A&Q about Lotus
Q:
Hello, Just for a quick introduction, my name is Lenny and I have been messing around mith Mazda Rx-7s and rotary engines for the past ~6 years. My latest project is a '94 Rx-7 with a chevy LS1 engine and about 460RWHP. Lately I have been thinking of selling this and picking up a new elise or egixe. Before I do so, I have a few questions. I know you guys are biased just like on any enthusiast forum, but please try and be a fair as possible. 1st off, I know the elise is a good bit lighter than my current car at ~2700lbs, but I will be needing more power than stock. How much would it take to make these cars trap ~120+ in the 1/4, and at that point, can these cars still be reliable at that power level? Im not really planning on drag racing the car as I understand thats not what they are meant for ( and not what Im interested in), but trap speeds are a good indiction of a cars overall speed. Secondly, are these reliable cars, or very high maintenance? Coming from dealing with rotaries I can definalely handle some issues, but Imjust worried about prices of things when they break. Last, any common issues to look for when shopping for an elise? Thanks alot, and I look forward to your replies.
A:
if your looking for alot of power than the elise may not be for you. my best advice would be to test drive one, before you make a decision. This is an all-around sports car, could use more power but nothing else handles like an elise or exige. These cars are reliable in terms of engine, it has a toyota engine so it will last a long time. But when you start messing with aftermarket turbos etc etc of course it will have side effects. This car is not a straight line car in terms of drag racing, it was meant for handling and track days.
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+1
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very fun car
parts...............not cheap
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Chrome Orange is faster
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Before we answer your questions, I think we'd need to know why you think want an Elise or Exige?
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all sports cars are red...
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Originally Posted by OneFastLotus
Before we answer your questions, I think we'd need to know why you think want an Elise or Exige?
yeah, yeah.... I guess that's important too.....
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There are no corners in the 1/4 mile. This is where the car shines. Check out the latest Car & Driver - see link below. In the $30-60K category, the Elise beat the Corvette (not Z06) and the Cayman S in their lightning lap around Virginia Int'l Raceway.
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seems like for 9k you can add a "reliable" turbo for 275hp. Reliabe probably depends how you plan to use the extra power though... if to fill out the torque curve at low RPM vs. to continue to keep the pedal to the floor all the time.
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Originally Posted by Rxmfn7
Imjust worried about prices of things when they break.
Aside from any issues with the drivetrain, you should know that the body is somewhat delicate compared with other vehicles. Very minor collisions can result in very large repair bills.
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Sounds like you have a lot of hot rodding experience and with the LS1, you will miss the torque with the Elise even if it has a turbo or a SC. The Lotus is a big change of mindset for you IMO. You won't be able to brag about the hp or torque numbers or the 1/4 time. to tell people the car is light and nimble on the track won't win the hot rodding crowd. The N/A Elise will seem anemic to you but it will have a low ET on the track, I don;t mean drag strip.
the oem 94 RX-7 is a fine sports car with the rotary, but with a v-8, it becomes a fast, front heavy, w/ hi polar moment. the Elise is just the opposite. I don;t doubt your ability to mod the elise but in the end, you will end up a very different car that is only quick and fast on a road course.
If I were you, I would rent an Elise for a wk first. One test drive may not do it.
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Originally Posted by liftnot
Sounds like you have a lot of hot rodding experience and with the LS1, you will miss the torque with the Elise even if it has a turbo or a SC. The Lotus is a big change of mindset for you IMO. You won't be able to brag about the hp or torque numbers or the 1/4 time. to tell people the car is light and nimble on the track won't win the hot rodding crowd. The N/A Elise will seem anemic to you but it will have a low ET on the track, I don;t mean drag strip.
the oem 94 RX-7 is a fine sports car with the rotary, but with a v-8, it becomes a fast, front heavy, w/ hi polar moment. the Elise is just the opposite. I don;t doubt your ability to mod the elise but in the end, you will end up a very different car that is only quick and fast on a road course.
If I were you, I would rent an Elise for a wk first. One test drive may not do it.
Thanks for the replies guys, and just wanted to clear a few things up. You are a bit misinformed in this statement. I actually lost 30lbs from the front end of my car with the v-8 swap. The LS1 is an all-aluminum engine and is very light and compact, which is why I went with it. I am a mostly a track racer, but do like to hit up the 1/4 every once in a while. Im just looking for a change right now, been thinking of Z06s but theyre too common for me, and honestly feel like driving a boat compated to my Rx-7 (although they do handle well, just feel large). I just know I will tire of the lack of power from a stock elise.
