Interior Exterior
Q:
when i pressed lotus about a wing and spoiler for the elise they responded that the elise had been specifically and aerodynamically designed without a front and rear spoiler and that any addition of these would throw off their design dramatically. they said because of the design there were no plans for a rear or front spoiler for the elise.
That's exactly what I would say if I were Lotus and had just introduced a winged model called the Exige. They don't want Elise customers just adding $3000 worth of wings and splitters to the Elise, they want them to trade them in on $52,000 Exiges.
A:
There are no instructions with the wing, and it's sent from Italy (to Brett) without hardware.
That's just insane in this world of modern customer service. That's like ordering a replacement seat that doesn't come with any mounting hardware. "Its up to the customer to figure out how to mount it to the car."
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I like the way the SCElise spoiler is painted....the main part body-color and the ends left CF.
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Here is a lot of info on the same subject that may be useful. Go to page 4.
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I am sorry to say that I think that anything that is mounted directly to a fiberglass lid is a disaster waiting to happen. I know that the forcedfed wing actually moutns to the chassis, like a FUNCTIONAL aerodynamic piece should. The weather striping on my lid is already showing wear, and with my luck the wing would clip a bird and rip off half of the rear clam/lid. I think for a functional wing it needs to be mounted to the chassis.
I applaud all of the research and do it yourself stuff, but why not just get one that was already designed for it? I don't get it? Is it the look or style that people are after with this one?
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The Exige wing is mounted to the deck lid, is functional and stable.
The Exige has a completely different rear and it was designed to support the wing
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The Exige wing is mounted to the deck lid, is functional and stable.
Only, the Exige was designed to accomodate a wing. One of the reasons it has a fastback roof too! So that the wing can function properly.
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Only, the Exige was designed to accomodate a wing. One of the reasons it has a fastback roof too! So that the wing can function properly.
That is also a good point.
I know first hand that Lotus uses wind tunnels to design these cars. I have yet to hear of 3rd party guys doing anything along those lines...Brett or anyone else for that matter, please let me know if I am mistaken
Edit: now that I think about it I think that Sector111 has a wing that was designed by a F1 guy...
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That is also a good point. I know first hand that Lotus uses wind tunnels to design these cars. I have yet to hear of 3rd party guys doing anything along those lines...
The Exige uses an 11.5 degree wing angle....the ForcedFed car at the Car & Driver Super Four Competition had to use way, way more. Some of these Elise wings are more in the Cafe Racer zone...
FF wing angle:
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The Exige uses an 11.5 degree wing angle....the ForcedFed car at the Car & Driver Super Four Competition had to use way, way more. Some of these Elise wings are more in the Cafe Racer zone...
FF wing angle:
I would think at some point it can not function as a wing any longer, low pressure & high pressure etc. I would think that the FF wing in the picture is past the point of being a wing and has ventured into air-brake territory...
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I haven't seen how the S2 Exige wing is mounted internally, but The S1 Exige wing is mounted to the body, not the boot lid, and there is internal bracing to transfer the loads to the chassis. I expect there is a similar arrangement in the S2 Exige, though it would appear it might significantly interfere with the boot usage unless it is near/at the front edge of the boot. Any ROW Exige owners care to let us know?
Below is a section from the Factory Service Manual (Edit: for the 05 Federal Elise/111R/Exige with the Toyota engine). Note in the last paragraph, that the loads are transfered to the boot bulkhead, not just a couple of brackets attached to the body. It also sounds like the tailgate panel is a bit stronger than the lid of the Elise (it is designed to carry the loads). I for one, would not be attaching a wing that creates any kind of down-force directly to the engine lid without a supporting structure (designed for the load) under the lid to accept the loads.
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Below is a section from the Factory Service Manual. Note in the last paragraph, that the loads are transfered to the boot bulkhead, not just a couple of brackets attached to the body. It also sounds like the tailgate panel is a bit stronger than the lid of the Elise (it is designed to carry the loads). I for one, would not be attaching a wing that creates any kind of down-force directly to the engine lid without a supporting structure (designed for the load) under the lid to accept the loads.
Is that not for the older Exige with the bigger wing and not the one in question?
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No, the S1 Exige wing was not mounted to the boot lid, so this has to be referring to the S2 Exige.
