Interior Exterior
Q:
Gil said it all. If you drive, you'll get damage. I have a new cone mark on the front that won't come off. So be it; I really don't care that much. I consider these battle scars. When I replace my Starshield it'll clean the look up. Or if I did Joe Coool's idea, I wouldn't have those marks either. I'll take mine with the marks, though, thanks.
A:
Why exactly do you think Lotus recommends it then? Did you think people put it on because it looks good?
Actually, I don't recall ever seeing where Lotus has recommended StarShield. They make it available as an option, but I don't see where they have recommended it any more than the Sport Package, or the Touring Package, or the hard top.
What they did do was provide the small pieces of film that go in front of the rear wheels where the rock damage is most probable, but LCU didn't see that it got installed at the port on non-StarShield cars. Moreover, some dealers apparently did not even provide the uninstalled pieces to all of the people who bought those cars.
Also, it seems that the most damage results from cars with the Sports Package option (wider, stickier tires bypassing more of the mud flap). The Sports Package was new with the Fed Elise and is still (AFAIK) only available on the Fed Elise and the S2 Exige (which has wider fender wells in front). The extent of the damage may have been a bit of a surprise to Lotus, as well.
A:
You're right, not recommended "per se" maybe, (I don't know their official stance, but I thought you had to actually opt out of the starshield, sort of like a "default" option you have to "deselect.")
But someone else put it very well:
"Where I disagree is that by offering ALL Lotus customers the option of Starshield, at least initially installed in port, there is to me a clear message from Lotus that rock/debris damage is a real issue with these cars. To that extent, by offering starshield uniformly to everyone ordering a car, Lotus HAS met your test for letting you know something is different about the car."
If Lotus or my dealer "ask" me if I want "optional" mud flaps, and I specifically turn them down, how can I then hold them liable because I got mud all over my car? I think he got more than a fair warning. Like someone else said, these are sales people we're talking about.
Stone chips are not "self-destruction" of the car. All cars have them. All cars get them. Some more than others. You get to decide if you "choose" the "optional" protection that Lotus is offering you against them.
A:
You're right, not recommended "per se" maybe, (I don't know their official stance, but I thought you had to actually opt out of the starshield, sort of like a "default" option you have to "deselect.")
But someone else put it very well:
"Where I disagree is that by offering ALL Lotus customers the option of Starshield, at least initially installed in port, there is to me a clear message from Lotus that rock/debris damage is a real issue with these cars. To that extent, by offering starshield uniformly to everyone ordering a car, Lotus HAS met your test for letting you know something is different about the car."
The StarShield option was no different than any other option. You had to select it. I didn't and got mine without it.
I also don't see the point "that by offering ALL Lotus customers the option of Starshield, at least initially installed in port, there is to me a clear message from Lotus that rock/debris damage is a real issue with these cars". That same logic could be applied, but wouldn't work, with all the other options. What clear message is being sent by Lotus by offering ALL buyers the Touring Package? That the base car will have seats that will cause you back problems and the noise will damage your hearing? That without the Sport Package the car will be unstable?
Other companies have paint protection film offered as an option, but doesn't imply that they are more prone to damage (though they may, or may not, be). Some buyer demographics may indicate that the buyers for those cars have a high propensity to buy aftermarket film, so why not get the profit first? When I had my film installed I let them use my garage for another installation. It turned out to be a guy with a G35 sedan. Maybe Infiniti should have offered it as an option to capture that profit.
I don't have any real facts, but just looking at cars on the street, I expect that a high percentage of high-end cars have protective film installed. It doesn't mean the cars are more prone to damage, just that their owners are probably more particular about having ANY damage (look at the concern on some threads here about swirl damage).
A:
I'll say it again. Some cars are more "prone to damage" than others. Lotus is offering an option to minimize it. If you don't take it, you can't come back and argue that it's their fault because their car is "more" prone to damage than other cars.
A:
Why exactly do you think Lotus recommends it then? Did you think people put it on because it looks good?
"Sir, we recommend you do not drink that hot coffee!"
"Ok, but I will drink it anyway.... YEAOWWW! Why didn't you specifically tell me that I would get burned!?!?!? I'm going to sue you!"
