Interior Exterior
Q:
I need the collective skills of Elisetalk nation!
My scraps on the front have worn through and are now holes. The flat parts underneath beyond the point of the nose are pretty flimsily attached at this point. It's hard to see the extent of the damage without getting on your knees, though.
I have some options. 1) new clam. Too much money. 2) have a shop repair it (too extensive to be done on the car) and this would also require new StarShield. Again, too much money. 3) patch it myself, smooth it out and paint it with my BRP spray can. DING! It's so hidden that I don't have to do a GREAT job, just stabilize the area and make it look reasonably better until I'm ready for a new clam or more serious repair work. And I can patch it on the car, I believe, by removing the front underpanel.
A year ago when I got this fiberglass patch kit from Pep Boys, I was scared to attempt this project. Now, after all the crap I've done to the car, I no longer fear this. But are there any pointers from y'all? What mistakes can you tell me to avoid? Again, if nothing else I just want to stabilize the area so it doesn't get worse. Thanks so much!!!
A:
Would you remove the front clam for the repair?
Tips
1) Dont use tomuch resin is will be more likly to crack..& be heavy'r
2) Take your time mixing to how will do ^^
3) Get a roller & make sure you dont get bubbles
4) Wait for a nice day.. will make for a much eazyer time..
the glass will dry better/faster
5) Take your time (Not that you would rush on the car)
6) get some body filler & sand it smooth ready for paint
Cant think of anything else..lol
Troy
A:
Well, I'm no expert, and I haven't seen the damage, but you may want to just make a "patch" from behind with a sheet of fiber and some resin, then fill in the front with some gel coat filler, sand, and paint over that. I think that would be the easiest way to do it. Are you gonna do clearcoat over the BRP?
A:
Well, I'm no expert, and I haven't seen the damage, but you may want to just make a "patch" from behind with a sheet of fiber and some resin, then fill in the front with some gel coat filler, sand, and paint over that. I think that would be the easiest way to do it. Are you gonna do clearcoat over the BRP?
Transio, this is what I was thinking. Leaving the clam on the car, I was hoping to fiberglass from the back and make it relatively smooth out from (hand-form the glass???) I have to look tonight and see what I bought. And then do the finishing touches from the front with a gelcoat filler? Anyone else?
On the paint, I plan to tape off the undamaged areas and spray the repair with BRP paint and perhaps a cheapy spray-on clearcoat. The thing is I don't want to spend a lot of money and not really even a lot of time on this. It'll just happen again. But I want to stabilize the area so the chunks stop flying off everytime I hit a cone. And make it look a bit better, too.
A:
Jer,
You will a real sharp scissors (sp?), the cloth that came with kit is somewhat hard to cut to size if yours are not sharp. Also, if the repair is at the bottom, gravity will make it hard for you to smooth it out while it's drying. One good thing is that the stuff will be hard as rock once it's dried, about 12 hrs.
A:
Jer,
You will a real sharp scissors (sp?), the cloth that came with kit is somewhat hard to cut to size if yours are not sharp. Also, if the repair is at the bottom, gravity will make it hard for you to smooth it out while it's drying. One good thing is that the stuff will be hard as rock once it's dried, about 12 hrs.
I'll second that... and recommend surgical shears. If you happen to know any nurses, beg them to snag a set for you after a surgery... the surgical tools typically come in a sterile bag, and once it's opened, they throw away everything, even if it is unused. If you don't know any nurses, then you can get some from a medical supply store.
Cade
A:
I'll open the kit and snip (or attempt to snip) an edge and see.
Would you guys recommend glopping the stuff in from the back, letting it dry, than fill in again from the front, let dry, then sand? Or should I just attempt it in one shot? Should I place the cloth in the front or the back? See, I'm a dumb ass on this stuff. Oh, and getting the jagged edges of the Starshield removed is a PITA, too, in case you haven't tried it.
Thanks again, all.
A:
Another tip: Don't use resin typically purchased at hardware stores - very low quality. Go to a marine store and buy epoxy resin - West Systems is excellent. You'll also have choice of fast or slow cure hardeners - I like the fast cure - I'm inpatient.
Also - I've done some fiberglass work on my Elise and had some problems with adhesion. Be sure to buy a good wax remover and apply this BEFORE sanding. Sanding before applying the wax remover will embed the wax into the fiberglass and it will be more difficult to prep.
