A&Q about Lotus
Q:
Is anyone running an Elise/Exige with Traction Control and not Limited Slip? I'm curious as to how the car behaves. It seems the camp is split down the middle as to LSD being good or bad (Street/Auto-X/Track) so I am curious if anyone has some input as to using TC alone.
Thanks ahead of time!
A:
Originally Posted by eliseowner2b
It seems the camp is split down the middle as to LSD being good or bad (Street/Auto-X/Track)
Mainly those with LSD are the camp that says it is good. Those without are the camp that thinks it would be bad.
FWIW, I am not sure you can even tell when TC is working.
I would like to know if anyone that has T/C, can tell when it is functioning. And if so, what tells you?
A:
I hope it sounds like an F1 car when TC is on. I wonder...if an Exige/Elise with TC only is in a low speed tight turn situation (i.e. Dtragon's Tail) and the TC is cutting engine power would this be faster through the turn then having a little wheel spin?
A:
I have the LSD and T/C on my Elise. I inadvertently left the T/C on during a couple practice runs prior to the Houston Natl Tour. On the last section of the course, which was series of very offset gates, the car acted like the fuel was cutting out. I had just under a half of tank, so I went to add a couple gallons of gas. The higher fuel level made no difference in the car's behavior.
It finally dawned on me that I had not turned off the T/C. With it switched off, the car had no hesitation, of course, and drove normally.
I leave it on during street driving and have never noticed it.
A:
I am an "Elise Learner" still.
I have an 06 car with TC and no LSD. There is an idiot light for the TC on the dash when it trips or is disabled.
I've got 2400 miles on the car. A few stints in the mountains (including the Dragon). No track or autox. But as I'm still getting used to the Elise, I'm not comfortable yet pushing it as much as some folks can. I still need to work on heel/toe and have been trying to remind myself to be smooth as I can to avoid transients that would upset the car.
That said, the TC has tripped very rarely. All instances (maybe 3?) have been during spirited acceleration where the car hit a gap in the pavement that caused the wheel to spin. When it did trip, it was only for a split second and with no noticable effect upon acceleration of the car (since my car is TBW, if doubt if you'd feel anything occur in the brake pedal either).
Not much data, I know. The original motivation for getting TC was for control in adverse situations. If I had to do over again, I'd probably skip TC. But then again, I haven't had the ABS to trip either, so perhaps I'm not at the envelope where either system should be kicking in. The TC's threshold of intervention appears to be set quite high.
A:
Originally Posted by eliseowner2b
Is anyone running an Elise/Exige with Traction Control and not Limited Slip?
I specifically required a TC without LSD. My appplication will mostly be track and I would think that LSD would make sense if you were interested in doing autocrossing (I am a track junkie do not find parking lots appealing).
Lotus included the LSD option to respond to the request of some autocrossers. Not really an option with Lotus emphatic endorsement.
A:
Originally Posted by Maxster
Lotus included the LSD option to respond to the request of some autocrossers. Not really an option with Lotus emphatic endorsement.
Agreed, but at the same time Lotus doesn't have the resources to deliver the LSD cars in a proper suspension state of tune IMHO. The folks who do employ the LSD, often are tweakers anyways and they can tailor the car to their liking. And apparently most of the autox'ers that have the LSD consider it a substantial competitive improvement.
On the other side of the coin, I feel that folks who don't have a clue about tuning a car with LSD (ahem, me) would not be able to get as much out of it in the delivered state.
And there's an even smaller number of folks out there who have LSD who want to remove it now.
Fundamentally, it's different things to different people. IMHO, dealers shouldn't sell it unless the customer asks for it and knows what they are getting. The same thing goes for the Sport package. The "all options" loaded mentality of building an Elise may appeal to those folks who feel they must "have it all", but often they lack the skills and tolerance to take advantage of it, and they rapidly get tired of the car and try to flip it. That's my 0.02 quid.
A:
Originally Posted by Maxster
Lotus included the LSD option to respond to the request of some autocrossers. Not really an option with Lotus emphatic endorsement.
On the other hand, some of the guys at Lotus Sport do agree that the car is better with LSD on a track. Do they put an LSD in their racing cars?
A:
Originally Posted by Randy Chase
On the other hand, some of the guys at Lotus Sport do agree that the car is better with LSD on a track. Do they put an LSD in their racing cars?
