Interior Exterior
Q:
Hi-
Given all the talk of AC issues concerning the Elise, along with the subjective nature of the observations/claims made, I'd like to collect some meaningful stats.
Today I pulled out my Taylor digital thermometer (the type sold at any cooking supply shop with a 5-6" probe) and took some measurements.
The variables were as follow:
Weather:
92 degrees F
Sunny
39% humidity
Car:
Elise with Touring Package, Arctic Silver, Red leather interior
Soft top installed
Windows closed
AC on max cold
Blower on Max
Recirculate set to ON
All vents open
Thermometer placed with probe fully inserted into left-most vent
Here's what I found:
The car was initially cold (hadn't been run in 24 hours), and parked inside a covered garage at room temperature (92F).
Within 5 minutes, the temp measured in the left-most vent bottomed out at 46 degrees F (I'm happy as a clam).
Thereafter, the blower air temperature continued to steadily climb until within a half hour, the temp consistenty cycled between 65-75 F. When I say "cycled", I mean that once the temp "bottomed out" at 65, it would seem as though the AC would shut off and the temp would rise to about 75 (with noticibly more humidity) before steadily falling back to 65. This would occur roughly every two minutes. Note that the operating temperature range of the engine was between 195-201F. Again, note that the 65-75 F is measured at about 5" INSIDE the vent- ambient cabin temp is MUCH, MUCH warmer.
I then parked the car in the sun for 10 minutes (engine off) while I did some shopping. I returned to the car (now as hot as a pizza oven), and drove off. The vent temperature quickly reverted to the 65-75 cycle. While I neglected to take the initial ambient cabin temperature at this point, I did take a measurement a half hour later with the probe suspended roughly 3 inches above the center of the passenger seat. After a full half hour, the cabin had "cooled off" to a chilly 85F.
Note that a week ago, I had my AC looked at by the dealer. The temp sensor was already correctly located. They replaced a leaking o-ring, and recharged the system for two full cycles.
What this means for me is that if my destination requires dress atire any more formal than say, a Speedo, the Lotus stays in the garage and I take my wife's car- in other words, my Elise is essentially unuseable on warm days (and in Chicago, that means May through September).
It might be useful if someone who's happy with their AC were to post results of the same test (noting all variable values).
A:
Hi-
Given all the talk of AC issues concerning the Elise, along with the subjective nature of the observations/claims made, I'd like to collect some meaningful stats.
Today I pulled out my Taylor digital thermometer (the type sold at any cooking supply shop with a 5-6" probe) and took some measurements.
The variables were as follow:
Weather:
92 degrees F
Sunny
39% humidity
Car:
Elise with Touring Package
Soft top installed
Windows closed
AC on max cold
Blower on Max
Recirculate set to ON
All vents open
Thermometer placed with probe fully inserted into left-most vent
Here's what I found:
The car was initially cold (hadn't been run in 24 hours), and parked inside a covered garage at room temperature (92F).
Within 5 minutes, the temp measured in the left-most vent bottomed out at 46 degrees F (I'm happy as a clam).
Thereafter, the blower air temperature continued to steadily climb until within a half hour, the temp consistenty cycled between 65-75 F. When I say "cycled", I mean that once the temp "bottomed out" at 65, it would seem as though the AC would shut off and the temp would rise to about 75 (with noticibly more humidity) before steadily falling back to 65. This would occur roughly every two minutes. Note that the operating temperature range of the engine was between 195-201F.
I then parked the car in the sun for 10 minutes (engine off) while I did some shopping. I returned to the car (now as hot as a pizza oven), and drove off. The blower temperature quickly reverted to the 65-75 cycle. While I neglected to take the initial ambient cabin temperature at this point, I did take a measurement a half hour later with the probe suspended roughly 3 inches above the center of the passenger seat. After a full half hour, the cabin had "cooled off" to a chilly 85F.
What this means for me is that if my destination requires dress atire any more formal than say, a Speedo, the Lotus stays in the garage and I take my wife's car- in other words, my Elise is essentially unuseable on warm days (and in Chicago, that means May through September).
It might be useful if someone who's happy with their AC were to post results of the same test (noting all variable values).
Thanks for the post. I have experienced a similar phenomenon, but I have not tried to quantify it. I may have to give it a shot.
And if you think that Chicago's bad, come on down to Tampa. That's exactly why I am seriously considering tinting my windows.
A:
Funny to read this yesterday I was doing the same test on my cars.
I do not have an Elise yet, but I tested two other cars.
I used a Fluke Temp probe, recently calibrated.
Test#1
Car: Eagle Talon
Color: Black
Out Side Temp: 81 Deg F
Initial Temp Inside the car, sitting outside in the sun. = 130 Deg F
Probe located 3" above the passenger seat.
System set a full fan speed, Max cooling, 100% recyrc air.
Temperature out of the vents was a cool 46 Deg F.
After a few minutes the temperature started to drop. It took about 10 minutes for the temperature to reach 74 Deg F; then I started slowing down the fan. By the time I got home (20 min) I was at the minimum Fan speed, using out side air, ant a very comfortable 73 Deg F.
Test#2
Car: Ferrari 308 GTS
Color Black:
OSA Temp: 79 Deg F
The temperature coming out of the vents is also 46 Deg F.