A:
I'll open the kit and snip (or attempt to snip) an edge and see.
Would you guys recommend glopping the stuff in from the back, letting it dry, than fill in again from the front, let dry, then sand? Or should I just attempt it in one shot? Should I place the cloth in the front or the back? See, I'm a dumb ass on this stuff. Oh, and getting the jagged edges of the Starshield removed is a PITA, too, in case you haven't tried it.
Thanks again, all.
I would suggest laying a couple of layers, or more from the back and let it cure. I would generously overlap the new glass over the clam (make sure the overlapped area is clean first). Then do the outside so you have a firm backing to work with. Depending on the depth you have to fill, a paste of resin and chopped fibers, used just as you would bondo, would probably work best. If the cloth backing is taught and follows the shape of the clam pretty well, you're just looking at filling the depth of the thickness of the clam material. If it is very deep a fiber mat filled with resin may be required. Best to try to get the cloth backing as good as possible, though.
A:
My 2 cents...
if the area has small holes and you are going to replace
the clam later, the fast cheep solution might be epoxy resin (boat patch)
you mix two parts, fill in the holes, let it cure, sand, fill and prime...
tap plastics and marine stores will carry it and have fiberglass formulas
for auto applications. the stuff is real strong and bonds well to the body.
good luck
A:
I'll open the kit and snip (or attempt to snip) an edge and see.
Would you guys recommend glopping the stuff in from the back, letting it dry, than fill in again from the front, let dry, then sand? Or should I just attempt it in one shot? Should I place the cloth in the front or the back? See, I'm a dumb ass on this stuff. Oh, and getting the jagged edges of the Starshield removed is a PITA, too, in case you haven't tried it.
Thanks again, all.
Cut 3-4 pieces of cloth - the first piece should be large enough to cover the hole. This is the first piece of cloth you'll apply over the hole. The subsequent pieces of cloth will be slightly larger. Add epoxy between each layer. Only use enough epoxy to fully wet the cloth (the white fiberglass cloth will turn clear when fully wet). Strength comes from the cloth, not the resin - use sparingly. Lastly, once you've finished cover the entire patch with plastic wrap (from the kitchen!). This will ensure a smooth professional finish.
It will look something like this, assuming a patch from inside the clam:
------Cellophane Wrap------
.------ e or s cloth-------
... -----poly cloth------
.....----poly cloth----
...........-h o l e-
Another idea is to use poly cloth (instead of e or s glass, this is the cloth that comes with kits) for layers that will take the scraping abuse. I've used this for years on whitewater kayaks, it has excellent abrasion resistance.
A:
will these work?
http://www.ragnorakracing.com/catalo...46/1857876.htm
http://www.ragnorakracing.com/catalo...46/1857881.htm
A:
West System Epoxy is the only way to go. Nothing toxic and bonds beautifully. Without actually seeing the damage it's difficult to say exactly how this should be done, but here are the steps I would follow:
1. Cut a piece of fiberglass cloth to fit over the damaged area on the BACK side.
2. Clean the area thoroughly with solvent.
3. Paint the area where the cloth goes liberally with resin.
4. Apply the cloth to the resin and work it into the resin with brush or roller to get all the air out of the patch.
5. Apply a second coat of resin over the patch and let cure overnight.
6. Mix epoxy with West System 410 filler and apply to outside (gelcoat side)as smoothly as you can and let cure overnight.
7. Sand filler smooth and apply a second light coat to any imperfections and let cure.
8. Sand smooth and apply a sanding filler over the 410 to fill any pinholes.
9. Sand smooth and paint.
GOOD LUCK! It's not hard to do, it just takes a little patience and the ability to follow the instuctions provided by West Systems.
Jim
A:
wow, the things you can learn on Elisetalk !
I've only worked with fiberglass a little bit, for my old RC gliders, so this is interesting.
If it were me, I'd probably try to find a surfboard shaper and try to hang out there for awhile and bug the hell out of them, asking questions and stuff. but since you're in PA, I doubt there are many surf shops around let alone shapers.
A:
If you repair the major damage (ie: structural) from the back I would use a couple of layers of light weight cloth, overlaping to make smooth. After applying resin I would sqeegee the excess and let it cure. I would then sand and taper the edges to make it look nice and allow no areas to catch and tear out repair.
