A&Q about Lotus
Q:
This may have already been answered, but say you take you lotus to a track day and have a little mishap. Does insurance cover track days? Is there anything special you have to do to get coverage for it? Just curious.
A:
I was told yes for DE events and no for races or time trials, but I would question my source. I was told to make sure when you report it to report it as a "drivers education" event.
A:
Regular ins. woulnt cover track use. But there are companys that offer track ins.. I'm not sure of any off the top of my head but I know they exist.
A:
Regular insurance will cover track use. If it is a driving school and not a racing school, and you can't have a lap timer in your car.
A:
some companies are different. check with yours or ask. some now say if it was on a track its not covered no matter if it was education or competition.
A:
Originally Posted by ZJChaser
some companies are different. check with yours or ask. some now say if it was on a track its not covered no matter if it was education or competition.
Be careful about even asking. After USAA told me they wouldn't cover any damage on a track regardless of the type of event (and I was fine with that), they DROPPED ME as a policy holder! Mind you, I was a 24-year customer without a single ticket, claim, or accident. Just for asking about it, I got dropped!
Mike
A:
ALL companies are different, and a lot of them have been changing their policies lately. Be sure to find out the current info on your specific company. /it used ot be that most would cover non-compettitive unitmed events. Recently a lot of the companies have begun to add verbage saying they don't cover anything on any kind of race track no matter the nature of the event.
A:
I just read my Geico policy cover to cover, and the only potentially relevant exclusion is in the Personal Injury Protection amendment for Washington:
EXCLUSIONS:
...
2. There is no coverage to or for any person injured while participating in any prearranged or organized racing or speed contest or in practice or preparation for such a contest.
None of the other policy declarations or amendments make any mention of racing, closed-course driving, off-road driving, or anything like that. So apparently Geico covers comprehensive/collision property damage at the track!
A:
Originally Posted by HexAngel
I just read my Geico policy cover to cover, and the only potentially relevant exclusion is in the Personal Injury Protection amendment for Washington:
You'll be lucky if the newt covers you on the street.
A:
my experience is that they will happily take your premiums, but when you make a claim, you will be left out to dry. think about it man!!! do you think its a good risk for a company to take to cover anyone on the track?!!! I could not get coverage in AZ, and when i mentioned about the track, they canceled my policy. dead and done.
whatever anyone tells you, assume you are NOT covered on the track. the only way i see real coverage is from a specific policy that says its for on track use only, and then they will charge you according to the risk.
its why i sold my lotus and now race a miata. the miata is cheap and disposable, its tough, not fragile like the lotus, and i have a hammer and can of krylon paint to do body work with at the track if need be.
I went through the dirt backwards at ~70 mph last race weekend, no damage at all. if it were the lotus it would have been thousands i am sure.
rule #1 when dealing with insurance agents, they are full of it, they are not the ones who handle claims so they can say they didnt know. they will gladly take your cash, and you wont have any coverage when you thought/were told you did.
track = voided coverage from USAA, but they would take my premium, just not pay out.
NICE!!!
i just didnt trust the others in the DE days anymore after seeing dumb things, i know i could drive hard and not wad my car, but there are many dummies in DE. the race group has proven to be safer in my experience.
fishguy
A:
Originally Posted by fishguyAZ
whatever anyone tells you, assume you are NOT covered on the track. the only way i see real coverage is from a specific policy that says its for on track use only, and then they will charge you according to the risk.
Whatever anyone tells us, and whatever we assume, they are legally obligated to cover claims that are not excluded in the contract or by law. If you want to know the facts, read the contract and the relevant insurance law.
I've read my contract and it's pretty clear that Geico does not have any escape from covering collision damage at the track. Of course, whether they'll pay up promptly and cheerfully is another question, and judging by the comments posted here and elsewhere Geico is probably not very good about that in general (street or track).
What kinds of crazy things do you see at DE track days? So far I've felt pretty comfortable about other drivers; I've never seen anyone do something dumb that could put them in a position to take out others. Given that there is no passing in or near turns, what could happen aside from total brake failure at the end of a straight that could really endanger others?
A:
Originally Posted by HexAngel
Whatever anyone tells us, and whatever we assume, they are legally obligated to cover claims that are not excluded in the contract or by law. If you want to know the facts, read the contract and the relevant insurance law.
I've read my contract and it's pretty clear that Geico does not have any escape from covering collision damage at the track. Of course, whether they'll pay up promptly and cheerfully is another question, and judging by the comments posted here and elsewhere Geico is probably not very good about that in general (street or track).
What kinds of crazy things do you see at DE track days? So far I've felt pretty comfortable about other drivers; I've never seen anyone do something dumb that could put them in a position to take out others. Given that there is no passing in or near turns, what could happen aside from total brake failure at the end of a straight that could really endanger others?
