General Chat
Q:
this a real newbie type question but does a resonator hurt flow when talking about exhaust systems for turbos? Basically if I get an exhuast system and I find it too loud would it be a bad thing for performance to add a resonator? Thanks
1977 280z: Intake, exhaust, high flow cat, header, euro damper, cam, MSD, adj. FPR, 3.7 lsd, F+R sway+strut bars, 2580lbs
1984 300zx: intake, exhuast, high flow cat, headers, JWT ECU, F+R sway bars, F strut bar
06 WRX TR
A:
well if you have a turbo your car wont be as near as loud as a n/a motor no matter what you do. if you want the best performance for your turbo car you want to be straight pipe no matter what. and yes, if you had a resonator you will hurt flow and loose horsepower.
-1988 300zxt Shiro SS edition, 120,000 miles
A:
I know what an intake resonator is. Don't we just call exhaust resonators "mufflers"?
:/
please enlighten me.
_______________________
Owner of the only ALL-white Shiro Special :)
A:
I doubt you'll find a resonator necessary if your car is turbo.
I do believe the ribbed/packed resonators do hurt flow (even if just a little). I don't know if the ones that expand do as much harm.
Mario
1976 280Z - Dad's Z (turbo swap?)
1978 280Z - Stock Rebuild | 5 Speed | Twice Pipes | Gutted
1982 280ZX - Turbo | MSnS-E | 5 Speed | Large NPR IC
BROKE: Will build computers, webpages, networks, MS units, troubleshoot computers for money
A:
their are "mufflers" "cats" and "resonators"
a resonator is kinda like a cherry bomb
-1988 300zxt Shiro SS edition, 120,000 miles
A:
unless the inside diameter of the resonator is just as big as the pipe then it will be a restriction, maybe just a small one though. resonators are supposed to absorb sound but are generally straight through.
82 NA 5 spd
77 4 spd
A:
For the benefit of others, resonator or "hot dog" muffler...
Basicall little to no sound dampening compared to a regular muffler, used alot on race cars and not legal on the street (here anyway) unless used with a typical style muffler aswell. We all know what they look like heh...
I do believe that they would cause some restriction, but far less than a regular muffler but in reality it's better to have none at all and just a straight pipe. If an exhaust is obnoxiously loud, and has an oval shaped muffler already then a resonator is probably needed in my opinion. In my experience oval body mufflers absorb much more sound than round body mufflers. I'm sure the difference in flow post-resonator install would be neglible at best, the only way to really determine that would be up on a dyno though.
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
Post Edited (Aug 30, 5:28am)
A:
i have resonators in place of stock cats on a 91na. it makes an annoying popping sound through certain rpm range.4-5k. is this the charactoristics of the resonators making it sound that way? will buying hi-flow cats smooth out the sound throughout the rpm range?
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91 NA, Black, 5spd, slicktop, Ash ECU upgrade, STILLEN - intake/
exhaust/headers/flywheel/underdrive pulley/Exedy racing clutch
A:
Your sure your engines just not missing?
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
no missfire from engine, it run's super smooth. it just kind of sounds like its got a cheap honda fartcan on it. wish i never had the stock cats removed, it was'nt as annoying before. just wondering if hi-flow cats will smooth out the exhaust note?
..........................................................................................
91 NA, Black, 5spd, slicktop, Ash ECU upgrade, STILLEN - intake/
exhaust/headers/flywheel/underdrive pulley/Exedy racing clutch
A:
Just put in a de-cat pipe and get rid of it all together, neither will flow as good as that :P
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
are u talking about a straight or test pipe?
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91 NA, Black, 5spd, slicktop, Ash ECU upgrade, STILLEN - intake/
exhaust/headers/flywheel/underdrive pulley/Exedy racing clutch
A:
Yeah same thing as what ya'll call a "test pipe" but the proper term is actually "de-cat pipe" like this,
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
Post Edited (Aug 30, 8:52am)
A:
300zxt:
Resonators have a use. The old Zs have a pretty bad drone at ~2.5k rpm if you have an exhaust made that is just straight pipe all the way down the tranny tunnel.
