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A&Q about Lotus

Q: I never got a 3rd key either.

Heidi, good lord I'd be embarassed to go back and post my tape. "Babying it", at least compared to me, doesn't begin to explain the differences, except I had no standing starts. Wow you used a lot of self restraint.
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Originally Posted by scottyb Heidi,

When I went for my service, they didn't offer me the 10% discount, nor the paint warranty. Hell I didn't even get the print out. Now I'm getting Jelous! The 10% discount is a coupon attached to the bottom of the printout for the bill. Must be something new - never got a coupon before! But I imagine they have to honor it. The paint warranty and tire/rim warranty were a "1 time only" deal when I picked up the car. A few hundred each, but I thought it might be worth it. And I ASKED for the printout when I brought the car in. Was very specific about wanting it. I'm surprised that you didn't get the same things!

Originally Posted by Ridgemanron Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminus
errr...
What 3rd key? I have 2 keys w/alarm fobs.

- You're supposed to have
a small 'emergency' key that is quite small....only being metal ....that I keep
tucked away in my wallet.
Actually, it's much more than that. See the picture. (Picture doesn't show very clear. It's the flat key thing, plus the entire round part it fits into. Seems to be the whole lock thing) And when I asked for the extra pieces of film that came with the car but weren't installed because it had the starshield put on they didn't fuss at all. They had them, found them, and put them in the car for me. Second layer going on the rocker panels for sure!
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Originally Posted by heidi528 And I ASKED for the printout when I brought the car in. Was very specific about wanting it. I'm surprised that you didn't get the same things!! I had to ask for the printout too. I think I caught 'em by surprise -- they (Ferrari/Lotus of Denver) kind of hesitated when I asked, but didn't give me any hassle about it. Star Motor Cars (where I bought my car) gave me the initial "test" printout from the factory as part of the pile of documents I received at delivery. Originally Posted by heidi528 Actually, it's much more than that. See the picture. (Picture doesn't show very clear. It's the flat key thing, plus the entire round part it fits into. Seems to be the whole lock thing) D@mn, I'm jealous! I got the third key, but they didn't have a lock cylinder attached! I wonder if the same cylinder fits all three locks. hmmmm?
Originally Posted by heidi528 FASTEST 0-100 KMH
25.5 s

FASTEST 0-160 KMH
25.5 s) This must be a default. Mine was identical, and the two figures being the same are not likely to be a true reading.

How's your weather up there in CT, Heidi? Are you getting any dry and salt-less time on the road with your new baby?
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Alas, snow Sunday/Monday, snow again last night. My town doesn't seem to use a lot of salt, but they do get carried away with sand. Drove it for the check-up yesterday, the meet on Sunday before the snow. It will be sitting for a few days now while the sand is sitting on the roads. Must be why I've had the car 3 months and only have a tad over 1100 miles.

So no one else got the cylinder? (Now that I know what it's called.) It was in a sealed bag with the key and tag; still is. Found way under the passenger seat by the tech guy. And I had been under there cleaning, but never noticed it.

As for the last bit of data, maybe it is a default? I was thinking I need to learn to shift a lot faster, if it takes me that long to reach highway speed!

Better (?) photo. Blurred out the barcode for 'safety'
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So am I the only one who got cylinder and all?
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i've had two elises, and only seen the key part for the 3rd key, new to me.
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Originally Posted by charliex i've had two elises, and only seen the key part for the 3rd key, new to me. Great. With my luck, this is probably some crucial part that should have been installed in the car already!
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do the doors swing wildy open when you corner ?

more then likely you're supposed to get it, though if its the same cylinder thats on the car now, that does seem kinda odd, if its different, maybe the dealer swapped it for some reason
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All parts seem attached so far. What makes this so interesting is that the metal "key" is inserted in the cylinder, and along with the tag they are in a factory sealed bag.

I was present when another person picked up their Elise, and he was given that metal key along with the tag, but no cylinder or bag. My salesperson was unaware of a third key to begin with. It was only when I saw the key at the other delivery that I knew about it and asked. My salesperson has been trying to get me that third key, and it was found yesterday, in the car, during service. The fact that it was "hidden" - probably fell off the dash - leads me to think it's nothing the dealer was supposed to worry about himself, as in a part that needed to be installed, or else it would have been with the other two keys. At least I hope that's the answer. But then how come no one else has this? Or have the dealers just kept them?
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Originally Posted by charliex it looks like the data maybe password protected, as well as it being a federal offence to change it, from what lotus engineers says anyway

however if you want to build a device for it, you can crack the code (if one exists ) and not get caught up in the DMCA.
DMCA does not apply to reverse engineering; only to copy protected works. you can reverse engineer the ECM to your hearts content....
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DMCA does not apply to reverse engineering; only to copy protected works. you can reverse engineer the ECM to your hearts content....

it does when you have to crack the username/password, since they can use that as the "copyprotection", its a pretty common way to include your device under DMCA.