Unfortunately the cold air blows right on my left knee. The top vents barely do anything. On top of that the car has some serious internal heat loads, just like an Elise; Motor right behind you, water radiator hoses run under the car, Long-angled windshield.
I was lucky to keep the inside temperature about 77 Deg F. At this point rolling down the window is as effective as the AC.
A:
I'm was not happy with mine before moving the probe. After I moved the probe the temp was much improved.
As posted before in another thread:
()
Vin 0038, soft top on, two adults in vehicle...
Outside temp measured beside the car: 116 degrees, full sun, <20% humidity (Phoenix on 4th of July)
Cabin temp inside the car after 15 minutes: 81 degrees
Vent air temp (1'' OUTSIDE the vent) after 15 minutes: 49 degrees
Cabin temp inside the car after 2 hours: 81 degrees
Vent air temp (1'' OUTSIDE the vent) after 2 hours: 49 degrees
My vent temp did not cycle after moving the probe. On my trip into phoenix before moving the probe the car was unbarable (temp would climb over 125 in the car with windows up)
On the way home the outside temp along Dynamite Road was 119 and I was still comfortable.
-doma
A:
Living in Chicago, I have yet to use the air conditioning in my car....
A:
Living in Chicago, I have yet to use the air conditioning in my car....
Like I said, because heat/cold perception are subjective in nature, I'm looking for real data.
People, please don't derail this thread.
It seems many of us aren't getting adequate performace out of our AC systems- even after service. The only way we're going to get this resolved is to compile some real numbers. Until then, this will be dismissed as a issue (which obviously it doesn't appear to be).
A:
Sorry, didn't realize this was a serious-answers-only thread. Any moderator can feel free to delete my previous post.
A:
I have found that the Ac works great after the car is initially started for about 15 minutes. Then, as you state, he proceeds to get warm in the car. What I tried is to reduce the temp knob so that it isn't turned all the way to coldest. My thinking was that the unit was freezing up (like some old window AC). This seems to work. I also found that after the Ac blows very cold, when it starts warming up, I shut the Ac off for 5mins and then turn it back on. It seems to again blow cold.
Hey guys, it's an Elise, not a Porsche. (The Ac in my GT3 is so cold I have to turn it up, even when it's 95 outside).
A:
I yielded pretty decent numbers on my test:
Weather
Temp: ~100F
Condition: Sunny
Heat Index: Between ~104F-110F
Time: 4:00PM - 5:00PM
Car condition and settings
Chrome Orange
Touring Top
Windows up (no tint)
AC blower on first setting
Recirculating and AC on
Used a digital thermometer with probe
Test Procedure and Results
The thermometer probe was in the one of the center vents. All vents open. Car was in the garage at the begining of the test and ambient garage temp was 89F. Initial reading was 45F in garage. I drove a mixed highway and rush hour route to simulate real world use. I notice when I stopped at stop lights the temp rose to 48F but didn't exceed this within the relatively traffic free route. So for the first 30 minutes or so the temp never got above 48F from the vent. As I hit stop and go traffic the temp would climb as high as 59F (briefly 60F). As I started to move more the temp lowered back down between 50F-54F and hovered there as I hit free road.
The temp sensor on this evaporator hasn't been relocated per Lotus Tech Bulletin. I got lucky that the sensor is in the right place.
I did briefly try this test with the blower setting on #3 and it seemed to yield warmer air. Seems like the evaporator can't keep up with the #3 setting. At #1 the air is good enough to keep you sorta cool. As the test entered the later stages the heat soak from the frame is noticable so even if your vent temp is 45F the radiating heat is probably excess of 110F (depending on how hard you drive).
My conclusion is that the AC is BARELY adequate after 1hr of spirited driving. But then again if I'm really flogging the car I don't have the AC on anyway so who cares.
A:
My thinking was that the unit was freezing up (like some old window AC).
Have you had the service bulletin done on your car? That's exactly the symptom that the fix is supposed to correct.
The day that it was done on my car, I ran the AC (top off) the entire trip home, and it continued to blow cold air the entire trip. No measurements, but it was significantly colder than before the fix...
A:
This thread intrigued me so I decided to do the testing too and here are the results:
Environmental conditions
Sunny to hazy (typical Washington DC area August day )
air temp: 95 deg
Humidity: 45%
RealFeel: 104 deg (Accuweather uses this calculation)
Pavement temp: 144 deg
Car
Black soft top (Touring Pac version) temp after 45+ minutes driving:
Outside temp: 124 deg
Inside temp (liner): 91 deg
A/C on
Fan speed set at 2
Recirculation mode off
Air flow 100% to vents
All temperatures taken with a Raytek MiniTemp
All A/C air temps taken in plenum area immediately behind vent louvers
Car was in garage at start
Vent air temp at:
- start +30 seconds: 78deg
- +2 minutes: 49 deg
- next 45+ minutes: 45 to 46 deg at center vents and side vents 47 deg
- placed in recirculate mode and temps dropped 1 deg at all vents
After drive (45 minutes +) some other interesting temp readings:
-Cam cover temps (depending where sensor placed) ranged from 165 to 195 deg
-exhaust header shield: 267 deg
-front condenser coil just below louvers on top of front clam: 178 deg
-rear tire temp: 139 deg
So...the A/C on this Elise works great IMO...the relocate temp sensor fix definitely solved the 'start cold but gets warm' issue
Michael