Q:
alright, so everybody lives and dies by gas prices...celebrities think they're hip by buying hybrids...its a huge issue right? I dont understand why more people dont ride motorcycles. like, WTF? you're so concerned about the environment an you're all over yourself about your new hybrid that gets 50mpg, yet there's plenty of bikes out there that get that and more. i dont ride yet, but i plan on getting a bike in the next 6 months to a year. Do any of you guys ride? I know in alot of countries in europe and wherever else alot of people ride mopeds and stuff...i guess americans are just too stubborn and need large cars to fit all their sh!t in. just ranting for personal satisfaction, anyone else have anything to say on this topic?
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03 CS Touring
VIN #189
A:
Motorcycles and the eastern 2/3s of the country in January.
Faster than a Motorola
A:
if you get in a crash, YOUR F*#&ED IN THE A!
I have a new idea, lets not
youth is wasted on the young
A:
Why not?
Rain, heat, cold, less safe, can't carry anything, etc, etc.
You have to be seriously hard-core to ride a bike as a daily driver.
A:
true the weather in alot of states is harsh in the winter...but still people complain and complain and complain about gas prices and for alot of them i think a bike would make sense. Americans are just too set in their ways to do anything about it though. Sure they'll complain, but they'll still fork over the 3.00 a gallon to drive their SUVS. I've just come to hate people that drive excessively large cars that complain about gas prices. we're kind of on a downswing with prices right now, but it'll be an ongoing issue for sure
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03 CS Touring
VIN #189
A:
People will all complain about something...
SUV drivers complain about gas prices....
drivenZ complains about SUV drivers.....
Who really cares?
youth is wasted on the young
A:
just trying to strike up some thought provoking issues and complain about SUV drivers....hahaaa
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03 CS Touring
VIN #189
A:
Rain,
little/no storage space,
wind noise,
lack of skill,
helmet hair,
fatigue,
etc. etc. etc.
LOTS of reasons.
Besides, my dad's Prius gets better real-world mileage (40+) than my Aprilia Tuono (37) or my Honda CB550F (35)! He gets about the same as my SV650 (46). Not too many motorcycles actually get more than 50mpg. A Ninja 250 reportedly gets over 70, though!
If people wanna spend extra $$$ to drive slow cars that get killer mileage, why not? WAY more people still drive stupidly oversized view-blocking gas-guzzling SUVs and trucks, transporting a driver only/no passengers/no cargo 95% of the time. Now THAT's annoying. Strange that some people are offended by those who are at least making a modest effort to minimize their impact with a hybrid rather than maximizing it (with no real benefit) by driving a ridiculously ginormous tank of a vehicle.
A:
hybrids are great, no doubt...i think ive just become fed up with people that drive gas guzzling SUVS and then complain that gas prices are too high. It like an oxymoron. I live in New Jersey so we have an abundance of those people, people that i interact with everyday, family members included and most of them dont need an SUV
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03 CS Touring
VIN #189
Post Edited (Aug 30, 5:46pm)
A:
I would get a bike and ride it often, but as a 41 year old Father of two, I have to drive something (not my Z) during the entire summer that allows three people to ride comfortably home in all weather.
The other problem with a bike is; they aren't as visible as most cars even with the headlights blazing, so the potential for scatter-brained soccer Moms on cell phones, or dottering old fools to turn in front of you (I.E. kill you).
I have some friends who bought bikes for the sole reason of getting better mileage than their 15 MPG pickup trucks, however the $5000 they spent on a used bike will pay for A L O T of gas, let alone the cost of insurance, and plates.
IT'S JUST NOT AS SIMPLE AS SAYING; GET A BIKE AND SAVE GAS.
A:
"i guess americans are just too stubborn and need large cars to fit all their sh!t in"
Yeah, I drive more for work than I do for pleasure. My service territory convers 11 western states, Alaska, Hawaii, and the Pacific (and formerly was all territory from the North Pole to the South Pole, East of the Mississippi to the Coast of Europe...basically everything except for the portion of the USA east of the Mississippi)
Oh yeah, a pedal bike would cover that territory SUPREMELY EFFICIENTLY!
The places where bikes are comon are congested cities where people live a provencial life for the most part, living where they work, and with their total travel severely limited by geographical boundaries.
The USA is one of the few places on EARTH where you could actually get in a vehicle without anything but money, fill it up, and literally drive 3000 miles without EVER having to show a scrap of I.D. or cross an international border.
I see Canada is a bike heaven. They must be idiots as well...