Exhaust harmonics are amplified in this range and you get a booming volume just at this range. A resonator is used to get rid of this drone.
As an example, my non-catalyst 78 280z had a resonator in place of the cat to get rid of the drone from factory.
Mario
1976 280Z - Dad's Z (turbo swap?)
1978 280Z - Stock Rebuild | 5 Speed | Twice Pipes | Gutted
1982 280ZX - Turbo | MSnS-E | 5 Speed | Large NPR IC
BROKE: Will build computers, webpages, networks, MS units, troubleshoot computers for money
A:
Yeah, I agree! I'll quote myself...
>If an exhaust is obnoxiously loud, and has an oval shaped muffler already then a resonator is probably needed in my opinion.
I've found that oval shaped mufflers do absord sound much better than round body mufflers although every muffler varies.
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
I use a Race Magnum Bullet muffler from summit. like 40 bucks. I noticed zero performance loss and lost all the drone I had.. It is nothing like a cherry bomb or anything else that has scallops to try and baffle sound. it is built just like a normal straight through N1 style muffler. Works great for me
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=WLK%2D24222&N=700+302177+115&autoview=sku
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1977 280ZTurbo /intercooled
13.02@105
South east Z shoot out 7 Link
A:
A similar thing to do would be just to gut the cat as I did on my wife's ZX that she has. I gave it a deeper burble so to speak but without the drone. I wonder if it almost acts like an expansion chamber?
Dave
12/70 240Z, L-28, flat-tops, N-42 head, N-33 intake, MSA 10-2002 cam, ZX ignition, early 5-speed, R-180,4:11 gears, 903 Blue paint.
A:
there is an artical in import tuner where they do 4 dyno runs in a row with a stock cat, magnaflow ceramic, magnaflow metallic, and a test pipe.
hp tq.
stock 147.1 105.27
ceramic 150.53 107.49
metallic 151.03 107.46
test pipe 152.00 108.19
the reason i bring this up is now hiflow cats are far better than what they used to be. do wouldnt even feel a 1hp loss between a hiflow cat and a test pipe. but you can still pass emissions with out having to crawl under the car once a year to replace your mid pipe.
A:
You will not notice the difference without a dyno when you use resonators.
1993 300zx NA
A:
Every post I have seen makes the same mistake: they call a resonator a resonator because of it's SHAPE. Or even it's internal design.
WRONG!
What is the difference between a muffler's shape or design, and a resonators shape and design?
NOTHING!
A resonator is a MUFFLER placed in the exhaust system at a specific point to knock out a particular RESONANCE that happens at a particular RPM range.
This could mean the resonator is BEFORE OR AFTER the main muffler element.
While normal practice is that a resonator is usually a straight through design, it doesn't HAVE to be. Matter of fact, it doesn't even have to be anything more than a bulge in a pipe sometimes.
A resonator, by virtue of snubbing pulsations can actually HELP flow in an exhaust system y stopping sonic reversion that can interfere with flow of gasses down an otherwise unrestricted pipe.
Taking a water manometer reading of exhaust backpressure will sometimes show this last phenomenon. It will occur at a specific range, peak, then aquickly dissapear. This is also the "boominess" some people talk about with a single-muffler setup with a can out back.
Where the resonator is placed, will determine WHEN it will be effective. 10" one way or the other can totally change the exhaust note and in some cases the backpressure.
General statements as given above are a bunch of hyperbole, and generally useless.
Do resonator hurt flow? DEPENDS. If you gob-tack something on there, probably. If you do your homework, or at least follow some of the general suggestions some people gave (such as the internal diameter) you will minimize it's impact to a great extent regarding flow.
Thing is, you have to play with it's placement to get the most effective sonic advantages, but as stated above, with a turbo the sound is greatly muffled to begin with, and using a straight through muffler of long length will give more than enough muffling and minimize backpressure for the turbo as it stands.