I will say that I NEVER got ANYTHING that suggested getting starshield from lotus ever. Everyone says lotus pushed or suggested starshield...where?
I have bought many cars and never had one that got damaged like my lotus.
Am I supposed to just KNOW after dozens of cars that THIS ONE is going to get major paint damage after a few thousand miles? That I think is crazy.
as I said before there is a big difference between MAY have paint damage and WILL have major paint damage. I did NOT get the little rocker panel starshields either.
My solution is everytime I wash the car, out comes the touch up paint before I wax.
A:
Your solution should be to go and get a quality clear bra put on as soon as possible, and use low tack blue masking tape on the car until you do.
A:
As I said before there is a big difference between MAY have paint damage and WILL have major paint damage.
My Elise has over 2,000 miles on it and there is not one single visible chip on the rocker panels. That qualifies as "MAY" to me. Cars without the LSS stickier tires don't have this problem.
Like someone here said, "that's right, Lotus recommended that LSS should only be for Elises that will spend most of their time on a track."
They offered a way to avoid the problem, it was declined.
This "full disclosure" requirement you're wanting to impose borders on insanity. Are you also going to hold them repsonsible because they didn't warn you that the car was noisy? Or that is offers a really rough ride? Or that there's no spare tire? Because the DOZENS of cars you've owned don't have these problems? Of COURSE you have to research anything before buying it. And if they offer options that are meant to protect your car, you should make yourself VERY WELL aware, through whatever means necessary, of the consequences of declining them.
A:
For the record I dont have LSS, regular ol touring for me.
Its intuitive that any car with a targa top is going to be noisy, any roadster type car is; its obvious that it dosent have a spare tire, and the ride is evident when you go on a test drive, personally I dont think its rough.
A better analogy would be if after purchasing the car I found that from normall daily driving the clutch would show excessive wear and tear at 3k miles. This is NOT normall for any car, neither is your cars paint being chewed up at 3k miles.
You are the only person I have talked to that does not have rocker panel damage and I have met elisetalk people from ca, pa, ma, ct, fl, nj, ny, nh.
A:
It's "intuitive." It's "obvious." You said it! Sticky tires + wider back + low ride = rock chips. Accentuated by the fact that the manufacturer is offering you an add-on specifically to protect against this. How more obvious/intuitive can it get? You're not gonna tell me you get to decide what's obvious/intuitive and what's not now, are you? It's completely subjective. For example, let me remind you that the MR2, one of the cars that's been pointed out to most closely resemble the Elise, does have a spare tire. Think again!
Clutch wear is mechanical failure and would be covered by the warranty. Paint chips are neither. IMHO, blaming any manufacturer for your car getting stone chips is ridiculous, you're the one driving it. But the fact that they offer an option specifically to protect from this, and it was declined, makes it even worse!
A:
We all told you to get the Starshield but you said "No" You wanted to save a thousand dollars, and you did. Hopefully you invested the money wisely. Now you can spend four or five hundred dollars fixing the damage that we all warned you about. Then you can spend the original thousand dollars getting the paint film protection as you should have in the first place. Don't forget to park the car for approx 60 days before applying the film due to the solvent entrapment problem that will occur under the film unless you allow the newly painted surface to gass off. This is necessary since your repainted surfaces are not baked. This is another reason that Lotus waits until the car gets to the port to install it & that's with a baked finish. Once the rockers are repainted they are VERY vulnerable to damage as the new paint film polymer chains don't fully lock as with a baked surface.
Lotus does have the right to change options at any time as in the 1/4 panel pieces.
How does the front of the car look?
A:
It's "intuitive." It's "obvious." You said it! Sticky tires + wider back + low ride = rock chips. Accentuated by the fact that the manufacturer is offering you an add-on specifically to protect against this. How more obvious/intuitive can it get? You're not gonna tell me you get to decide what's obvious/intuitive and what's not now, are you? It's completely subjective. For example, let me remind you that the MR2, one of the cars that's been pointed out to most closely resemble the Elise, does have a spare tire. Think again!
