RR
Suzuki 1200 S; sportscar eater
19[I4]94 Integra GSR Sedan
Long live the Z...
aka SAHTT
A:
Somebody's cranky.
1972 240z w/L28, tokico shocks and springs, and a 5 speed waiting. Also running high performance ultra mega blinker fluid, that's at least an extra 50hp to the wheels.
1987 Toyota Supra Turbo 5-speed. Belongs to me until my friend get's back from Iraq.
A:
Sue the atmosphere.
Sue the molecules.
Sue the sun.
Injector Cleaning Service
THE FREE ONLINE INDEPENDENT Z STORE
Email me to add your product
A:
sue everybody! whoo hooo.can i sue my 240 for the exhaust fume smell on my clothes.
Z's are like woman maintenance,maintenance,maintenance!
1971 240Z gunmetal metalic 5sp 4:11 gears in the rear
illuminas and purchased from the original owner w/136k original miles
A:
"Do you know why they brought it? And what they hope to get? Do some reading and it actually makes sense. I think they might stand a chance of winning, if the court adopts the requested precedent."
That is just what I'm talking about.
But like I said earlier, this is the same sort of litigation Riverside pursued against Los Angeles back in the 70's. It's not the first time Californians litigated against odd entities in court.
I listened today to Lockyer defend the action, and give reasons behind why they are doing it, and what they hope to gain.
It still doesn't change my viewpoint that Lockyer should spend his time litigating against the Feds for Reimbursement for the Illegal Alien Costs.
Much more tangible and immediate positive effects for the state.
Why is it bad? For the reason stated above. There are far more pressing things the state could be working toward.
They pigenholed Prop187 and didn't take it to Federal Court. It stood a GREAT chance of passing muster before the supreme court. Had they done that instead of letting it die unlitigated. The cost savings to California's taxpayers would have easily paid the budget shortfall and gone a great way towards mitigating the effects of Illegal Immigration in this state. The lawsuit seeks tens, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars in mitigation and reparations costs. That's CHICKEN FEED compared to the 8 BILLION dollars the Illegals Cost the taxpayers of California. I think vehicles have more of a net good effect on the state than Illegals. had there not been the 2.2million illegals in SoCal between 1990 and 2000, the net gain in population to CA would have only been around 100,000. THAT is a managable increase in population, and would have not required a new Smog Check System---the one we had WAS working till the floodgates opened.
So to sum it up, that's a bit more pressing than suing automakers. Just a bit more than suing automakers, IMO.
Using nuisance suits to address global warming would involve the courts in deciding political questions beyond their jurisdiction. But what the hell, that's what LIBERALS do anyway, go to the courts to force their agenda on ELECTED officeholders representing their constituients. Kyoto is bad for America, and we didn't sign the treaty for a reason---that it's bad for America. To use the courts to force foreign policy is an abrogation of separation of powers, but that isn't what this site is about, now....is it?
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Sep 21, 9:12pm)