On the visable side I would, as someone else mentioned, make a "paste" of finely cut up glass cloth and resin and fill the hole(s). If they are deeep a couple of coats would be advisable. On the last coat I would go high on the resin and low on the glass and cover (stretch) Saran wrap or the like over it. If you do this real well you will have a VERY smooth surface that made need on a bit of blending at the edges. If you are VERY GOOD you may not have to sand at all.
I used to repair my surf boards all the time back in the '60s. Got pretty good at it.
BTW: The St. Bernard v Lotus is pretty much settled. I get a new clam, front grill(s), Starshield and new paint from the back clam to the nose. There was no structural damage unless you count the seam in the front clam. Being a new car I didn't want to take the chance and have a glass repair let go in a year or two. Doubt that would have happened but... Anyway, the differecne is only about $1,500.00 - $1,800.00 given that in either case they dissasemble the car to paint and check for any other potential damage.
Since the car is going to be apart I am considering driving lights. If I can get a deal on them I'll consider it. Anyone out there with these lights who care to share an opinion? Better vison? Look "cool".? Can they be wired to be independent of other lights? Any airflow issues? I am going to put a modified front plate so I don't have to keep dumping money into the MD kitty. I think I'll take the grill(s) out befor the repair to see what it looks like w/o grills. I may also put a black perforated screen or something in place of the grill. The grills look sort of tacky.
A:
Look for the book "How to Repair Fibreglass Bodywork" by Miles Wilkins.
How to Restore Fibreglass Bodywork & How to Restore Paintwork. Miles Wilkins, (was chairman of Club Elite). New paint for your Elan, Esprit & Europa. A full, practical guide to the use of fibreglass materials in the repair of your Lotus car bodywork. Very well illustrated. The author is a master craftsman in its use. This book focuses on one thing, fixing and painting broken fibreglass. If you can get past the British spellings and jargon, it’s a good book with very useful hands-on techniques for fixing your bodywork. 256 pgs., 180 ill. Reprint of these two long time out of print books. Bound in one volume.
$ 49,95 - £ 24,95
The above is from this web site, but should be available elsewhere. The book was out of print for many years, but is supposed to be available again.
The book has always been the "Bible" for Lotus body repairs.
As for using epoxy of not, that all depends on the composition of the fiberglass. Depending on things, sometimes the epoxy can have different expansion rates than the fiberglass, so you can sometimes induce problems in the rest of the structure of the body/clam or just plain create cracks in the future.
The secret for getting the right materials is to find someone that knows what they are doing. Just going to a Corvette shop or a boat shop may not actually get you what you need. The way fiberglass is used in Corvettes and boats is a lot different that the way that Lotus uses it. You may get good advice from those types of places, but you may not. You need someone that doesn't that that "'fiberglass is fiberglass" - it isn't always.
A:
pics
A:
Since the car is going to be apart I am considering driving lights. If I can get a deal on them I'll consider it. Anyone out there with these lights who care to share an opinion? Better vision? Look "cool".? Can they be wired to be independent of other lights?
I did a write up of how to install the driving lights in this thread . It really isn't necessary to remove the clam to install them, and the wiring is already there, even on the "non-pre-wired" cars. There is another write up somewhere showing the installation of the switch panel, but I can't find it now.
that comes with the driving lights. It doesn't have much on how to install the lights (check my write up for that), but has the steps needed to install the switch panel. Since the lights are high powered high beams, I can't see any reason that you would need to wire them up so they worked separately - you would only want them to be on with the high beams.
As to how they work? Great. Along with the Osram SilverStar bulbs in my headlights, the driving lights really light up the night.
A:
I would just rob a bank. Then, you could simply replace the front (and rear) clams with the CF ones, and have them painted.
What I'm actually posting about is -WOW- I mean, I knew there were some serious car nuts on here, but you all are insane! I can't believe how many people had what seem to be great advice.
Please let us know how this turns out, I'm sure many of us will need to repeat your efforts over the next few years!
A:
Okay, I want to thank you all. The holes are BAD. Really BAD. I will go get some pics, but it's not for the faint of heart. I will repair from the back first to get in strength, then gradually (multiple layers) fill in the front. When I'm done, yeehaw, I've saved myself a bundle. Thanks everyone. I can almost guarantee I'll be back with more questions. It's great to have all the terrific people on etalk.
If I don't do this project this weekend, I'll hit it next Sunday for sure. But now I'm pumped up!
Edit: here are the pics. 1st two of the really bad driver's side, 3rd one is the passenger side. I will repair both.