A&Q about Lotus
Q:
Originally Posted by Trueweb
Interesting you say that... phonetically it does sound that way, lood-a-kris instead of lood-i-krous. Now you have to wonder, is that how he got his name?
hee hee, the theft continues!
BTW, in regard to your lease question I found the following link
I ran the calculator with the following:
$48,000 MSRP
$48,000 Neg. Price
$0 Cost added (couldn't think of what they might add)
$3,000 down
$30,000 Residual value (3 year old Elise, probably low)
36 months
4.5% sales tax
The total with tax was around $570
That's definitely not the right lease figures for a Lotus Elise. What was the money factor that you use and what residual? There's also drive offs associated with this and other misc. fees.
A:
Originally Posted by bmw1
That's definitely not the right lease figures for a Lotus Elise. What was the money factor that you use and what residual? There's also drive offs associated with this and other misc. fees.
I've never leased a car before, so I was shooting from the hip. The calculator comes up with those numbers as you go along, I think...
If you go to the calculator and put my numbers in you can get the same results. I believe I used $30,000 residual (63%) and a Money Factor of .00271 (6.5%)
OK don't ask me how, but this time I got $650... figured it out I used 4.5% instead of 6.5% for the Money Factor, makes a big difference!
Edit: Any estimates on the "other fees" you mention, drive-offs, misc, etc...?
A:
Originally Posted by Trueweb
I've never leased a car before, so I was shooting from the hip. The calculator comes up with those numbers as you go along, I think...
If you go to the calculator and put my numbers in you can get the same results. I believe I used $30,000 residual (63%) and a Money Factor of .00271 (6.5%)
OK don't ask me how, but this time I got $650... figured it out I used 4.5% instead of 6.5% for the Money Factor, makes a big difference!
I've used that sight plenty of times to do a deal with BMW cars as they're pretty simple but, Lotus will be totally different. Try using a money factor of .00425 and a residual of maybe 30% Now you know what a Lotus lease really looks like. Chase Manhattan is the only bank I know that will do a closed end lease. The others Putnam and Premier Financial Leasing are open end leases.
A:
Wow, I'm happy to see so many people trying to help me out in getting a Lotus! But, I'll be honest, right now is not the time for me to spending even $570 per month on a car, esecially one as impractical as this one. I wanted to see where I was at, and now I know, as I never have been quoted on a lease/finance deal on an Elise. Like I said before, I will just have to save up some more money. But, I'll always be looking on ebay for a Lotus!
A:
The question is why are the residuals so low here in the US when it appears that Elises lease well in the UK? Is it the fact that corporate purchases there support residuals? If BMW, Mercedes and Porsche can support low 50's %residuals, couldn't Lotus at least support low 40's?
Here's a bad deal from this month's Maserati e-newsletter: Quattroporte lists for $119k; the lease deal is $5040 first month, plus 47 months at $1,899. That's about $93-94k, so they must also have about a 30% residual; whereas a Porsche Cayenne TT has a residual of around 53%. Crazy. If Lotus would support a lease of around $750-$775/month for 36 months - possible if $48 car sold at $43 and fair residual (i.e., low-to 40% range), they could get rid of a lot of cars.
A:
The poor residuals maybe fallout from the leasing trend of the late 90s and early 2000s. Back then, many lending company grossly overstimated the residuals and when the wave of lease returns came, the market was flood.
I don't think Lotus or Lotus USA is capable of supporting a leasing program...at lease not for the immediate future. Now if they found a lender, but thier volumes is so small.
A:
Originally Posted by iwantanelise
Wow, I'm happy to see so many people trying to help me out in getting a Lotus! But, I'll be honest, right now is not the time for me to spending even $570 per month on a car, esecially one as impractical as this one. I wanted to see where I was at, and now I know, as I never have been quoted on a lease/finance deal on an Elise. Like I said before, I will just have to save up some more money. But, I'll always be looking on ebay for a Lotus!
Something you might consider is picking up a used MR-2 Turbo for cash, or MR-2 Spyder if you have more cash or can finance a small amount. Both cars are pretty fun to drive, small, lightweight, etc. and might be a nice holdover car until you are ready to take on the L-car. You could probably finance an MR-2 Spyder and have a payment well under $200 a month.