Bigger exhaust piping is better, when in doubt, size it up. Especially with a turbo.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
"Yeah same thing as what ya'll call a "test pipe" but the proper term is actually "de-cat pipe"
And they call Americans Ostentatious!
Since Americans had Catalysts before anyone else in the world for mass produced automobiles, the term "Test Pipe" was coined WELL before "de-cat pipe"!
Talk about being a market-specific term imposer!
"Proper Term"
Excuuuuuse me, but "Test Pipe" is the only LEGAL term it can be called here. A "De-Cat Pipe" would be illegal. Matter of fact, in most countries where emissions laws are enforced, "Test Pipe" is the only thing you can use on the car LEGALLY and still drive it.
A "DeCat Pipe" would be only legal on an off-road track car ONLY.
Therefore, since we are talking about road cars here, I argue the PROPER term is, indeed, "TEST PIPE".
And in either case, a test pipe is not what the topic was about at all, rather it was talking about resonators. Let's stay on topic, shall we?
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
0.97 HP and 0.73 ft-lbs Torque advantage of a test pipe over a proper current-technology catalyst.
hardly seems worth the effort, and given the regulatory environment of today, makes a great argument for NOT going the "test pipe route" and staying clean, and legal!
I wouldn't bother...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
looking inside a resonator for a 2.5" exhaust
(see any restrictions? LOL)
go for a glass pack
Injector Cleaning Service
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A:
That just looks like a regular muffler, proper resonators have nothing inside and are the same as a glass pack that u mentioned...
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
"there is no logical reason to EVER install a "de-Cat" pipe for a roadgoing (or for that matter off-road) vehicle!"
There is one logical reason, $$$
_____________________________________________________
'76 280Z w/Shaved Head and Illuminas
'83 280zxt w/RUST
A:
"That just looks like a regular muffler, proper resonators have nothing inside and are the same as a glass pack that u mentioned..."
NO!
WRONG!
WRONG!
WRONG!
WRONG!
READ THE POST ABOVE. CONSTRUCTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT CLASSIFIES A RESONATOR OR MUFFLER, PLACEMENT IN THE SYSTEM DEFNES THAT, PERIOD!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Yeah whatever, all the resonators i've seen are the glasspack style ones and I figured that's what we were discussing... Here that particular style is known as a pre muffler.
This might come as a suprise you Tony D, but not every American term is used elsewhere. There are other countries in the world that use different terms for the same thing. Just like your magical test pipe haha, does that morph into a de-cat pipe if you leave it on forever? Or vice versa, does a de-cat pipe magically turn into a test pipe if I only use it for a short period of time? :)
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
What you want to call it is irrelevant, the term RESONATOR is an engineering derived nomenclature specifically referring to the purpose.
Early Z-Cars had Pre-Mufflers up front, and RESONATORS out back.
American cars had mufflers under the car, and sometimes out back.
It's twice in the past week you have deinged to be king and decree "proper" nomenclature when you didn't have a CLUE what you were talking about.
Give it up, the PROPER usage of the terminology is it's engineering base, as exhaust system engineering is what is being discussed here.
For the third and final time, (for the benefit of those here who are slower than usual) a resonator can be of any construction, regardless of inexperience, lack of scope in application, or otherwise just plain ignorance, the resonator is placed to specifically remove resonant frequencies in a piping system (intake OR exhaust). Usually in conjunction with a muffler that handles the bulk of the noise reduction.
A muffler cuts noise level across the board, with the possibility of some frequencies having resonances...
Which, of coure, would then require another specifically designed and placed RESONATOR to combat. Shall I go further in how exact placement is determined, or do you now understand the differences between a muffler and a resonator?
Sorry if, again, Engineering Expertise and Terminology trumps the colloquial nomenclature of the illiterate masses.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Aug 31, 9:30pm)
A:
I knew that was coming... Do you feel proud? Coming from someone who thinks that by calling something a test pipe makes it legal and calling it de-cat pipe makes it illegal when the only thing determining the name of such a thing (according to you) is the time duration in which it is installed is just laughable... You're not nearly as smart as you think you are.
