A&Q about Lotus
Q:
We were discussing Lotus briefly today and their financial situation.
Anyone have any predictions as to their financial future, and ownership future of Lotus as a company and Lotus in the U.S.?
It's my understanding that their losing money significantly in the U.S. right now.
We're seeing a hit at some of the dealerships as their service and sales departments are also scaling back.
What are your thoughts?
A:
They are owned by Proton, a large Malaysian company.
They are brilliant car designers.
They have had a hand in building (most lately) frames for Aston Martin and Jaguar.
They are a great company.
They built MY car.
I love them for that.
More financial questions? Why ask us? We don't even know when the '07's will finally be here.
How about this? Go to the Wall Street Journal website and fire away.
A:
qballs question is hardly one that is non-relevant here. Sure many of us dont know much beyond that point. However, that hardly requires the comment to take it to the wsj. Some may not care about the company beyond the point of building their car. However, the wellfare of the company does matter. I for one want them around to build Elise II and Elan III. Hell why go that far, I want them around for the circuit car.
A:
Originally Posted by qball
It's my understanding that their losing money significantly in the U.S. right now.
I've heard this stated on ET a couple times now, but where is that coming from? AFAIK those numbers are not public. Unless LCU has let their cost just get out of control, I would be surprised if they were losing money. Their first year was pretty much according to plan, selling well over 2000 cars (once the dealer gets them, they are sold from LCU's perspective). 2006 doesn't look like it was quite as good for them, but they have moved up-market with higher margin products in both optional packages and the Exige and now the Exige S.
If they could survive selling 100 Esprits per year, they should be able to make a profit selling 1500-2000 Elise/Exiges per year.
Hell, with your recent publicity, they won't have to spend any money on advertising for at least a year. You, with the help of ET, have probably introduced more people to Lotus than all their advertising has so far.
A:
Originally Posted by ChrisB
Hell, with your recent publicity, they won't have to spend any money on advertising for at least a year. You, with the help of ET, have probably introduced more people to Lotus than all their advertising has so far.
Excellent point. I am surprised at how little "car guys" even know about the car, specially in regards to availability. A lot of new people were introduced recently.
Back to the original topic. I have not heard much of anything. I think the lines were supposed to have cut back on Federal Elise cars and I know we saw a lot of Europas and Exige S cars being built when we visited in September.
There have been a lot of changes at LCU.
I believe based on discussions, that Lotus has a good grasp of direction.
I do not expect any major difficulties. I would not be surprised to see Proton sell them off. I would not be surprised to see them keep Lotus.
A:
Originally Posted by qball
Anyone have any predictions as to their financial future, and ownership future of Lotus as a company and Lotus in the U.S.?
It's my understanding that their losing money significantly in the U.S. right now.
We're seeing a hit at some of the dealerships as their service and sales departments are also scaling back.
What are your thoughts?
The Buzzbomb was over-priced from the very beginning. More careful thought would have them selling everyone they ever built.
Now many dealerships are bowing out.........the Death Knell for a car company.
Have always loved Lotus since my very first Lotus-Cortina up to my present Esprit. Sure I off-loaded my Buzzy.....but I certainly had some good times with her.
Still believe that these Hooples are making an OK profit. Not much to the Buzzbomb really. Future models are going to much more difficult however.
Hope the marque does survive a tad longer than my prediction!
A:
Personally I think Lotus is viable for the future, but Not by the current owner's. Rumor's are Volkswagon the current owner of Lambo. If that would occur a new super car would be born as they have money to dump on a good product, improve quality etc.
A:
Originally Posted by dakotan50sw
Personally I think Lotus is viable for the future, but not by the current owner's. Rumor's are Volkswagon the current owner of Lambo. If that would occur a new super car would be born as they have money to dump on a good product, improve quality etc.
Being in a niche of a niche is hard enough.
Lotus would have been much better served by appealing to a larger segment of the sports car buying public........with an offering at a much more competitive price.
The Buzzbomb is primarily a street car for 90% of it's owners.
