A&Q about Lotus
Q:
I have talked to several et'rs and was wondering about a major thought.
If you could race your Elise or Exige. Other than autocross. How would you?
Basically is there any interest in a spec class like miata?
Please our two cents worth is wanted.
Thanks
Steve
A:
Maybe Time Attack stuff.
The one issue I have with "real" racing is the fact that in most racing series, there is body contact. It is just a fact of life in SCCA series. Anyone else watching the Runoffs on Speed today? Not many cars get to the end of 20 laps without contact. But you bang it out, re-paint it, and race another day. I worry that the Elise/Exige may not be the best choice for something like that.
A:
One reason why I don't go to SCCA. That and requirement to have a 6-point roll-cage.
A:
hpde are the best thing or time trials, miata fenders are 150 buck lotus clams are 5k installed and painted, plus if you do damage to the frame( tub) or suspesnion pickup points on these cars the tub might be shot, someone should look into repairing these things, must be an aluminum guru who has the knowledge.
A:
There are lots of Elise racing series in Europe and Australia. How do they deal with the contact issue? It would be fun to race these things, maybe in a series that penalizes the drivers for making contact (i.e., mandatory race bans after an incident).
A:
I agree matt and NASA would do it if enough people wanted to, I looked into this closely for a while I think when the cars get into the low 30-high 20k ( used 05 high mileage cars) range in a year or so it might be more likely. The other thing is cheap clams, c rash sturcture and someone who can repair the tub, how would you feel if a little mishap put u into some tires and your tub was shot.
A:
I traded my elise to go spec miata racing the lotus is not cheap for parts, and is fragile, and the body work is for 'rich guys" for hard track use.
my miata goes to the track with a hammer, and krylon paint for body work.
spec classes are designed to make racing even, and remove the wallet from the equation and make it driver vs. driver.
the elise by nature being expensive to maintain, and purchase makes it a bad candidate for any spec class.
in the time trial here with one club, they say 190 hp is the cut off for the class, which the lotus falls into, but then puuled some crap saying'the lotus must compete in the next group", which is running against car up to 290 hp (i think). they basically penalize someone for buying a great car for the classifiaction, and make them run in a group where they dont have much chance. sort of like the scca moving the car into the next class this past year.
I love my miata and the spec series in SCCA, its far and away the safest club to run with (IMO), and there is a reason they wont let cars race w/o 6 point cages........................
fishguy
A:
They are classed with NASA for Time Trials in TTB. With a * that means there is less wiggle room for minor changes before they move you to TTA. TTB includes BMW Z8, Corvette C5, Corvette ZR-1, Crossfire, Ferrari 348, SLK AMG, Evo IX, 968 Turbo, numerous 996's, 997 Carrera and Cayman S.
Classes above are TTR (Viper comp coupe, 430, etc), TTU: Super 7, Z06, Fort GT, and TTA: C6 05+, 996 Turbo etc.
Time trialing is your best bet.
A:
Originally Posted by mattwhite
There are lots of Elise racing series in Europe and Australia. How do they deal with the contact issue? It would be fun to race these things, maybe in a series that penalizes the drivers for making contact (i.e., mandatory race bans after an incident).
Something along the lines of the PCA 13/13 rule? PCA has issues with that as well, (i.e. people brake checking other drivers, squeezng them, etc.).
I'd do time trials but am a little leary of NASA (reputation mostly, which might be inaccurate since I'm a former SCCA member). I also despise PAX'ing and would prefer to see a spec series.
But... it's not like I have the time or money to travel all over the country for it.
Perhaps regional Lotus Club TTs are in order?
A:
Originally Posted by codymac
Something along the lines of the PCA 13/13 rule? PCA has issues with that as well, (i.e. people brake checking other drivers, squeezng them, etc.).
I'd do time trials but am a little leary of NASA (reputation mostly, which might be inaccurate since I'm a former SCCA member). I also despise PAX'ing and would prefer to see a spec series.
But... it's not like I have the time or money to travel all over the country for it.
Perhaps regional Lotus Club TTs are in order?
That's funny about the "being leary of NASA" as everyone at NASA says the same thing about SCCA. Let me tell you, there is a huge difference in required experience before you can get a racing license with NASA vs with SCCA. If you try to transfer in with the SCCA license with little experience you get ridden like a hobby horse. Most people in HPDE 3 have more experience than rookie SCCA racers. The rep SCCA has is lots of contact due to inexperience primarily. They have a 13/13 rule in NASA as well. And in TT there is no aggressive driving such as divebombing etc allowed at all. There is intense peer control in all aspects of NASA as well as a lot of supervision from the people in charge. I have never seen or heard of anything negative or scary about NASA.
From the few people I have talked to who have been in both, most lean toward NASA as safer, less contact, more family oriented. Go to an event and check it out.
An important point is that once it is a "timed event" forget about your insurance covering you for "driver training".
A:
Yeah hpdes rule. I'm jealous of the cali guys who can run the track at under $100 at times.