(Rolls Eyes)
<EDIT> Oh, and BTW, the people I see complaining about gas prices usually are the people who DON'T own SUV's. I saw a guy the other day who was simply stating hte fact, "I got a Suburban, it costs 100 to fill it, I got to drive, so I pay? What use it it to complain. I fill it daily because Idrive a lot" Do the math on his statement, $500-600 a week for Gas means that guy pays between 25,000 and 31,200 annually in petrol costs.
And he wasn't complaining.
The people complaining are those paying 20 bucks at a time because they WISH they could drive an SUV as a status thing (as opposed to someone who needs to haul sh*t!) but can't.
People project thier internal complaints on others that don't necessarily think the same way.
I have no problem with gas prices, I have an F250 that gets 15mpg, and in three months last summer drove almost 26,000 miles alone.
Don't assume everyone is upset with the gasoline prices, we aren't all comspiracy theorists, some of us realize the cost is still cheap, WAY cheap!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Aug 30, 6:02pm)
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yea i certainly understand its not that simple...but i feel like people completely dismiss alternatives to driving cars that consume alot of gas, like my above post, i guess im just ranting on the fact that i hate SUV's and their drivers
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03 CS Touring
VIN #189
A:
"but i feel like people completely dismiss alternatives to driving cars that consume alot of gas,"
Tell me what MY alternative is: 1700# of tools and diagnostic equipment, between 30 to 60% of which is used on EVERY call I make to a jobsite.
In some cases, I have to load MORE specialty tools in for this job or that.
What is the alternative that I am dismissing< ?
Perhaps you are dismissing the obvious fact that:
1) some people NEED to drive a larger vehicle,
2) govermental regulations LIMIT our choices of vehicles to use, and there simply ISN'T a choice many times.
What is the big deal about using "a lot of gas"? What is your problem with it, are you a bandwagon jumper fearing for the terrible "petroleum crisis" foisted by the popular media? Open your eyes to the facts about the situation, and realize you are being taken in by a lot of hype by a media establishment that makes money on whooping up hysteria in the mob of people who take what they spew and consume it like so many infants on pablum...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
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Motorcycles are good on gas, but pollute like a mother. Bikes have no cats and are not held to the same strict emissions standards that cars are (except California). Almost every bike i have ever owned ran at least a little rich, as well. Also about 90% of motorcycles on the road are carbed. At least steps have been taken to ensure that all road bikes and scooters are 4-stroke these days...
'78 280z -41,000 original(?) miles. a work in progress.....
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I'm not a huge fan of the SUVs either. Seems alot of there owners like to park them on the corner of a street making a huge blind spot and a dangerous intersection crossing. Hybrie cars are too quiet, I like a car that makes some sound. When the hybrid cars batteries go out $$$ and not to mention how complex the electronics on these cars are suppose to be. As for high gasoline prices the dollar has devalued so much that this is most likely the reason for high prices. I guess someone just forgot to give us all a pay increase.
Sweet 280z
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jesus, relax tony D i didnt know you were that easily upset... im not trying to crap on people that need to drive SUV's/trucks. I understand people like yourself, need large vehicles...contractors, construction, large families, whatever be the reason thats ok. But i think you would agree that the majority of people that buy those types of vehicles dont use them for what theyre designed for. theres a huge amount of the population that buys trucks that aren't fuel efficient and atleast from my perspective alot of the time they're the ones complaining about gas prices. thats what bugs me.
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03 CS Touring
VIN #189
A:
"But i think you would agree that the majority of people that buy those types of vehicles dont use them for what theyre designed for."
i don't agree
youth is wasted on the young
A:
I dont care if people buy comfy SUVs. I'm pro-choice. If they want it, why not? Anyone that thinks that a 19mpg SUV is somehow killing the planet is irrational. Anyone that thinks a motorcycle can get better seat-miles per gallon is also irrational.
Post Edited (Aug 30, 7:24pm)
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i dont think you guys are getting my rant...im not a crazy tree hugger(although i am good freinds with people that are)...all im saying is that i cant stand people that drive huge gas guzzling SUVS and then have the cajones to complain about gas prices. I encounter alot of people like that where i live, i guess not many of you can relate?
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03 CS Touring
VIN #189
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hahaa, i expected more thought provoking responses from you guys, i must say im dissapointed........ dare i say, maybe i should have posted this in the 350Z forum
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03 CS Touring
VIN #189
Post Edited (Aug 30, 7:35pm)
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Ah... just HOW is one supposed to have a thought provoking discussion with someone that is ranting? Can't happen man.