As far a new super car in the form of the new Esprit goes......that's going to be a tough one. The Got-To-Have-The-Latest-Now's and Looky@Me types will certainly be very interested. At first.
Others are going to have to decide if spending Ferrari level cash on a brand new Lotus is for them.
Best hope is that Proton does sell Lotus to someone that understands how to market this type of vehicle.
A:
Originally Posted by dakotan50sw
Personally I think Lotus is viable for the future, but Not by the current owner's. Rumor's are Volkswagon the current owner of Lambo. If that would occur a new super car would be born as they have money to dump on a good product, improve quality etc.
VW has been brought up several times but, as of right now, Proton doesn't seem to want to relinquish ownership of Lotus even though Proton is hurting financially but, isn't VW also?
A:
Maybe if someone stopped calling them a "buzzbomb" things would pick up?
Someone who works at the factory posted in a thread here on ET a few weeks ago and was asked how the production lines were running. He said they were running a normal full schedule filling demand form the rest of the world and that everything was going fine.
A:
Lotus would have been much better served by appealing to a larger segment of the sports car buying public........with an offering at a much more competitive price.
Dude, go buy a Z06, you are the prefect customer for it, and also a prime example of the very reasoning that kept Lotus from bothering with the US market for such a long time.
The original Elise was a perfect country lane and track day scorcher built for the back roads and tracks of the UK. I drove several back then in the UK, and even though it wasn't 'powerful' it was incredible, and an absolute joy on tight country lanes. It wasn't meant to compete with the Corvette, the Mustang or the Cayman, it was built to be what it is - like it or lump it.
The US had to have a bigger faster motor that was also Fed friendly, hence the rev happy 2ZZ that gives you the 'buzz', and maybe the Honda motor would have been a better choice, but I haven't driven another car that I enjoy this much ever. (NB: before my Liz I extensively tracked both a GT3 and an M3smg.)
A:
Originally Posted by JWA
Maybe if someone stopped calling them a "buzzbomb" things would pick up?
"Billy Ray Valentine has set the market Mortimor."
A:
Originally Posted by macfly
Dude, go buy a Z06, you are the prefect customer for it, and also a prime example of the very reasoning that kept Lotus from bothering with the US market for such a long time.
The original Elise was a perfect country lane and track day scorcher built for the back roads and tracks of the UK. I drove several back then in the UK, and even though it wasn't 'powerful' it was incredible, and an absolute joy on tight country lanes.......
The Buzzbomb was my eight Lotus in 25 years. Still have a '98 Esprit. Believe I know what I'm talking about.
This present market is'nt Never Neverland.
That Porsche Snapper is awesome by the way. Love mine!
A:
so, dicked, are you calling jw a street urchin who is clueless? or are you saying those with no business knowledge (jw or the hethel factory worker) are not the people who can best foretell the fortunes of lotus? or are you BRV in this metaphor?
and for the record, i miss the hoopleheads and Swea-gin
A:
Lotus has always been one step away from oblivion. A financially stable Lotus would be a lazy Lotus -- they need to be on death's door to keep their edge.
The Elise is a very high margin car. They make a bundle on every sale. The problem is Lotus expanded production capacity a bit too much (according to the former CEO).
Originally Posted by dickedup
Lotus would have been much better served by appealing to a larger segment of the sports car buying public.... That Porsche Snapper is awesome by the way. Love mine!
There are enough lazy man "sporty" cars out there with seat warmers, cupholders, and painted crests. I prefer what Lotus intended: the purest sports car available without worrying about the housewife who needs to get from point A to point B. (A quote from the Making of Elise video )
(An Atom would be in my garage if it could be easily registered where I live)
A:
Originally Posted by dickedup
The Buzzbomb was my eight Lotus in 25 years. Still have a '98 Esprit. Believe I know what I'm talking about.
This present market is'nt Never Neverland.
That Porsche Snapper is awesome by the way. Love mine!
I have no idea what you have been saying on this thread and I have been speaking english for more than 25 years.
regards,
peter pan
A:
Lotus is loosing money in the US ? UK , it's financial results/statments are reported back to proton, and who has access to that?