It would be interesting to check the source of remark regarding the LSD. I do not think that some guys at Lotus Sports who prefer LSD represent the majority there (perhaps they are autocrossers?). The limited production Lotus Sports Elise does not come with an LSD but includes Sports Package, Track Package, Traction Control and some other goodies.
A:
The source told me he has never autocrossed, but wants to give it a try sometime when he comes to the states. I would trust this source. I also have tracked my car with LSD and don't feel like I am giving ANYTHING up to another car because of it.
I know at Buttonwillow, I no longer get wheel spin on "sunrise" which I used to.
A:
Originally Posted by Randy Chase
I also have tracked my car with LSD and don't feel like I am giving ANYTHING up to another car because of it.
It seems to me that you have had the opportunity to use LSD with TC but had not really benchmarked the LSD without TC nor the TC in stand alone.
At any rate, I do not want to feed a discussion for which there is no universal answer since we all have our personal driving style and bias.
I favor the open differential with TC for my application. If you feel more comfortable with your set up, great!
A:
Right. sort of. I have tracked the car without LSD and the car with LSD. I have never tracked the car with TC. My TC is turned off permanently.
I agree that is somewhat subjective, my main point was to counter the thought that "Lotus" does not think it is a good thing.
A:
Originally Posted by Randy Chase
I agree that is somewhat subjective, my main point was to counter the thought that "Lotus" does not think it is a good thing.
Lotus has no single view on LSD, there are different constituencies within. I want to counter the implication that everybody at Lotus is pro LSD (unless you are referring to the mood enhancer of the '60s or '70s)
A:
Originally Posted by JnC
But then again, I haven't had the ABS to trip either, so perhaps I'm not at the envelope where either system should be kicking in.
Not to totally side track this thread, but if you haven't had the ABS kick in, you find some lonely stretch of road and test it. Get you car up to 60 or so, and stand on the brakes (make sure there is no one behind you). You will be very pleasantly surprised at how extremely powerful the Elise's brakes are. It took me at least three tries to get the ABS to kick in, because I would brake harder than I could in a regular car, and still not kick in the ABS. When you actually find out how hard you can apply the brakes and how well the car can actually stop, you will be impressed.
A:
Originally Posted by TimMullen
You will be very pleasantly surprised at how extremely powerful the Elise's brakes are. It took me at least three tries to get the ABS to kick in, because I would brake harder than I could in a regular car, and still not kick in the ABS. When you actually find out how hard you can apply the brakes and how well the car can actually stop, you will be impressed.
And when you are up to it, try trail braking the car into a turn. Holy Mackerel!
A:
just had the 1000 mile service on 06 exige with TC no LSD and had the car out for a few laps around the local auto X - go kart track. first laps all ran with TC on and hard acceleration out of tight 1st gear corners was excellent, no drama just floor throttle and go. turned of TC and car would spin inside tire out of 1st gear corners, I would give the lotus high marks for this TC, I don't plan to auto X this car, my plan is to run it on some track days and I will probably run with TC on.
A:
I left it on for almost 4 months and just started to play with it off the other day. The car feels sooooo much better with it off. I really hate the feeling when it cuts power and I've found that it gets confused some times at part throttle when going in a straight line. Honestly, there really isn't enough power to unstick the rear end once the tires are up to temp and the road is dry. I spent a few hours this afternoon trying to and unless I do something completely retarded, it just sticks. A couple of hours of canyons and I felt dizzy.
Most of my driving is high 2nd gear and just into 3rd before some heavy braking into the next corner, so it's probably not quite as tight as an autoX.
-Steve
A:
Originally Posted by Randy Chase
The source told me he has never autocrossed, but wants to give it a try sometime when he comes to the states. I would trust this source. I also have tracked my car with LSD and don't feel like I am giving ANYTHING up to another car because of it.
I know at Buttonwillow, I no longer get wheel spin on "sunrise" which I used to.
I received similar info from a very knowledgeable source at Lotus Sport UK. Having tracked my previous '05 Elise with no LSD and now my Exige with LSD, I also agree with Randy that I'm not giving anything up with the option and, in fact, I have experienced benefits from the LSD in certain track situations. LSD is definitely not just an autocross option given my firsthand experience.
A:
Jack,
You are a good candidate for information on this thread since you have driven a nonLSD and LSD car. Did you drive them on the same track? What situations can you notice a difference?
A:
I'm not suprised at the performance of the TC.. we do have the racelogic unit built into our ecus..