A:
guess i was looking for anti-SUV sympathisers...none to be found around here i guess
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03 CS Touring
VIN #189
A:
i would never own a SUV
73' 240z: F54 4.2L, OS Giken LY DOHC Crossflow head, 17:3comp.ratio, N33, Tripple SU's, T10 Hybrid Draw-Through TT @ 47pds, Roots&Centrifugal Type supercharger, 3-2-1 headers, Centerforce 4 clutch, 6oz flywheel, R300 differential, Super-Hicas
A:
I've owned 33 bikes off and on road. I have yet to own a bike that gets any better fuel mileage than my 06 Sentra.... Best mileage(not average) I ever got was 40mpg... best average was about 30mpg...
They only hybrids I like are the propane kits and NGV kits... Or just go buy a diesel VW Rabbit and get 50mpg and call it good.
A lot of americans need there large vehicles... You think I could haul around Z's with my Sentra?
I am a member of BARF...
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Please check out Thanks!
"You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant, excepting Alice"
Post Edited (Aug 30, 8:45pm)
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It's funny to watch ya'll argue amongst yourselves...
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
1969 MachIII 500CC Kawasaki (I think, it was red, and my Uncles)
It got 65mpg when driven in "commuter mode".
It could carry Two People if they were less than 132# each, so lets call that (to allude to Hybrid's Seat-Miles per gallon) 65X2=130mpg.
Suburban can seat 9, gets 12 mpg. 108 seat-miles per gallon, with LESS pollution due to current regulations (SUV is GREENER than the bike!)
Put that in a Ford Product with the 6.0L Turbodiesel (alluding to my govermental regulations limiting our choices...) getting 25mpg and it goes to 225 seat-miles per gallon.
SUV KICKING ASS on the bike.
Now, consider if you will, the 2002 Nissan Frontier Crew Cab, seat Five in a pinch. 3.3L V6 Petrol engine gets maybe 20mpg, but more likely 18.... so that's a paltry 90 Seat-Miles per gallon. BUT, take the SAME VEHICLE sold in Mexico, Italy, Australia, Europe, and just about ANYPLACE BUT THE USA with the 3.0L Direct Injection Turbodiesel..... 35mpg. And that works out to 175 Seat-Miles per gallon!
Forgive me, driven z if I have put more time into actually THINKING about this delemmia than you apparently have, but the ALTERNATIVE is for LESS GOVERNMENT REGULATION, and more ENGINE CHOICES.
Ranting over-regulating, emotionally-driven politicians with an agenda have driven the country down the WRONG PATH as it relates to TRUE fuel self-sufficiency, and for that matter, sustainable environmental responsibility.
But then again, sportsmen killing Bambi have always paid for more conservation efforts than any Sierra Club protester ever did... That's the irony about the whole situation. The people who DO actually just want to be left about their business to DO it without someone butting in and ordering them to do something.
Those that do the ordering, they usually go half-cocked into the situation, and get it totally wrong in retrospect.
Such is your situation on suggesting (he he hehaw haw haw) we all start riding bikes to save gasoline...
Yeah, riiiiight!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Aug 30, 8:55pm)
A:
point
set
match
youth is wasted on the young
A:
> Suburban can seat 9, gets 12 mpg. 108 seat-miles per gallon, with LESS
> pollution due to current regulations (SUV is GREENER than the bike!)
theoretically yes, but in practice, when is one actually hauling 9 people in a suburban? hell, how about 2? Seat miles per gallon overlooks a lot of how people actually drive their vehicles.
Post Edited (Aug 30, 9:07pm)
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I was under the impression that Kawasaki came out with the very first EFI bike and it was a 1980 model KZ1000B...
Your MachIII was a 2 stroke... so what is "commuter mode"?
My AT1 would do 80mph and carry another 150lb person down the highway and get about 30-35 MPG depending on wind and such...hehehe
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Please check out Thanks!
"You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant, excepting Alice"
A:
drivenZ
How long have you been posting here?
"(...I didn't know TonyD could get that upset...)"
TonyD gets upset at the drop of a pin - he keeps a box of pins in his pocket.
Everything has it's place and time - sometimes a Z, sometimes a Pickup, sometimes a Suburban with a 16' trailer, and sometimes just two wheels.
Drive a bike in Houston (fool) and see how long you'll drive a bike in Houston. If the weather don't kill ya the traffic will. Or the gangbangers.
Let's solve this and another "Autobahn" issue -
make all the SUV drivers get out and on a bike, put them on the road with all the "no speed limit" or I'll drive as fast as I like proponants.
