Interior Exterior
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Me too. How about swimming pools?
If you haven't read it, I HIGHLY recommend you pick up the book Freakonomics; the author explores a number of interesting topics.
Again people keep quoting comparisons that are off base. ACCIDENTS will, and do happen, in automobiles, swimming pools, chain saws, knives and guns etc..
My issue is that it is too easy for the wrong people to have access to guns. Most of these 'wrong types' are inherantly cowards and feel more confident with a gun in their hand rather than a 'tool' that requires them to be in close quarters to the intended victim.
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My issue is that it is too easy for the wrong people to have access to guns. Most of these 'wrong types' are inherantly cowards and feel more confident with a gun in their hand rather than a 'tool' that requires them to be in close quarters to the intended victim.
I'll bite... what should be done about folks who feel comfortable in close quarters, either unarmed or armed with anything but a firearm? Nothing? Is that how things "should be?"
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Again people keep quoting comparisons that are off base. ACCIDENTS will, and do happen, in automobiles, swimming pools, chain saws, knives and guns etc..
My issue is that it is too easy for the wrong people to have access to guns. Most of these 'wrong types' are inherantly cowards and feel more confident with a gun in their hand rather than a 'tool' that requires them to be in close quarters to the intended victim.
Our point is that those people will find some other 'tool' to do the job, then. Whether Ms Scarlet uses a candlestick in the observatory, or a revolver in the study, she's still a violent bitch. And more people are likely to carry around a small pistol for the off chance of needing self defense than are likely to carry around a pipe wrench for defense. It's just not exactly practical.
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Again people keep quoting comparisons that are off base. ACCIDENTS will, and do happen, in automobiles, swimming pools, chain saws, knives and guns etc..
My issue is that it is too easy for the wrong people to have access to guns. Most of these 'wrong types' are inherantly cowards and feel more confident with a gun in their hand rather than a 'tool' that requires them to be in close quarters to the intended victim.
And if these inherant cowards think that their prey might be armed, it will help dissuade them from any criminal actions towards them. Listen, if you could snap your fingers and make every gun in the world disappear, you might have a point. However, outside of that idealistic world, making guns illegal will not remove them from society, it just makes them illegal. Do you really think that the guns would go away? Are you going to go around collecting them? Are the gangbangers going to turn in their guns for a $50 certificate to the Outback Steakhouse? All you would do is remove a tool for the good guys to defend themselves with. I can't point to a better example than the war on drugs; did criminalizing all drugs remove them from the streets? So why do you think it would work with guns?
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It also gives a great sense of security.
You are responsible for your own security and that of your family. If an armed intruder or group of intruders enters your home with the inention of harming you and/or your family and you cannot defend them because you are counting on the police to do it for you, you become a victim of your own innaction. It is sad, but its also natural selection. Those animals not capable of self defense become easy prey for predators.
If you feel that having a gun will make you more secure, then fine, but how many of you have actually been in a situation where it has helped.
Up until 13 years ago I didn't give a flying f**k about gun control. I didn't have an opinion either way. That was until one evening at a christening party someone walked off the adjacent golf course and put a hand gun to MY head, and demanded everyone else present (about a dozen people) empty their pockets or he would spatter my brains over the 7th fairway. I sincerely doubt that me having a gun either on my person or in a safe back at my apartment would have helped. In fact I was thankful that no-one else at the party was carrying either as that could easily have resulted in my demise.
Most of you will say that this would be reason enough for me to get a gun in the future, but when you are actually in that situation you realize how helpless you actually are. Sure, if the guy had been standing 10-25 feet away, then someone could have possibly got a shot off, but how many others would have been shot in the ensuing chaos.
I hope for you and your family's sake that you never find yourself in a similar situation and feel that the gun in your seat holster or in the gun rack on the back of your lifted truck, will make the perp have second thoughts.
If it's easy for you guys to get a gun, then it is easy for low-lifes as well, and they're the ones that concern me.
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If it's easy for you guys to get a gun, then it is easy for low-lifes as well, and they're the ones that concern me.
I'm sorry you've gone through that situation, and you're probably right in that little would have helped. I'm glad you're ok.
But there are situations where carrying might be able to help... If one out of 10 of those types of situations is deterred because someone is carrying, then it's better to me than 0 chance of deterrence.
And right now, It's probably easier for criminals to get guns than it is for us... I have to pay full price, consent to a background check, and a waiting period, and I'm cool with that... but they're probably paying a reduced price for a stolen gun, and getting it right when they want it.
And finally, the one thing agent.5 and I seem to agree on is this: I'd rather the government fear me than me fear it.
Cade
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If you feel that having a gun will make you more secure, then fine, but how many of you have actually been in a situation where it has helped.