A:
Originally Posted by iwantanelise
So, I went to a Lotus dealership, and was quoted at roughly $900 per month, with $3000 out of pocket, and I forgot to get the length of the term. But, looking around at other vehicles in the market, this price seems a little ludacris for a $48,000 car. Plus, the milage limit was around 7,500 miles per year...no thanks at this rate! Thoughts, opinions, suggestions??
I have 2 questions for you. How is your credit rating and do you have $10K+ to put down? In my situation I had $15K available from selling(not trading-in at a dealer) my previous car and got a loan for $21K. That makes $36K. I shopped around and got a deal on a brand new '05 elise SB Touring for $41K. So I put only $5K out of pocket and bought the vehicle outright. My loan through State Farm was a 5 year at around 6.3%(i forget off hand), which roughly translates into $419 a month.
Good Luck!
A:
Imoz...I am happy with my current (leased) car right now..Crossfire.
Nugg_Dawg...Your technique looks very attractive to me!
Basically, the Crossfire is due in July '06. I'm just looking around at prices. The thing is...I can probably buy-out my Crossfire at the end of the lease for an excellent price simply because NEW Crossfires are for sale for anywhere from $10,000-15,000 off MSRP. Then, I might try to resell to gain some money back, if any. From there we can look at the Lotus.
Oooo...I forgot to mention how I think in a couple of years used Elises will be available at anywhere from $28,000 to $35,000 simply by looking at the residuals. So, just waiting for a nice used one would be fine as well. There's no rush in getting one anyway!
A:
Originally Posted by iwantanelise
too bad I don't own a house!! I was expecting $750 per month at most, but not $900...thanks for the advice and I guess I'll just have to save up a bit more for it!
You could borrow from your 401k. Then you pay the interest to yourself AND by taking money away from the stock market, you're protecting yourself against the KABLAM that's going on right now.
(Oh, and just because a famous rapper spelled it that way doesn't mean that's how you should spell 'ludicrous')
A:
Originally Posted by fishguyAZ
if you own a house , take out a credit line(or refinance) and use that $ to buy the car outright. the interest you pay is tax deductable.
I have a few thoughts about this scenario. 1) What about the closing costs associated with obtaining the loan? 2) Many HELOCs are at a higher interest rate than what one could get for an auto loan through a credit union. Unless you are in a very high tax bracket, even after the tax-deduction one would still be paying a higher effective interest rate. 3) Unless one is disciplined enough to pay off that portion of your HELOC on an equivalent amortization schedule, one would end up paying for the car well longer than they would through a retail auto loan. 4) The amount of equity you have available to use in the event of an emergency or a substantial home improvement/repair project would be greatly reduced. 5) What if the real-estate market has a correction or crashes altogether (although, unlikely in my area) and then one owe more than what one can get for one's house? All these are reasons why I chose a retail loan through my credit union over using home equity. I would have preferred leasing, but whatever money factor they were using was ungodly and it would have cost me nearly $9K more over the life of the lease.
A:
Originally Posted by Allan Gibbs
Have you tried your credit union? Some of them still have interest rates at 4.7%. Spread over 72 or even 84 months, you could be in the high $600 a month range.
I agree - this is the best way to go (I don't have a house so all the home loan stuff doesn't apply for me either), and is what I did. The longer terms and lower interest rate at the credit union are what made this car affordable to me (seeing as I didn't have a huge amount to put down and needed a lower payment). Originally I was thinking that I would be a good lease candidate, but was glad to find out that purchasing was an option!
Good thing to note would also be that sometimes these longer term loans require a minimum amount of >30k. There are some credit unions (like the one I'm in) which only have residency in a particular county as a requirement, so it's not hard to be a member..
I found that my payment (I ended up putting down about.. 6-7k?) ended up being lower than any # mentioned so far in this thread...
A:
Yeah, I can't emphazise enough how important your credit rating is. But another bargaining factor is how much $$$$ your are putting down on a vehicle. Say your trying to purchase a vehicle that's $40K and you are willing to put down 25% as downpayment.......no dealer in their right mind will refuse you.
I just graduated college. One buddy I know was so spoiled by his parents that he never established credit until the age of 23! Anyways, he bartended his way through college and managed to accumulate over 10K. He then went to a dealer and negotiated a Mini Cooper S, eventhough the dealer ran the credit check and they knew he had no credit. (what the dealer is actually waiting for is my friend to default on his monthly payments so they can 1)take his mini cooper away and 2) take his 10K downpayment) Having a hefty downpayment is a very good bargaining chip.