Specualtion and bable, they have alot of stuff in the pipline, Telsa, engineering for other manufactures, etc. Now proton is rumored to be doing poorly so that might be causing sell rumors.
A:
Malaysia Is Talking to Volkswagen, Peugeot on Proton (Update2)
By Stephanie Phang
Nov. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Malaysia's government said it's in talks with carmakers including Volkswagen AG and PSA Peugeot Citroen about teaming up with Proton Holdings Bhd., pledging to ensure the Malaysian automaker's survival. Proton shares rose.
The government is willing to part with a ``significant'' stake in Proton to attract an overseas partner for the unprofitable state-controlled carmaker if necessary, Malaysia's Second Finance Minister Nor Mohamed Yakcop told reporters today in Kuala Lumpur.
``We have a very open mind,'' Nor said. ``We will do whatever it takes to make Proton viable and if, in the nature of things and in the context of the circumstances prevailing now, it's necessary to bring in a foreign partner, we'll bring a foreign partner.''
The comments propelled Proton shares for a third day. The carmaker has been losing market share to overseas rivals including Toyota Motor Corp. and needs new technology and designs to compete. Volkswagen had ended talks with Proton in January because the two sides couldn't agree on issues including control of the company.
``A speedy decision on Proton's long-term direction is sorely needed,'' said Johan Tazrin Ngo, who manages $136 million in investments at Kenanga Investment Management Sdn. in Kuala Lumpur. ``Comments by the government appear to hintcom of a practical and most viable solution, which in our opinion weighs favorably for foreign participation.''
Proton stock today rose as much as 20 sen, or 3.6 percent, to 5.70 ringgit and traded at 5.60 ringgit at 3:11 p.m. in Kuala Lumpur. The shares, which have dropped 14 percent this year, are poised for a third straight day of gains.
Local or Foreign
The government will complete plans for Proton in the next three months, Nor said. There is no preference for a local or foreign partner for the carmaker, he said.
``It depends on who can serve the needs of Proton and the needs of the nation's auto industry best,'' Nor said. ``If it is well that foreign carmakers can serve best, we will work together with foreign car owners and if we need to give them significant equity, we'll give them significant equity.''
Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi said yesterday the government is considering, although it has yet to approve, selling the manufacturing arm of Proton, the country's biggest carmaker. His comment followed an EdgeDaily report Malaysia may have agreed to allow foreigners to own 51 percent of Proton's manufacturing operations with Germany's Volkswagen as a potential partner.
Strategic Partner
``For a foreign strategic partner to come in, it is likely to be at the manufacturing level,'' Johan said. ``To that end, a controlling stake and absolute management control is likely to be negotiated. Should this materialize, it would be positive for Proton in terms of technology transfer on production processes to enhance cost and production efficiency.''
Proton has been seeking a strategic partner since it ended an alliance with technology partner Mitsubishi Motors Corp. in 2004. Mitsubishi Motors sold its 7.9 percent stake in Proton in March 2004 and Mitsubishi Corp. sold its 7.9 percent stake in January 2005, ending a 22-year investment.
Proton said in September it may form an alliance with PSA Peugeot Citroen to build and assemble cars.
Khazanah Nasional Bhd., the government's investment arm, owns 43 percent of Proton.
To contact the reporter on this story: Stephanie Phang in Kuala Lumpur at at sphang@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: November 10, 2006 03:54 EST
A:
Thank you for the Bloomberg post Mitch T. I think that it clears up a lot of the speculation and brings us up to date. My only concern regarding Peugeot is that they left the US market and have no intention of coming back. I am afraid that they might do he same with Lotus at the first sign of weakness in the US.
A:
Originally Posted by dakotan50sw
Personally I think Lotus is viable for the future, but Not by the current owner's. Rumor's are Volkswagon the current owner of Lambo. If that would occur a new super car would be born as they have money to dump on a good product, improve quality etc.
I heard that now Proton is in talks for a partnership with Peugeot/Citroen not Vw