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Is that not for the older Exige with the bigger wing and not the one in question?
Nope. That's out of the factory manual for the 2005 Federal Elise/111R/Exige with the Toyota engine.
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In a different thread, someone said something to the effect of "Imagine putting a couple of bags of cement on top of the wing". That's the kind of downforce that it may be generating. Would the decklid support that? Now imaging putting the bags of cement on the lid, then taking them off, then putting them back on, etc... How long before the lid cracks?
Aerodynamics is a black art. Things are not always what they seem. Who really knows what this wing is doing? Even on a car that's not tracked, I think this wing may be a very bad idea, no matter how aesthetically pleasing it is.
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non-functional wing =
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In a different thread, someone said something to the effect of "Imagine putting a couple of bags of cement on top of the wing". That's the kind of downforce that it may be generating. Would the decklid support that? Now imaging putting the bags of cement on the lid, then taking them off, then putting them back on, etc... How long before the lid cracks?
The Exige wing generates 48 pounds of downforce at 100 mph. Without doing the math (I'm sure somebody here will!), I expect that wing would generate something on the order of 150 pounds at 150 mph. We really don't know what kind of downforce the aftermarket wings generate on an Elise.
Also, I expect the drag at that speed would generate significant rearward force on the mount points.
However, if it is strictly for looks and used at legal speeds, it probably is not a problem.
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Some of the parts some make, sell, or promote are kinda shakey in my view. These wing products don't seem to be well thought out at all. Maybe the sellers will explain them further? The Exige was intended to have a wing. So what the wing attaches to can handle the associated loads. And the fastback shape allows the air to get to the wing in a useful condition so that the wing can provide benefit. Also, Lotus sized, shaped, placed, and angled their wing in a way they felt was effective after their tests and trials. And they also combined this aero part with the capabilities of the rest of the Exige bodywork and the front splitter. Done right in other words. The air flowing over the Elise roll bar vicinity does not see a fastback of a certain shape and angle. It sees the depressed engine cover. A wing similar to that of the Exige won't work right because the air coming towards it is not intended to hit a wing. And the Elise bodywork was not intended to have a wing. That can be worked out somehow I'd think. With the Elise rear body shape, any wing would be far more beneficial if you raised the height pretty dramatically so that it could engage some "clean" air. Also...to the extent it does function, note that it does not seem to have been coordinated with a front splitter or other front mods. If you copy the Exige front splitter concepts...the front of the car will achieve comparable downforce improvements since clean air is being encountered. BUT since the rear wing is less effective if setup like the Exige, you'll have more front downforce WITHOUT a commensurate, balanced improvement out back. Making the car potentially less safe in that case, at speeds where the aero benefits are significant. Also2...wings that give a car say 50 pounds of downforce may not provide that benefit to the car through the pedestals. Some of the effect might be taking place at the normal bodywork. And there is also the drag component which would place a rearward load on the car. Also3...there may also be some effect on the ability of the engine cover vents to move air through them in the desired manner. This stuff is interrelated. Over the years I purchased aero stuff for some BMWs I tuned. Either factory Motorsport stuff...or TUV approved aftermarket bits. In both cases you HAD TO use the front and rear bits together...and when the stuff was adjustable, coordinated F/R settings were provided. For example on my E30 M3 the front splitter adjusts as does the flipper on the rear wing. It does not sound like the parts we are reading about are Lotus Motorsport, Lotus Sport, or TUV approved. If they are I hope that we hear some detail about this.
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I think I've come full circle on this wing issue. From a purely aesthetic standpoint, I like the larger diffuser best. Visually lowers the car especially when paired with a front spoiler. The FF car looks a little top-heavy with a bulky wing on top and the small factory diffuser. No offense to those who
opt for a wing but I think I'll spend my $$ on an aftermarket diffuser.
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Why is it that everyone is so worried about the rules it's your car do what you want , get out of the dam parking lot and find a canyon and spank a vet or evo....Have you ever heard of group B. Do what makes you happy. Why follow when you know you have the means to lead. Change your ride height wheel size add a wing do what you want it's your car.......I've changed crap the second I got home.... To quote a friend " Drive it like you stole it"....tech tips are great rules suck.....