Clutch wear is mechanical failure and would be covered by the warranty. Paint chips are neither. IMHO, blaming any manufacturer for your car getting stone chips is ridiculous, you're the one driving it. But the fact that they offer an option specifically to protect from this, and it was declined, makes it even worse!
I am only slightly playing devils advocate here, but again *I* was NEVER offered starshield nor did I get ANY literature from Lotus telling me what would happen if I didnt.
Everything you pointed out a person would be able to tell from a test drive, road noise, stiff ride, no spare tire. This is how people generally find out about a car. Not so with this. I have looked at many other comparable sports cars, porsche, ferarri, corvette, mr2 and yes some (i now know) offer a ss type option, but NONE of them show the damage a Lotus does after only 1000 miles.
I would ask you this. If the 2005 honda accord (or any car for that matter) came out and after 1000 miles had the type of paint damage the Lotus does, assuming they offered a 1000 ss dollar option, what do you think would happen?
A:
I have the patterns for the 'spats' for my S1. I had a bunch of them made up at a sign shop for about 50 bucks. I put new ones on every spring. I also have an extra set of clams. I change those every other year. If you want it to look like a trailer queen, keep it on a trailer.
A:
I would ask you this. If the 2005 honda accord (or any car for that matter) came out and after 1000 miles had the type of paint damage the Lotus does, assuming they offered a 1000 ss dollar option, what do you think would happen?
a) I would research a LOT into the consequences of not choosing the protective option.
b) I don't think I'd notice the damage until after 1000 miles. If the car is "self destructing" it should be easier to notice as soon as it starts.
c) I would assume the responsibility of driving fast and through roads in not so perfect condition.
d) I would assume the responsibility of declining the extra protection.
The first car I ever owned, a Civic, got tons of rock chips, the biggest one right after it left the dealer. It never would have crossed my mind to blame Honda or my dealer for this. MUCH LESS if I declined the optional protection and ordered the car with some sort of "track recommended" sports package.
A:
a) I would research a LOT into the consequences of not choosing the protective option.
b) I don't think I'd notice the damage until after 1000 miles. If the car is "self destructing" it should be easier to notice as soon as it starts.
c) I would assume the responsibility of driving fast and through roads in not so perfect condition.
d) I would assume the responsibility of declining the extra protection.
The first car I ever owned, a Civic, got tons of rock chips, the biggest one right after it left the dealer. It never would have crossed my mind to blame Honda or my dealer for this. MUCH LESS if I declined the optional protection and ordered the car with some sort of "track recommended" sports package.
So basically nothing is ever the fault of the manufacturer. You are the perfect customer.
A:
I never said that? Cosmetic damage resulting from my own driving sure is not the fault of the manufacturer in my book though.
But you can go on putting words in my mouth all you want if it makes you feel better.
A:
I guess in Europe, instead of StarShield, they have the duct tape protection option, but the coverage doesn't look to be as good as the Fed StarShield option.
A:
I will say that I NEVER got ANYTHING that suggested getting starshield from lotus ever. Everyone says lotus pushed or suggested starshield...where?
I have bought many cars and never had one that got damaged like my lotus.
Am I supposed to just KNOW after dozens of cars that THIS ONE is going to get major paint damage after a few thousand miles? That I think is crazy.
as I said before there is a big difference between MAY have paint damage and WILL have major paint damage. I did NOT get the little rocker panel starshields either.
My solution is everytime I wash the car, out comes the touch up paint before I wax.
Where do you get the touch up paint in true Lotus color? My dealer says they don't have such a beast.
A:
Where do you get the touch up paint in true Lotus color? My dealer says they don't have such a beast.
Then I would go to another dealer...permanently.
A:
Where do you get the touch up paint in true Lotus color? My dealer says they don't have such a beast.
don't bother going to a lotus dealer. a local dealer wanted 40 dollars and i had to special order it! others have written that the paint is very thin/runny too.
i went to a well respected body shop and asked if they could mix up a bottle for me. the paint tech took down my vin, punched it into their computer and then mixed up a bottle for me. from what i can tell it's a perfect match. He was nice enough to not even charge me for the bottle. ymmv