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The reality is that places that allow concealed carry have lower crime rates. Although you may be at a slightly higher risk of having an attacker respond with equal force, without being armed you are totally at the attacker's mercy. A lot more unarmed people are murdered by attackers than are people that are armed.
That's a very broad sweeping statement. Personally I think it's BS. Japan (for e.g.) doesn't have CCW and there is far less crime there. The US has one of the highest (if not the highest) gun crime rates in the developed world. There are too many irresponsible 'honest gun owners' who forget to lock up their guns which find there way into criminals hands or worse still, into their children's hands who then get inquisitive or decide to show it off to their friends with dire consequences. Then of course you have the criminal element.
Countries that have strict gun ownership laws tend to have much lower crime rates.
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That's a very broad sweeping statement. Personally I think it's BS. Japan (for e.g.) doesn't have CCW and there is far less crime there.
Huh? You can hardly compare the two as Japanese culture is so inherently different from western.
Want to chat about Japanese crime rates and gun policy? Why not Switzerland?
Countries that have strict gun ownership laws tend to have much lower crime rates.
That's a very broad sweeping statement.
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Huh? You can hardly compare the two as Japanese culture is so inherently different from western.
Exactly my point. Japanese are not in love with guns, and your average Japanese citizen would be hard pressed to find somewhere to buy a gun. In this country guns are 10 a penny in your local Walmart and therefore readily available for any Rambo wannabe.
I chose Japan just as an example. I could easily have chosen any other developed nation such as Switzerland.
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I chose Japan just as an example. I could easily have chosen any other developed nation such as Switzerland.
Really? Are you aware of the way guns fit into Swiss culture?
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1566715.stm
Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.
The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.
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Exactly my point. Japanese are not in love with guns, and your average Japanese citizen would be hard pressed to find somewhere to buy a gun. In this country guns are 10 a penny in your local Walmart and therefore readily available for any Rambo wannabe.
Ahhh... Not quite. The Japanese culture is one of honor and politeness, not violence. That's the reason that there is not as much crime, not the lack of guns in their society. If there were plentiful guns in Japan, there still wouldn't be as much crime.
A gun is just a tool. A person uses a tool - if the person is honorable, he uses it properly. If he is a criminal, he probably uses it criminally.
To go to another example, many people are murdered each year by being ran over with an automobile. Are the automobiles evil? Should all automobiles be banned so that no one can be murdered by one? How about baseball bats? People have been killed by them too...
Oh, and about WalMart selling guns - due to the pressure of the anti-gun crowd, most WalMarts have stopped selling guns. This results in a large number of honest and honorable people having to go to specialized gun stores and paying much more for their new gun. But guns were never "a dime a dozen", and all purchasers have to go through a background check prior to purchasing a fire arm - something a person with a criminal record can't do...
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Okay, I'm not going to change your view on this topic and you ain't going to change mine. Basically guns have a single purpose - to kill or maim.
The Swiss do have a high %ge of gun ownership, but they do not carry them for purposes of self-protection, but primarily for hunting. Unfortunately, over here a lot people own them for different reasons. The modern US culture has unfortunately degenerated into a vicious cycle where people feel the need to protect themselves with guns from those who may also have guns.
Having a gun gives criminals and the average honest Joe too much confidence and they can use them from distance (cowardice ??). Having to use a knife (I'm not supporting ownership of these either) or good old hand-to-hand combat will remove that level of confidence and therefore, IMO, reduce the level of violent crime.
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Ahhh... Not quite. The Japanese culture is one of honor and politeness, not violence. That's the reason that there is not as much crime, not the lack of guns in their society. If there were plentiful guns in Japan, there still wouldn't be as much crime.
Really? Are you aware of the way guns fit into Swiss culture?
Precisely my point - especially regarding the statements about Japan, as I lived and worked there. In several ways, it was utopia... in several others, it was completely maddening.
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Okay, I'm not going to change your view on this topic and you ain't going to change mine. Basically guns have a single purpose - to kill or maim.