I stopped a home invasion without using deadly force. The threat of deadly force (justified under my state's laws where deadly force would be applicable) was enough to end the encounter and cause the perpetrator to flee.
Up until 13 years ago I didn't give a flying f**k about gun control. I didn't have an opinion either way. That was until one evening at a christening party someone walked off the adjacent golf course and put a hand gun to MY head, and demanded everyone else present (about a dozen people) empty their pockets or he would spatter my brains over the 7th fairway. I sincerely doubt that me having a gun either on my person or in a safe back at my apartment would have helped. In fact I was thankful that no-one else at the party was carrying either as that could easily have resulted in my demise.
Most of you will say that this would be reason enough for me to get a gun in the future, but when you are actually in that situation you realize how helpless you actually are. Sure, if the guy had been standing 10-25 feet away, then someone could have possibly got a shot off, but how many others would have been shot in the ensuing chaos.
Not if it's something you're not comfortable with. Pointing out the obvious - not having one certainly didn't help either. Unfortunately, there are times in life where you just have to suck it up and take your lumps.
Second guessing "what if" scenarios is silly. What if someone had been armed? What if you'd been instructed in how to disarm an attacker? What if....
I hope for you and your family's sake that you never find yourself in a similar situation and feel that the gun in your seat holster or in the gun rack on the back of your lifted truck, will make the perp have second thoughts.
If it's easy for you guys to get a gun, then it is easy for low-lifes as well, and they're the ones that concern me.
Agreed. I think you'll find we're a far more pragmatic crowd than you take us for - we're well aware of the limitations involved and most of us remember how to run. Borderline condescension isn't really necessary.
Not to be trite, but it's a lot easier for the low-lifes to get them. Gun control wouldn't have made it any more difficult for the individual in your case to obtain one, and that's the real issue.
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If it's easy for you guys to get a gun, then it is easy for low-lifes as well, and they're the ones that concern me.
My issue is that "gun control" laws don't keep the guns out of the hands of the "low lifes", they only affect people (like me) to whom one (extra) year in jail is a big deal.
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Different states (and cities) in the US have different gun control policies. You have the option of living in a state or city whose policies agree with your own preferences. NYC has essentially banned handguns.
You might want to check your facts. I live in NYC, and handguns are legal here . Tough to get a caryy permit though. The violent crime rate in NYC is actually much lower than in the cities where handguns actually are illegal (like DC).
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That was until one evening at a christening party someone walked off the adjacent golf course and put a hand gun to MY head, and demanded everyone else present (about a dozen people) empty their pockets or he would spatter my brains over the 7th fairway. I sincerely doubt that me having a gun either on my person or in a safe back at my apartment would have helped. In fact I was thankful that no-one else at the party was carrying either as that could easily have resulted in my demise.
Most of you will say that this would be reason enough for me to get a gun in the future, but when you are actually in that situation you realize how helpless you actually are. Sure, if the guy had been standing 10-25 feet away, then someone could have possibly got a shot off, but how many others would have been shot in the ensuing chaos.
My better half has had a gun pointed at his head more than once. He cared about the right to carry arms long before these incidents occurred, and they didn't serve to make him any more supportive of "gun control". He has taught NRA gun safety classes in the past and knows what he is and isn't capable of (including disarming someone at close range), largely because he has spent the better part of his life (got his first gun at age 5) thinking about such things.
I was raised in a classical bleeding-heart liberal household and emerged with a very anti-gun set of biases. I didn't see any reason that someone would need an "assault weapon" to go hunting. My now-partner had a very rational conversation with me about the subject (without me knowing the staunchness of his views), explaining, among other things, that the second amendment doesn't have ANYTHING to do with hunting, but rather with keeping government from getting too cocky.
And finally, the one thing agent.5 and I seem to agree on is this: I'd rather the government fear me than me fear it.
Thanks, Cade, I thought I was going to have to be the first to mention this.
I've now been taught how to safely deal with the firearms we have in the house. I will likely never be as comfortable as the other half is with operating them, and that's OK. I do feel safer in my house because I have both firearms and a skilled operator thereof inside of it, particularly as hurricanes approach.
So, now, I don't fit into the mold of what it means now to be either "liberal" or "conservative". A comment was made earlier about "why are guns legal but marijuana isn't"? I'm for the government getting out of my life in every way possible - out of my bedroom, out of my gun safe, out of my body, etc. Makes it pretty hard to find a candidate I can get enthused by, frankly.
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So, now, I don't fit into the mold of what it means now to be either "liberal" or "conservative". A comment was made earlier about "why are guns legal but marijuana isn't"? I'm for the government getting out of my life in every way possible - out of my bedroom, out of my gun safe, out of my body, etc. Makes it pretty hard to find a candidate I can get enthused by, frankly.
You're a libertarian!