but you are allowed to crack it for research or for device interopability.


long version


When creative expression is protected by a technological protection measure, the situation becomes even more complex. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) generally prohibits circumvention of technological protection measures. On its face, since circumvention is generally required for reverse engineering, this prohibition would prevent reverse engineering of those measures that control access to a copyrighted work. The DMCA contains a limited exception to the ban on circumvention, which permits reverse engineering of the technology by specific classes of people for limited purposes [17 USC §1201(f)]. The exception allows reverse engineering of computer programs if the reverse engineer lawfully obtains the program, seeks permission from the copyright owner, only uses the results of their efforts to create an interoperable computer program and does not publish the results. The resulting program must only interoperate with the reverse engineered software, however, and cannot interoperate with the technologically protected content (movie, book, video game, etc.) itself. Under the DMCA, engineers may also develop programs that facilitate reverse engineering for their own use or the use of others if they meet the above test. Reverse engineers must carefully consider their planned work and whether it fits into the exception, because the exception is far too narrow to be useful for many reverse engineering needs.
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Originally Posted by Ground Loop Dude.. in present company, that's considered babying it. You'll have to try harder before you can wear size "A" Agressive.

As far as I know, nobody in all of EliseTalk has actually gotten a talking-to from their ECU download. And there are a few motorman fans here...
I have a feeling I might be in the rare and unusual category of getting a talk-to about my ECU download... The dealer has asked me to come in and review the ECU dump with them Saturday. I bought the car from a dealer with 400 miles on. I am assuming those 400 miles were pretty tough 'Demo' miles, especially as it is a 2005 model. By the way a # of things started to break around 3000 miles.. it is looking like it might have had a rough initial life... We shall see in 2 days… I will make sure to get the print out and let everyone know what the result is.
--B
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I'm not sure why everyone is trying so hard to baby the drivetrain during break in. I understand that there's a few different theories on breaking a new engine in, but super babying it is most likely not the best method.

One theory on break in actually recommends pushing an engine as hard as ever during initial break in to properly seat the piston rings. Babying it may not get the rings aligned and seated properly which may cause loss of some hpower, as well as, oil leaking into the combustion chamber at some point down the line of the engine's life. During this method, multiple oil changes are recommended at very short intervals to cleanse the engine of oil that will undoubtedly have minute metal shavings and impurities.

Another, rather more straight edge and vastly supported method, is to balance between gentle throttle control and spirited driving during the break in. The 2005 Elise manual even recommends this. The manual actually states to avoid using more than 50% of the possible throttle and to avoid driving the car over 4,000 RPM for extended periods of time but to also use the entire RPM range as well as all of the gears as often as possible during break in.

I think, perhaps, that overly babying it may actually result in worse results than what was the intention of the owner. Does anyone have any input? Perhaps comparing dyno numbers to equally old engines with different break in methods would be best.
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i've heard one theory that seems reasonable that during the break in period the ECU is the one that needs to settle in, not so much the engine, as they roll off with no or little learn. lotus have always told me go over the range just don't floor it for long periods.
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I'd hate to see what my dump was after the service. I think I dumped the clutch about once a week! And I have been over 140 on public hwys, not proud, but can you imagine the giggles i'd get if i asked them to replace my clutch?

ha, shaa, as if

shag her rotten


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Using the criteria LUSA gave me of power train voiding of my warranty, I figured mine was shot on my new car right away, so I decided to have fun and forget about it.
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Originally Posted by Dvas I'm not sure why everyone is trying so hard to baby the drivetrain during break in. I understand that there's a few different theories on breaking a new engine in, but super babying it is most likely not the best method.

One theory on break in actually recommends pushing an engine as hard as ever during initial break in to properly seat the piston rings. Babying it may not get the rings aligned and seated properly
Yeah, you guys are babying it. While the Toyota engine is ready to run at max power right out of the box, I would suggest a gradual break in. Keep the RPM's below 5K until 1000km (600 m) to get the bearings and moving parts of the engine lapped in. 600m peak on shift to 6k and sustain 5k, 700m 7k, 6k, 800m 8k, 7k, 900m,8.5k 8k. Use all 6 gears, but keep the RPMs above 2k to avoid lugging. This process will gradually lap in the rings as Dvas suggests. By 1000m the engine is broken in. Change the engine and transmission oil.

As you put on additional miles, occasionally peak at red line to keep the rings lapped in. I have used this process on several assorted cars and a truck and they all have made 100k miles with the engine in like new condition. This car was not designed to be babied. Get those RPMs up!! -KG
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i think also another reason for taking it easy before the first service is just in case there are loose nuts and bolts
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Originally Posted by charliex i think also another reason for taking it easy before the first service is just in case there are loose nuts and bolts
The only loose nut in my car is behind the wheel!
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I only got one key at all, from Prestige Imports. And they must have left my car outside in a hurricane or something because I supposedly have rusty ignition coils? My car is throwing multiple codes already and there are only 3500 miles on it.