A:
What is the interest in a class in either scca or nasa?
built or stock... sound off.
thanks
Steve
A:
I think this will be a "hard sell". NASA is good about helping start a series, more open minded than SCCA (who rejected FFR for example). But the expense of upgrading the cars to racing status (roll cage, fire suppression etc), their loss of value due to the upgrade, and the expense of contact will doom this from the start. Who wants to go wheel to wheel in a fragile (bodied) car that is expensive to repair? The Exige at least is fiberglass but it didn't take much damage to mine to ruin the front clam. The headlight unit is $1100 (for one). The radiator is vulnerable up front (mine had the clam support bolts pierce it with minor front end damage, causing a slow leak which could have ruined the engine if I hadn't caught it quickly). Experienced racers would percieve all these issues and not be attracted to a series, leaving less experienced people banging into each other side by side through turns. Not me. I just bought a Spec E30 for this purpose (for $7K), 3 million donor vehicles available worldwide: cheap fenders, cheap rotors, bulletproof $250 engines, Spec Miata size tires (cheap), yada yada yada. Makes SM look expensive. Some of those guys are up to $30K in their cars due to competition "creep" ($10K special built motors that are still legal but pull stronger through the whole rpm range etc). Figure $15K to campaign a Spec E30 for one year. $25K+ for my FFR Cobra (scrimping). Figure 3 to 4 times the E30 for a Lotus. Start with brand new tires each weekend, $300 racing fee, travel and lodging, it adds up very quickly even without a bad wreck (write off the entire car for that). I doubt there are 4 or 5 cars in each section of the country that would do this (Texas/OK, Florida, Southeast, MidAtlantic, NE etc).
Sure would be fun though.
Time Trialing has no up front expense. Upgrades are discouraged. Contact is unlikely. You can still be a "National Champion". This is available right now in NASA for the Elise (TTC) and the Exige (TTB). If you have lots of solo experience you can apply for a TT license fairly easily. They put the TT group in the front of the pack of instructors, so they tend to get several opportunities for clean laps during the weekend. Your best lap is what counts. This is just getting started so there isn't as much competition, and the cars are fairly classed. Just contact NASA at nasaproracing.com. This is big out in California, way ahead of the rest of the country according to Greg, the national NASA rep for TT.
A:
well the corvette is an all glass car ... not exactly cheap to fix if you look at an 06/07. Is it really that far off. Or is this car best suited to be built to run gt series?
A:
a friend of mine named Ken Gramer has created a series called 997 cup where he wants Lotus cars to run against Porsche 997's and possibly other track cars such as the Yes Roadster. Ken has spots open for the 2007 season. they will potentially start at Sebring 2007 in March.
Ken's email is ken@usenduro.com
check out the series web page at www.usenduro.com
spots are filling up in the series.
Brian
A:
An Elise Cup/Spec series would be great. I would be interested.
Yes, it costs money. Yes, contact can and eventually will occur.
Everything on the Elise is replaceable.
Safety mods would be easy. Everyone who races knows that race cars are dispensable. The Elise would be RELATIVELY cheap to race.
Who's up for it?
A:
please contact Ken at ken@usenduro.com
he can give you spec series info. it will be a pro series so there is a purse for each race and championship points.
I think the elise or exige would spank a Porsche 997.
Kens phone 434-797-1866
they are acceptig entries for 2007 now.
A:
Originally Posted by Steve592
well the corvette is an all glass car ... not exactly cheap to fix if you look at an 06/07. Is it really that far off. Or is this car best suited to be built to run gt series?
Yeah, and how many Corvettes are in the US? And how many rabid Corvette fans are there? For how many decades? And yet the Corvette/Viper challenge series is sparsely populated while Spec Miata fields 40 and 50 cars at many events. I can count the number of Elise/Exiges that I see at any track event on one hand. Usually 1 or 2 fingers.
Love to see it happen. The guys with race ready cars would be the most interested.
Reminds me of how many restaurants end in bankruptcy.
A:
eye candy has it right, the tt thing is growing in florida too, Bill Stacey is running it down here in south florida, I have a few friends doing it, I will next year I was waiting for my warrantee to expire. But simple put these cars are fragile and they track well but a mistake or a rub could cost you thousands.
The olny way it would work and I said this several time on this board is if you look at this like open wheel, you can not touch it is bad, which all comes down to the maturity of the drivers. Go to an scca even and watch the red mist take over the spec miata or ITS- my buddy mel just won ITS down here in an integra my other buddy's body shop sponsors the car why? panels, wheel marks, bumpers, doors get hit, etc. They tape it to pass tech, then fixed it at the end of the season. or when something is falling off. I like the FFR thing , and the e30 is also great, 944 spec, is good, honda challenge, american iron, I have a 87 911 coupe I would like to run in Germain Touring Car but it is also expensive. The FFR light blue cobra that keeps winning at NASA must have a 100k year budget. I figure to race the lotus would be 7k in cage/seats/electrical/nets/harness/transponder/spares to start plus your car loooses it street value drops to like 25-30 for a race car. Than after you trash it it drops further. plus 20k min yearly in racing to be competitive. plus a trailer.
A:
Now if Lotus would step up to the plate with a contingency plan to pay for on track repairs, that would get my interest. Even just supply the parts. Think of the free advertising it would generate. Mazda gives 25% off for parts, which are already cheap, to racers.
Don't hold your breath.