See how long it takes to thin the ranks. Be fair - reverse the process.
Should have les traffic congestion, less gas demand, lower prices. A win-win for all.
I'll keep commuting on the bus - it seemed like a good idea but I and another passanger had to throw a foul mouthed drunk off the bus the other day - then several days later I get a foul mouthed punk kid trying to start a fight - because I looked at him wrong for his loud lousy singing.
Yeah - a time and place for everything. We just have to make compromises.
I may have to start carring my S&W .40 instead of my backup .380.
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
A:
i dont post very often in car talk, but on the forum as a whole id considr myself a veteran since ive been frequenting the site for almost 5 years now. I guess im not privy to the fact that Tony D knows everything... my bad
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03 CS Touring
VIN #189
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Not taking it up to redline at every shift, at WOT, and generally driving the bike like an adult heading to work, and not intent on winning the Maccau GP for 500CC Class every time you drive the bike.
My uncle got 65mpg in "regular commuter mode" and admits "when he was young and foolish" his mileage was about half that.
Most four strokes will return over 40mpg easily. My 79 XS650 Yamaha got spectacular mileage, probably in the high 50's, low 60's as I would go 250KM per paranoid fillup, and I rarely if ever needed more than 2 gallons on base to fill it up.
Point being, even with the spectacular mileage available from a properly driven bike, a diesel anything with two or three people in it is as efficient, or even MORE efficient (by 2X in the one case!).
Meaning pedal bikes, while a nice pie-in-the-sky idea only work for extremely short distances, and in town.
Where you live, would YOU use a pedal bike, or motorcycle to go to, say Sacramento for a job interview in Febuary?
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Aug 30, 9:40pm)
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basically, we just think you shouldn't spout off randomly without at least taking a second or two to think about what your typing.
sall good
just take the time to THINK
youth is wasted on the young
A:
"The only thing worse than a know-it-all, is someone who does" -
some ones name I don't remember.
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
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"when is one actually hauling 9 people in a suburban"
The Haj. The export models are equipped with an extra set of doors, and can seat 13.
it is in Saudi Law that the only vehicles to enter Mecca during the Hajare to be "Chevrolet Suburbans, or equivalent" due to their high capacity.
Next question? You are picking flysh*t out of the pepper with boxing gloves, leo. The point is that the same Suburban would get TWICE the return on fuel consumed if government regulations were not RESTRICTING OUR VEHICULAR CHOICES.
You see A point, unfortunately you are missing THE point!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Well I dont live in the city... and I agree with drivenZ.... I personally have my Z and my dads old Kawasaki bike that gets 80 mpg... So when I dont need the car (when the girlfreidn isnt tagging along with all her crap) I use the bike... helps me out a whole bunch.
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Red 83 280zx 2+2
83 280zx Coupe SOLD
1st post 11/13/04
A:
All I can say is: shitz I'm riden the wrong bikes... And this thread will probably be DEL by morning... so goodnight!
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Please check out Thanks!
"You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant, excepting Alice"
A:
"You have to be seriously hard-core to ride a bike as a daily driver." i did it for three years and my dad did it for over 25 years until the bikes motor took a crap..
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1981 n/a 280zx
1952 m38a1 jeep willy's
1971 fairlady 240z
95 300zx N/A
72 240z
A:
I got a friend who has a tricked out motorbike, he spends months out of the year catching the bus because of speeding tickets so one could argue it is the least polluting form of transport because after you've lost your lisence you dont have a choice but to use public transport :P
If you've got at lead food in cars, then a bike is just a crazy option because you cant help but speed unless you get some guttless 250cc bike or something and then what fun is that? hehe
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
"If you've got at lead food in cars, then a bike is just a crazy option because you cant help but speed" when you see one of your best freinds spill her brains out onto the trunk of a car of a un-licensed, un-insured, illegal alien who cut her off when she was doing speed limit, it kinda makes you wonder if you should go speed limit or go slower...
----------------------------------------------------
1981 n/a 280zx
1952 m38a1 jeep willy's
1971 fairlady 240z
95 300zx N/A
72 240z
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Yeah well that's sad that happend to someone you know, but you could say the same thing about just about any situation. You could be doing the speed limit on a bike and crash and end up just as bad, they're very dangerous period. At least in a car you have a ton of metal surrounding you, in a bike you've got nothing but the road to cushion your fall. And then if it's dark you're very likely to get run over by passing motorists.
