A&Q about Lotus
Q:
I'm new to Elise Talk, but have been wanting an Elise since the Series 1. I'm in the market for a "new" car but came up with an idea. I need a daily driver, and want a track car. Initially I was thinking about a 2001 Twin Turbo Porsche, which is a compromise. While there are a few people who drive them daily it can't be too comfortable. Also people track them all the time, but the tire bills, maintenance, and possible damage repair would keep me from much track time.
Has anyone bought an Elise for weekends and track days, and something like a BMW M5 for their daily driver? That's what I'm leaning towards, what do you guys think?
Thanks,
Nick
A:
Hi Nick,
It may depend on how fast you want to be on the track, and how sporting of a car you want for the street. The Elise will slower on most tracks than a 996TT, and the M5 won't be as sporty on the street.
But personally I'd still go the Elise / M5 route. The Elise ranks very highly in the fun factor element, whereas the M5 is a perfect daily driver and is even good for the family. I'm not sure what you have in your garage, but I'm a big believer in horses for courses. The 996TT is a very good daily driver if you don't need rear seats, but having two cars would allow you to really track prep your Elise and still have all the luxury in your M5. I enjoy having both an Elise and a C32 AMG, as it's nice to have just the right car for the situation.
If you can only have one car, it's hard to beat a 996TT. I might even skip it and get a 997 Carrera S instead. Better handling IMO, nicer interior, and doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner. I don't think there would be a problem daily driving either Porsche. They ride fairly well and are comfortable.
- Justin
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Originally Posted by turbonick
Initially I was thinking about a 2001 Twin Turbo Porsche, which is a compromise. While there are a few people who drive them daily it can't be too comfortable.
Whats not comfortable about 911?
I would go for Elise only and put forcedfed on it
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if only one car, 996 TT no questions.
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if one car only, get cayman S if you are itching for new. if used, 997 carrera S
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Originally Posted by Vantage
The Elise will slower on most tracks than a 996TT, and the M5 won't be as sporty on the street.
M5 is faster than a 996TT (Straight line at least, not sure about the twisties) Never underestimate the ///M division.
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Originally Posted by FirstClass
M5 is faster than a 996TT (Straight line at least, not sure about the twisties) Never underestimate the ///M division.
I assumed we were talking about an E39 M5, because the price of an E60 + Elise would be significantly higher than the price of a 2001 996TT.
Even so, a 996TT is probably more complete as a sports car than a E60 M5, and isn't too much slower until you get to higher speeds. Not sure about fun factor.
I will "never underestimate the ///M division" in the future, sir!
- Justin
A:
Originally Posted by Vantage
I assumed we were talking about an E39 M5, because the price of an E60 + Elise would be significantly higher than the price of a 2001 996TT.
Even so, a 996TT is probably more complete as a sports car than a E60 M5, and isn't too much slower until you get to higher speeds. Not sure about fun factor.
Heh, didn't consider it may be a E39.
I'd get an Elise and an M5 over the single 996TT though. Two fast cars or one slightly faster (arguable) car. Theres also the heavily modded Elise (ForcedFed and Sector 111 whorage) and daily beater option. New 335i should be similar in cost to an E39 M5. Hahaha, 335i as a daily beater.
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Thanks for the opinions guys. It's not that I can only have 1 car. I have a budget and need a car, but want to get back to the track. My budget is around $60,000-$70,000 so I'm thinking TT Porsche or Elise and M5. As usual I'm trying to have the best of both worlds. Unfortunately I don't have the budget for a F430 for the track/weekends and a Bentley for a daily driver.
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Originally Posted by turbonick
Thanks for the opinions guys. It's not that I can only have 1 car. I have a budget and need a car, but want to get back to the track. My budget is around $60,000-$70,000 so I'm thinking TT Porsche or Elise and M5. As usual I'm trying to have the best of both worlds. Unfortunately I don't have the budget for a F430 for the track/weekends and a Bentley for a daily driver.
$60k-70k? Z06? Interior is crap but for the speed you get I think you could cope.
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There is a pretty clean 2001 M5 down the street from me. I think he is asking about 30k, but it's been for sale for a while. That plus the range that used Elises are getting lately puts you squarely within your budget. That is definitely the route I would go. IMHO, the E39 was the best looking 5 series and the M5 is one hell of a sleeper.
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Originally Posted by turbonick
Thanks for the opinions guys. It's not that I can only have 1 car. I have a budget and need a car, but want to get back to the track. My budget is around $60,000-$70,000 so I'm thinking TT Porsche or Elise and M5. As usual I'm trying to have the best of both worlds. Unfortunately I don't have the budget for a F430 for the track/weekends and a Bentley for a daily driver.
I have both and believe you would have a very nice combination. The E39 M5 is an excellent daily driver with 4 door utility. TT is very nice but the more you set it up for track the less you may want to drive it on the street. Elise is definitely fun on the street and (I think) you can do more track mods yourself and save $. You may want to check out the M5 board for the TT E39M5 comparos from people who own both.
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I think you should be able to get a '04 GT3 for 75k nowadays. I'd pick that over a '01 Turbo. The GT3 is more comfortable than an LSS Elise.
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Originally Posted by turbonick
Thanks for the opinions guys. It's not that I can only have 1 car. I have a budget and need a car, but want to get back to the track. My budget is around $60,000-$70,000 so I'm thinking TT Porsche or Elise and M5. As usual I'm trying to have the best of both worlds. Unfortunately I don't have the budget for a F430 for the track/weekends and a Bentley for a daily driver.