Images of bullet mufflers/hotdog mufflers/resonators whatever you want to call them had already been posted and were the topic of discussion so I just assumed that's what we were all referring to. I'm sorry if I do not conform to the authority of the Word Policeman (you) when you could of just said "no, that is also a resonator" but of course that would be too short and not provocative enough wouldn't it? lol At least you're consistant in all your threads, you just look for excuses to argue with everyone.
Feel free to make 500 more book length posts in your typical anally retentive manner that nobody reads...
Sorry 280z/300zx, the cage door is open and there's no stopping him now!
(Massively long Tony D posts to follow)
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
Apparently your Dolly is broken, 'cause my fingers still work.
The point was, and always has been physical design of the resonator is NOT what makes it a resonator, it's the USAGE and PLACEMENT that dictates what it is "PROPERLY" called.
My first post in this thread was directed at plain educational purposes, and as usual you had to persist in driving and poking the improper usage of terminology, ignoring the attempt at education, or to learn.
Apparently you missed that all three times, and no doubt, will miss it the fourth as well.
:rolls eyes:
"Ignorance is acceptable, as it is easily correctable, as long as people are willing to learn.
Those ignorant who are unwilling to learn, have crossed the bridge to stupidity."
.....someone smarter than me said that, it holds true in this case, as well.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Aug 31, 9:37pm)
A:
Wow, am I seeing a calm and collected response from Tony D? I had to do a double take on that, I didn't know it was in you! Pending of course there isn't 5 more of your posts of equal length on here by the time I've finished this post of mine lol
>as usual you had to persist in driving and poking the improper usage of terminology
It that aint, I'm happy to be corrected if I'm truely wrong, there's just ways to go about it and ways not to. When you bust the CAPS out dont blame me when I dont take you seriously. I had just never seen a funky old resonator like that before, and to my knowledge the hotdog/bullet style ones were what's commonly known as a resonator. Not all of us can be 100% right all the time like you now can we? ;)
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
Post Edited (Aug 31, 9:47pm)
A:
Do
You
Even
Read
The posts preceeding your first in a topic?
My educational post clearly spelled out what a resonator was at 408pm, and yet your next THREE posts agitated and totally ignored a correctly posted, rational and informative post.
Apparently ALLCAPS is the only thing that permeates you...
Before you start critiquing someone elses' style of response, consider your own---for a good 12 hours after my post delineating the proper usage of the terms "muffler" and "resonator" you took no notice nor made any attempt to correct your in error postings and terminology.
Telling me I "improperly addressed" your posts is like a fire calling the kettle black.
READ the posts and maybe you will understand what all the hubub is about.
Just because someone shags sheep for 17 years doesn't mean it's right.
Same goes for improper terminology, just because ignorance is rampant, doesn't mean those who know should drop their level of excellence and run with the mob.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Information overload man, that's all. Every single one of your posts are huge and if I read all of your threads entirely then I'd be here for years. Just take a look at any topic in which you've posted on, they all contain short to medium sized posts from other users and then about mid way BHAM there's about 5 of your posts each as long as he next. It's easier to scroll over than sit there and read it all, you'd be suprised to know how many people do the same regarding your posts, it aint just me lol
Learn to summarize...
1. to make a summary of; state or express in a concise form.
I bet at school for a 3,000 word essay you really struggled to keep it at 3,000 words! lol
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
Post Edited (Aug 31, 10:58pm)
A:
What's a muffler?
Dave
12/70 240Z, L-28, flat-tops, N-42 head, N-33 intake, MSA 10-2002 cam, ZX ignition, early 5-speed, R-180,4:11 gears, 903 Blue paint.
A:
A muffler is something you wear when it's cold.....
'78 280Z 2+2 R.I.P. August 29, 2005
'75 280Z Coupe 4-speed
"Never been there, didn't do that."
"The harder you try, the dumber you look."