I had a friend who was set to play AFL professionally (Aussie football) but the idiot got on his bike wearing shorts and stacked it and screwed up both his knees and his football career was over. It was his own stupid fault, but bikes are just way dangerous period.
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
the bikes themselves arent a problem, its the idiots who ride the bikes and expect to be good at riding them, also the idiots who dont pay attention to driving, my way of dealing with it,
"ride like everyone around you is out to get you"
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1981 n/a 280zx
1952 m38a1 jeep willy's
1971 fairlady 240z
95 300zx N/A
72 240z
A:
Ask every single motorbike rider you know, professional or not... They've all came off at least once I garuntee it!
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
A good reason why not to ride a bike?
The old saying of "don't bring a knife to a gunfight" is reason enough.
Riding a bike in urban traffic is hazardous.
A month in the hospital and a year of therapy quickly makes the argument against any "savings" of a few gallons of gas.
If you like a sporty and more dangerous ride and care less about your appearance at your destination and can save a few bucks, then get a bike.
If you need a comfortable reliable all-weather ride that is flexible enough to also carry people and/or cargo, then get an SUV.
The funny thing is that most "green" leaders in the U.S. use private jets and SUV motorcades to shuttle between their expansive air conditioned homes. Hypocrites.
A:
_____________________
Me YORGO...You Not
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The real problem I'm already seeing is the increase in motorcycle accidents around the area.
As stated the gas mpg difference isn't normally much and there are soo many inconviences' it's very hard to justify.
But back to my point, people are buying bikes to save gas, but many of them have NO experience and do not get the endorsement even. Newbies on bikes in traffic = bad, lots of times death even at low speeds.
I love to ride, but quite 10 years ago, once traffic started getting heavier and it became no fun, more time just holding the bike up than riding. Now with a family the responsibilities just do not allow it, even though I could die at any time, that's just one more risk that i can choose not to take.
Matt
A:
A:
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
I got one of those for 14bux @ target for my daughter...
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Please check out Thanks!
"You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant, excepting Alice"
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74 mpg!
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I believe that the Pittsburgh Steelers specifically ban people from riding now...
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>I got one of those for 14bux @ target for my daughter...
Haha, does it get good milage? :P
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
gasoline fuelled non-hybrid
55mpg hwy
48mpg city
Whoa.
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168mpg in 1964
http://www.felixwong.com/news/2006/03/168-mpg-in-1964/
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No: gummy bears are expensive per push...
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Please check out Thanks!
"You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant, excepting Alice"
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old school..
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1981 n/a 280zx
1952 m38a1 jeep willy's
1971 fairlady 240z
95 300zx N/A
72 240z
A:
I agree....screw hybrids, one would look awfully out of place in my driveway/garage!
WE LOVE TO RIDE AND RIDE FAST!
My son Jason started riding early this year and of course went with the fastest bike out there to start with (I cant blame him) with a new 06 Yamaha YZF R1 (Raven Black). He totalled it after about 4 months and spent 4 days in the hospital, took a couple months to heal and just bought another new YZF R1 (yellow/black 50th edition) a week or so ago as he is back at it. You just dont stop riding cause you get smashed up a couple times and you cant fear cars on the road or getting hit or your not having fun. At 13K+ a pop it can get expensive when you wreck them though.
You have to have no fear when riding a bike.
Pics of the bikes:
Post Edited (Aug 31, 2:05pm)
A:
>hybrids are great, no doubt
No, not really. They a fad. Hybrids do not save a significant amount of gas, and they harm the environment through higher chemical production (in production of batteries/components) and energy costs up front.
They are a gimmick of the moment. Around 17% of the oil burned in the US is for vehicles. If a hybrid buys you 30% better gas mileage, and only about 5% of cars are hybird eligible, then you might see a savings of 2-3% if everyone went out and converted, and assuming hybrids were more efficient than the best gas engines, which they are not.
Converting just a small number of power plants to nuclear, or using more bio-renewable fuels would save far more oil. Further, China is increasing oil usage 8% year over year. That 8% will soon represent the entire consumption of the US, and at that point it won't matter what you drive.
A:
"You just dont stop riding cause you get smashed up a couple times..."
One *might* consider leaving a little in reserve on the street, though.
Fearlessness is not always a good or noble thing, quite the opposite sometimes...
I never understood how riding with total disregard for oneself and others on the street equates with "fun".
Passing untold numbers of 999s, 916s, and other assorted hardcore sport bikes on your first day at the track on an SV650, now THAT's FUN!
A:
I don't *think* hybrids are merely a fad, but they will remain a niche of the market.