That's BS. I've bought a number of guns with no intention of killing or maiming. As a matter of fact, I've not even killed an animal with a gun. I've never hunted. But I do own guns designed specifically for target shooting.
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Having a gun gives criminals and the average honest Joe too much confidence and they can use them from distance (cowardice ??). Having to use a knife (I'm not supporting ownership of these either) or good old hand-to-hand combat will remove that level of confidence and therefore, IMO, reduce the level of violent crime.
Yeah. I think knives should be banned too. We just can't trust people with them. A good side benefit of this will be that a lot of people will have to convert to being vegetarian. It's a win/win proposition!
I'm guessing biobaggie considers himself an "average honest Joe" but I'm willing to bet anything he has no confidence at all in using a gun... from any distance.
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That's BS. I've bought a number of guns with no intention of killing or maiming. As a matter of fact, I've not even killed an animal with a gun. I've never hunted. But I do own guns designed specifically for target shooting.
Same here. Firearms are machines. It is the people behind them that are responsible for any wrong doings. I own mine for target shooting and have never hunted.
It's like saying the Elise is bad because it would make a great getaway car if used in a bank robbery. Don't blame the machine, blame the person behind it, same with firearms.
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Yeah. I think knives should be banned too. We just can't trust people with them. A good side benefit of this will be that a lot of people will have to convert to being vegetarian. It's a win/win proposition!
My knives are most frequently used to slice and dice innocent vegetables. I like my meat in large pieces.
In Britain they simply find different ways to kill each other. Samurai swords are trendy.
The Swiss guns are intended to maim and kill. It's part of their civil defense system.
European gun control traces its roots to feudal weapon control. Can't have the peasants running around with swords. They might not behave properly.
Given that guns were instrumental to settling the US (hunting, maiming, killing: French, British, Indians, Mexicans) it's a bit late to worry about disarming the criminals. It's already illegal for felons to own guns.
How well is that working?
Different states (and cities) in the US have different gun control policies. You have the option of living in a state or city whose policies agree with your own preferences. NYC has essentially banned handguns.
How well is that working?
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[quote=biobaggie]Okay, I'm not going to change your view on this topic and you ain't going to change mine. Basically guns have a single purpose - to kill or maim.
No. They can also be a sport - shooting at a target (as I do) kills and maims no one.
It is a sport enjoyed by millions of people around the globe.
We put holes in paper.
Got it?
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NYC has essentially banned handguns.
In Washington DC, they are essentially completely banned. Washington DC is also known as the murder capitol of the US...
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Penn & Teller have an absolutely wonderful episode debunking the myths of gun control.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...eller+bull****
I enjoyed it so much I ordered both seasons on DVD.
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I agree that it is people that kill people and the guns are just a tool for doing this. Unfortunately however IMO the majority of people are not responsible or educated enough to own a gun. What irks me is that it is way too easy for irresponsible people to obtain firearms
I have only ever met 2 people who have had guns, one was a guy with a hand gun that was pressed against my temple and the other occasion was a guy with an Uzi that was pointed at myself and several other friends from about 10 feet away. Carrying a concealed weapon would not have helped me on either occasion. In fact in the first instance it would probably have ended pretty badly for me if he had found a weapon on me, or at best, resulted in another firearm ending up on the streets in the wrong hands.
Perhaps you can now understand my anti-gun feelings
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I agree that it is people that kill people and the guns are just a tool for doing this. Unfortunately however IMO the majority of people are not responsible or educated enough to own a gun. What irks me is that it is way too easy for irresponsible people to obtain firearms
After we disarm the uneducated, can we withhold their right to vote, too? That was the pattern in the South after the Civil War.
I'm going to go WAY out on a limb and guess that neither of your encounters involved a legal gun.
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this is the best post on the board ever!
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There are many websites for gun enthusiasts including AR15.COM.
http://ar15.com/
You might want to try that for a regular dose of this macho stuff.
It's quite the hairy website.
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I'm going to go WAY out on a limb and guess that neither of your encounters involved a legal gun.
You know, it never occurred to me to stop and ask them. There were slightly more important things going through my mind at the time.