A:
Originally Posted by iwantanelise
Imoz...I am happy with my current (leased) car right now..Crossfire.
...
The thing is...I can probably buy-out my Crossfire at the end of the lease for an excellent price simply because NEW Crossfires are for sale for anywhere from $10,000-15,000 off MSRP.
I think you will find the end-of-lease purchase price was set at the time you signed the lease and is non-negotiable, you either take it or leave it.
A:
Originally Posted by nugg_dawg
Yeah, I can't emphazise enough how important your credit rating is. But another bargaining factor is how much $$$$ your are putting down on a vehicle. Say your trying to purchase a vehicle that's $40K and you are willing to put down 25% as downpayment.......no dealer in their right mind will refuse you.
I just graduated college. One buddy I know was so spoiled by his parents that he never established credit until the age of 23! Anyways, he bartended his way through college and managed to accumulate over 10K. He then went to a dealer and negotiated a Mini Cooper S, eventhough the dealer ran the credit check and they knew he had no credit. (what the dealer is actually waiting for is my friend to default on his monthly payments so they can 1)take his mini cooper away and 2) take his 10K downpayment) Having a hefty downpayment is a very good bargaining chip.
I don't think its so much that having a hefty downpayment is a bargaining chip, but moreso it is reducing the bank's risk exposure to depreciation etc. The dealer doesn't care if he defaults on his monthly payments, because they sold the car to the bank and got paid already, and deposited your friend's $10k. The bank doesn't want him to default, because they want to make all of their profit on the loan.
A:
Originally Posted by iwantanelise
Imoz...I am happy with my current (leased) car right now..Crossfire.
Nugg_Dawg...Your technique looks very attractive to me!
Basically, the Crossfire is due in July '06. I'm just looking around at prices. The thing is...I can probably buy-out my Crossfire at the end of the lease for an excellent price simply because NEW Crossfires are for sale for anywhere from $10,000-15,000 off MSRP. Then, I might try to resell to gain some money back, if any. From there we can look at the Lotus.
Oooo...I forgot to mention how I think in a couple of years used Elises will be available at anywhere from $28,000 to $35,000 simply by looking at the residuals. So, just waiting for a nice used one would be fine as well. There's no rush in getting one anyway!
Is the residual on the Crossfire low enough that you could buy it out and then flip it for a profit? Would that profit be sufficient to take a nice chunk out of the amount you'd have to finance on the Elise? I'm just curious because if new ones are selling for $10-15k off MSRP, then I would imagine that is depressing the market for used examples as well, what is your exposure to another depreciation hit if you buy it out? Like Terminus said, your residual should be noted in your lease contract. What you would want is the opposite, for values of the Crossfire to have _upward_ pressure, so that the market value of the car exceeds the agreed upon residual value. The first thing I would do is pull out the lease contract and find out what the agreed upon residual is.
Also remember, while the values of the used Elises are lower than a brand new one, it may be easier to finance a brand new one at a better rate.
A:
Originally Posted by imoz
Also remember, while the values of the used Elises are lower than a brand new one, it may be easier to finance a brand new one at a better rate.
I agree 100%. I was actually looking at used elises at first, then I caught wind that intrest rates were going to be over 8%. Then I looked a intrest rates on new and it was low 6%. It was a no brainer for me at this point what route I should take.
Good luck!
A:
Originally Posted by bmw1
I won't get into how I believe that leasing is a much better avenue than financing or paying cash on highline cars, I'll leave that for another thread
I'm keeping an eye out for that other thread... mostly because I've almost arrived at the same conclusion.
A:
How do you justify leasing vs. owning. First of all when you lease there is a set limit on the mileage per year. Security deposit that is not guranteed. You still have to put money down. And eventhough you have the option to buy at the end of the lease, you will get reamed. It's like renting a car.
A:
Originally Posted by nugg_dawg
How do you justify leasing vs. owning. First of all when you lease there is a set limit on the mileage per year. Security deposit that is not guranteed. You still have to put money down. And eventhough you have the option to buy at the end of the lease, you will get reamed. It's like renting a car.
For highline cars, it can make perfect sense.