Have you seen the vid of the idiot in the EVO at Pocono? He took out an NSX and another car sitting on the pit exit.
A:
De level 1-2 are very safe, it when you get into the higher groups. there are allot from what i experienced that should not be out of group 1 who are running in the group 4.
guys who dont know what that reflecting thing is hanging from the front windscreen, or on the doors.
guys who feel they dont need to follow the rules, as they are above them, and dont really even need to go to meetings for drivers(this is the fault of the club)
I just kept seeing dumb things that showed poor judgement, and worst of all, guys running tires that were 5 yrs. old!!!, well one at least, he was so dangerous. i dont see that in the race groups. also in the race groups its the same guys all the time. there tends to be an attitude to look out for eachothers safety.
my feeling was find coverage, or (for me) find a disposable car that wouldnt hurt to loose so much when some shmuck took me out.
everytime out i had something happen that was someone elses poor judgement.
use the mirrors, and if your not racing , be wise and let the faster cars go around you on the straights, rather than them being impatient and doing things where they loose common sense.
Be safe!!! use the point bys allot!(thats your best advice on a good insurance policy)
Fishguy
A:
Originally Posted by alexmx77
This may have already been answered, but say you take you lotus to a track day and have a little mishap. Does insurance cover track days? Is there anything special you have to do to get coverage for it? Just curious.
Varies by company. Post the relevant verbiage and I'll give you my opinion.
A:
They're all crooks. Get the minimal coverage you must have legally, don't even ask about track coverage, and carry a lucky rabbit's foot. I know alot of people in the industry and they all laughed when I asked them about track-day coverage. Even if you find a company that says they will cover you on the track for HPDE events, they won't. You (we) are on our own.
A:
A few observations:
1. The safety of DEs vary wildly based upon the organizers. A well run, well monitored DE (like those run by Driver's Edge in Texas) are relatively safe, while more hands-off events can be quite dangerous (see for example - the guy in the Corvette who blew by about 5 cars without a passing signal, who I had to avoid by not turning in, and who then flew off the track is the head NASA instructor for the Texas region!).
2. Policy language is often dictated by state law. In Texas, insurance companies have little power to change what language goes into the policies they issue. What an insurance agent tells you over the phone may or may not have any connection to reality.
3. Just because non-timed DEs might be covered, doesn't mean the insurance company will admit to coverage if an incident happens. Many insurance companies will deny your claim and wait and see what you do. While I wouldn't go as far as saying that you should assume you don't have coverage if you run DEs, I would say that you should be prepared for your insurance company to deny your claim and to hire a lawyer to put pressure on them.
A:
thanks for the help, I'll get my policy and try to post the relevent info on here
A:
I asked my insurance agent yesterday about coverage for track events. She said that State Farm had just clarified wording on their policies to exclude ANY coverage for track events, timed or not. I was strongly warned that if I crunch up the car while at a HPDE I would be the proud owner of a lovely pile of debris.
Are there any companies that sell specific coverage for track days? The armco will look much more fierce next time out otherwise.
A:
Originally Posted by tandemracer
I asked my insurance agent yesterday about coverage for track events. She said that State Farm had just clarified wording on their policies to exclude ANY coverage for track events, timed or not. I was strongly warned that if I crunch up the car while at a HPDE I would be the proud owner of a lovely pile of debris.
Are there any companies that sell specific coverage for track days? The armco will look much more fierce next time out otherwise.
this was a big reason in my decison to sell the lotus. i only used it for track events, and the fact that I could not get coverage(in AZ) for track usage, hpde, i just felt like the potential risk in the car was not worth the reward(fun). I always felt like my checkbook was on the dashboard when i saw walls or tires barriers.
the miata is great because if I wad it, i just buy another, same year and have a slew of parts for it.
I always say that in the miata I am racing my future parts car.
I can eat $10K in an accident(as long as I am ok), but I cannot eat $40K, thats just to rich for this working stiff. I also really like running the race group much more than HPDE, the competition is just too much fun, and the mental game of racing is very intense
Fishguy
A:
Originally Posted by HexAngel
What kinds of crazy things do you see at DE track days?
At Lime Rock I was in the novice group and twice during the course of the day someone wiped out and stopped dead, horizontal across the track. It made for some tight maneuvering when a cluster of us all rounded the curve and encountered the disabled car. Luckily no crashes as a result.
IMHO, the insurance issue isn't whether you'll get your money back for a $50,000 car - it's the possibility of being at fault in an accident where some rich dude with a wife and kids ends up a paraplegic - and you get sued to cover his lost future income. No way your insurance co will step up to the plate for that!