FWIW, 2-3% reduction in US fuel consumption would be enormous.
And just becuase China and India are about show us what REAL consumption is doesnt' mean it's not a good idea for us to do what we can NOW to limit OUR consumption. In fact, it's a very good reason we SHOULD reduce our dependancy.
A:
Yes we call it fun the way we drive and ride on the street. No rules... VERY FUN!
Post Edited (Aug 31, 3:55pm)
A:
FWIW, usually when you're running in the advanced groups at the track, the only *real* rule is not to drive or ride like an ass (disregarding some uptight organizations).
A:
"And just becuase China and India are about show us what REAL consumption is doesnt' mean it's not a good idea for us to do what we can NOW to limit OUR consumption. In fact, it's a very good reason we SHOULD reduce our dependancy."
But no matter what the US does, even after the two countries mentioned greatly surpass our consumption, the eco-whackos will still gripe about the USA.
Even though we have had the cleanest cars, longest.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Energy consumption is not the problem. That is a red herring, a distraction from the real issue.
A:
Nothing wrong with trying to do better, is there?
Our cars are very clean, but they are also very big and heavy and fuel-inefficient. For a lot of reasons, not just eco, it only makes sense to limit our consumption/emissions where practical.
Our whole culture is based on overconsumption and rampant uncontrolled growth. We should be concentrating more on sustainability for the sake of our economy, security, AND ecology.
Ultralightweight 1500W solar cars for all!!!
A:
And nothing is wrong with someone buying a truck, is there?
What "culture" are you refering to? The USA is founded on "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and the economics are loosly based on supply and demand.
There is no definition of "overconsumption". That is the lie, the distraction to make people feel guilty for just living their life. Just because someone uses more energy than it takes to stay alive does not mean that they should be stopped! You sound like a religious zealot.
For the slow people out there, CONSUMPTION is NOT the problem.
Post Edited (Sep 1, 9:17am)
A:
Of course it's wonderful to believe that we can act as we will and do whatever we want and there won't be any ill consequences. That's the philosophy of Aliester Crowley, "Do what thou wilt." Of course in the end that philosophy did not go well for him...
A:
We are discussing energy only, NOT philosophy or eternal damnation.
Take that to another discussion forum.
Thanks.
Post Edited (Sep 1, 12:47pm)
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About half of all new cars sold in Europe is diesel powered. A hybrid can only dream of getting the fuel economy of a small European diesel car.
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/article_319.shtml
1971 240Z
"Fear is exciting for me." -Ayrton Senna
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'05 350Z Chrome Silver Touring
'73 240Z
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WTF!
73' 240z: F54 4.2L, OS Giken LY DOHC Crossflow head, 17:3comp.ratio, N33, Tripple SU's, T10 Hybrid Draw-Through TT @ 47pds, Roots&Centrifugal Type supercharger, 3-2-1 headers, Centerforce 4 clutch, 6oz flywheel, R300 differential, Super-Hicas
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Hitler's insistence that Germany exist totally an completely on resources gleaned from inside it's sphere of control was a basic tenent and building block of the National Socialist Philosophy (Nazisim).
The justification for expansion to the east, and west was "living space" in order to give Germany the resources to feed it's growing population.
As for petroleum consumption, Hitler took great pains to synthesize lubricants, and run vehicles on such diverse things as wood smoke!
So, if I'm reading Dan's statements correctly, we should follow Hitler's Ecologic Advice, and follow along in his footsteps? Only use what we can sustainably support within our own sphere of control?
If this is the case, I want to be Nuevo-Hess, and put in charge for the "Final Solution" to our illegal immigration problem from the south...
LOL
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Sep 2, 3:51pm)
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irrelevant to bring foreign problems/solutions to the table , give a bunch of SUV's to the average European Joe n after the first week they will take the guzzler on Sunday to the supermarket to show off n thats it!
in home bikes are for bikers..commuters/savers? nahhh.never, let the dualies roar n create incentives for our 10 dollars n hour guys to get a Toyota type of car (CE 41mPG?) I commute by bike cause i like it, 33mpg my way, 38 mpg with an unhappy face, a good rear tire 200 bucks every few months etc etc
Have you shared the left lane today?
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Hyrbid is right, and I would take it a step further and say that we should encourage energy expenditure, where the expenditure is driven by consumer demand. In other words, if consumers want to burn fuel in large quantities, they should be allowed if they are willing to pay $$$.
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Z32dood, we alrady are allowed to buy as much as we want to spend. That is the way it works now.