I have had a 2001 TT and now have a 2004 TT cab. I also have an Elise. I am not sure about the 996TT being faster around tracks. That would certainly depend on the track and how the 996TT is set up. The 997TT is an absolute beast on the track and is probably faster around most tracks.
M5s, to me, are dull, but they make a lot of sense because of the back seat. I had a 2001 M5 and it just sat in the driveway and was rarely driven. I, however, have driven 911s as daily drivers for many years so what I am accustomed to is a bit skewed. My daughters are now 10 and 11 and they still never complain about getting in the back seat of my 911s. They grew up this way, but I also keep a SUV and tow vehicle around for family stuff.
I do not think you can reasonably compare either car to an M5. You get the M5 if you need a big car, back seat, and are not comfy driving sports cars around town. If I only had an Elise and an M5, I would never drive the M5. If I could only have one, I would certainly get the 996TT.
For $ 70,000, get an Elise a nicely set up 993 or a higher milege 996C2. I think the 996C2 is more fun to drive than the 996C4. The AWD system makes the 996s a bit large feeling and the C2 is more tossable.
The Elise and other exotics make a 996TT feel like a tractor. I have a Ruf suspension, 550 power package, and other assorted mods and my 996TT cab feels huge with lots of body roll. The steering wheel feels like a hulla hoop, the seat is up high, and the car basically becomes a point and fire type of car with little or no finese. True the acceleration can be intoxicating, but you get over that after have a few years. The Elise never seems to have quit enough power going to stright to me and I am a bit disspointed everytime I get on it hard. The Elise, however, is more fun to drive, more involving and more rewarding. The only car I have had that is as much fun to drive as the Elise is a 360 CS.
Alas, if I could only have one or if I had to chose between an Elise/M5 and a 996TT, it would be the 996TT. An older M5 just do not get me excited and the Elise could be a pain in the arse when it is not sunny and warm. The 996TT is bullet proof, fun enough and big enough.
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Much of this actually depends on your requirements for a daily driver. Both the Elise and the Porsche are going to be a blast on the track so shift the attention to what your requirements are in a daily driver. Biggest factor in that decision would be the back seat. As a daily driver having that 4 door back seat can make a big difference if you go to the store and get more than just a few items. Another thing to consider is the wear and tear. Tracking and daily driving on the same car can really rack up some serious miles and maintenance/repair. If you seperate the two you will got a lot more life out of both.
My choice: Elise and M5, then add ForceFed 275 turbo package when you get tired of being passed on the straights!
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I have owned the Elise for a while, still own a Stage 2 996 TT (550 hp etc etc) and have driven my friends M5. All very different cars.
The Elise is by far the most raw. Great fun...Not a daily driver. Best track car of the 3. (For those of us that are not professional drivers)
The M5 is great. No complaints...except it is pretty big.
My TT is engineered like a typical German car. Never any issues. (unlike my Ferraris) You should be able to find an 01 996 TT for around $62-65k in good shape. Most bang for the buck...However...careful if you track it. You need much more driving talent to handle that beast than an Elise.
Someone suggested an 04 GT3....Brilliant. Best of both worlds. You can get them in the $70k range.
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Originally Posted by TiGumz
I have both and believe you would have a very nice combination. The E39 M5 is an excellent daily driver with 4 door utility. TT is very nice but the more you set it up for track the less you may want to drive it on the street. Elise is definitely fun on the street and (I think) you can do more track mods yourself and save $. You may want to check out the M5 board for the TT E39M5 comparos from people who own both.
What he said. I have both as well. It's the best combo. The Elise is more fun than the 996TT on the track IMHO. Fun being that the Elise is infinately more tossible and manuerable than the 996TT which is 3,000+ lbs, so it's a big fat heavy car in comparison to the Elise. You have to drive both at that the track at speed to appreciate. The E39 ///M5 is tops for the street. All the comfort, luxury, and smoothness you want for daily driving, and faster than 99% of the cars you will ever see on the street. Unless there is a serious muscle car in front of you (Viper, Z06, etc) you can get around them in the ///M5 without worry, and do it with 3 passengers, 4 sets of golf clubs in the trunk, comfy leather heated seats, navigation, Sirius Satellite radio, etc., etc. Hard to beat that combinaion. No one car does it all, so get both.
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I have a 02 996TT I am looking to sell. I am asking for mid 70's and it has some VERY nice mods (Stage 2 like Seabiscuit referred to ^^) making on par if not exceeding the performance of the new 997TT. Car is just about perfect in every way, is one of the most comfortable sports cars I have ever owned and will blow the doors off a M5.
PM me if you wanna talk.
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Test drive them all in one day. Back to back comparison. Only $499
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Since you mentioned you're on a budget, I imagine the 911 turbo is going to be quite a bit more expensive on the track. I've done 5 days on the track with the Elise and still have usable A048s and brake pads (4300 miles). Other than changing brake fluid, I just drive the thing to the track and back with zero extra cost or hassle involved.
I have no idea how pricey the 911 is, but on the same track I drove Elise my STi goes through 1/2 a set of $$$ Brembo brake pads (front and rear) in one weekend. Unlike Subaru, I doubt Porsche covers pads under warranty.