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All good points. However, you are not going to change my opinion unless you can change what happened in my past. The incident I had about 18 months after the first hold up, in which I was in a group held up by 3 guys, 2 of which had what appeared to be Uzi's, was no where near as frightening and life changing. This was probably because they were standing at a distance rather than being so close that you could smell their fetid breath. When you have a gun pressed to your head it is a very different feeling which no amount of macho bravadery can match.
That said, I don't expect to change any of your opposing opinions either. Freedom of speech is great. And with that, I'll go back to playing Brothers in Arms (Earned in Blood) and shooting a few computer generated Germans
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All good points. However, you are not going to change my opinion unless you can change what happened in my past. The incident I had about 18 months after the first hold up, in which I was in a group held up by 3 guys, 2 of which had what appeared to be Uzi's, was no where near as frightening and life changing. This was probably because they were standing at a distance rather than being so close that you could smell their fetid breath. When you have a gun pressed to your head it is a very different feeling which no amount of macho bravadery can match.
That said, I don't expect to change any of your opposing opinions either. Freedom of speech is great. And with that, I'll go back to playing Brothers in Arms (Earned in Blood) and shooting a few computer generated Germans
Alright, what law do you hope to pass that would prevent a bunch of people intent on robbing you from obtaining the guns they used to do it? Not many laws are going to impress them, I'm afraid...
Personally, I dislike the NRA a lot. But I own guns, and I am realistic enough to know that whether or not I own them and no matter what laws are passed that criminals will have them. You want to click your heels together three times and magically make every gun in the world disappear. It won't happen.
I hope for you and your family's sake that you never find yourself in a similar situation and feel that the gun in your seat holster or in the gun rack on the back of your lifted truck, will make the perp have second thoughts.
Those of us that have had training in self-defense and take carrying a firearm seriously have probably spent a lot more time thinking about these situations than you. The point is that if I have it then I decide whether or not I use it. If I don't have it I have one fewer option. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. FWIW, I've been in situations where I've had to consider the option of presenting a firearm and not needed to. I've also been in a situation where having it prevented a bad scene from getting worse.
Sentences like yours, in which you paint us all as rednecks are really uncalled for. I have a lot of friends that have viewpoints similar to yours. I once had a friend go on and on about how they would never be able to tolerate the company of someone that carried a gun. All this over a nice meal at a fine restaurant. A couple other friends at the table who knew me much better kept grinning, knowing my .45 was at my side the entire time. To this day that person doesn't know I was armed. You'd be surprised at how many people you meet each day are armed. You'd never know it unless you really know what to look for, or they let you know.
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All good points. However, you are not going to change my opinion unless you can change what happened in my past. The incident I had about 18 months after the first hold up, in which I was in a group held up by 3 guys, 2 of which had what appeared to be Uzi's, was no where near as frightening and life changing. This was probably because they were standing at a distance rather than being so close that you could smell their fetid breath. When you have a gun pressed to your head it is a very different feeling which no amount of macho bravadery can match.
That said, I don't expect to change any of your opposing opinions either. Freedom of speech is great. And with that, I'll go back to playing Brothers in Arms (Earned in Blood) and shooting a few computer generated Germans
No one's trying to change your mind. We're trying to make the point that just because you don't want to exercise your right to carry a gun you shouldn't advocate taking that right away from others.
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You might want to check your facts. I live in NYC, and handguns are legal here . Tough to get a caryy permit though. The violent crime rate in NYC is actually much lower than in the cities where handguns actually are illegal (like DC).
Yes, but.
My father moved to Long Island, and was told he'd have to register his guns. He duly called the local constabulary and asked about the procedure. When told he'd have to turn in his guns until such time as the police force decided to return them, he declined to participate.
"More than half the murders in Scotland each year are carried out with knives or other sharp weapons. "
The obvious solution is to ban knives.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/s...st/4788881.stm
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<---------------- If guns were illegal, only penguins would have guns.
I think we've all said pretty much both sides of the arguments here. I'm out.
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someone walked off the adjacent golf course and put a hand gun to MY head,
Sorry for your ordeal, but one thing that I'm surprised hasn't been pointed out: The guy could have just as easily held a butcher knife to your throat and had the same result.
It wasn't the gun that endangered you, it was the criminal. Take away his gun, and he would simply have used another weapon.
Oh, yea, I have had guns pointed at me three times in my life. Each time, I was doing absolutely nothing wrong, and the guy pointing the gun was a member of law enforcement. I'm not sure what that means or if it has any relevancy at all, but...
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Whether Ms Scarlet uses a candlestick in the observatory, or a revolver in the study, she's still a violent bitch.
Best quote in this whole thread.
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[quote=MotorCade I think we've all said pretty much both sides of the arguments here. I'm out.[/QUOTE]
Yep, me too.