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I think what you want is mostly do-able. I say mostly because I dont think it has actually been done yet. There are multiple forced induction cars out there that use different combinations of turbos, intercoolers, and superchargers. There is no clear best answer for forced induction and the computer still hasnt been worked out. The way I see it, the forced induction route has the following issues:
The engine has like 11.5 compression so any forced induction adventure is a bit of a tightrope because there is not much room for error. I think a few people are running upwards of 10 psi from a supercharger. Dont know if those are intercooled or not but I would bet that they are.
The supercharger systems seem to work great (Tripoint engineering) but they have very few miles on them because they were just released in the summer/fall. They are also not intercooled as delivered from Tripoint.
The turbo systems seem to work great as well (ForcedFed) but the prices are pretty high.
Intercooling is a giant pain because the engine bay has very limited airflow. The air flow the engine does get would probably be nice to help cool the engine compartment and not be preheated by the intercooler. Any air/air intercooler setup is probably most effective as a heat sink rather than a continous duty device. There just isnt enough air flow to keep a steady intercooler temp. Water/air intercooler is probably the way to go but then you have to install the radiator and pump system. If you go with an Exige, I am 99% sure you can put a water/air intercooler above the engine and below the deck lid. On the Elise, there is no room above the engine.
The ECU is impossible. '05 and '06 have different computers. There has been mention that the computer is constantly in closed loop mode and always tries to achieve stoich (even at WOT). I think this is the learn function that everybody mentions. If you use a piggyback computer to retune after forced induction, the ECU will retune all your rich spots and make them 14.7. As you keep richening the mixture during boost, the ECU keeps trimming it back. Since no one has yet cracked the factory ECU, I think the best approach is a stand alone engine controller running parellel with the factory ECU. The factory ECU runs the car, airbags, OBD2, and possibly the cams. The stand alone runs the fuel and spark. You use O2 emulators to make the factory ECU think the car is running at stoich so it doesnt flash the CEL. Oh yeah, the intake cam is continuously adjustable for angle. The ECU has feedback control to make sure the cam is in the right place. Therefore, cam control is difficult becuase it isnt just a switch (like VTEC), and the factory ECU will freak out of the feedback doesnt indicate that the cam is in the right spot. Some people have found a way to change the cam switchover point, but I am not sure how that was achieved.
I have not yet heard of broken drivetrain parts as a result of increased HP (with the exception of slipping clutches).
I have no doubt that it is possible to make huge amounts of HP with the Elise/Exige, it will just take some work, experimentation, and time. Unless you buy a boxed system, you will get to be the guinea pig.
I have also heard rumors that the car hit an aerodynamic brick wall at 120 mph. I dont have any real data to support or deny that claim.
A third gen with LS1 is a pretty potent beast. Why not just stick with it?????
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Hey, I read about your car in Sport Compact Car a couple months ago, didn't I? I bet you could shoe-horn a small Mercedes V8 (think AMG) in an Elise.
That would be cool. I suspect you will find the Elise underpowered as is.
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Okay. I had a Honda Civic, and beefed it up with loads of power. They are easy to make quick/fast, and fairly cheaply. But one this is for certain, no matter what I try to do to the suspension, it will never handle as good as the Elise.
With that said, it's alot easier to add power than it is to improve greatly on handling. So really, if the Elise isn't powerful enough for you, I say still get it. The handling is already great to begin with. You can go farther and go with Nitrons or Ohlins, but the handling is great. Now you have the issue with power, which can be done with forced induction.
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Don't know what your budget is, but if you want to really transform an Elise into something like your RX-7, power-to-weight-wise, check out the ForcedFed R340 package. The lower-cost FF Sport 275 also makes a huge difference in the character of the Elise. More information at:
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Did you know that an Elise driven by Mathew Braun of Novi, MI just won the SCCA national championship in the Super Stock category beating alkl the Z06 Corvettes by more than .3 seconds (a huge win in a national autocross). If you can drive, the Elise is one hell of a track car.
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I guess Im just of a different personality that alot of you guys (maybe a bit more immature?). While Im into track racing, for me alot of the fun comes from trying to tame overpowered cars oversteering and fishtailing the whole way, rather than being happy I could outcorner another car by .3 seconds. I am interested in one for its no compromise track attitude, but I am more interested in what I can do with some aftermarket go-fast parts. The sub 2000lbs curb weight means I dont have to make huge power to go fast and have fun.
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One thing to remember is that, aside for major engine mods and some suspension changes (for that 0.3s you mentioned) not much is left to do. You could shed about 100lbs or so thus 'gaining' HP, go forced induction and get a different suspension. However, if you hope for major gains you'd be disappointed.
This reminds me of the time I got my 996 and was looking at it in the garage. So I already had brembo brakes, marchesini wheels, ohlins and a steering dampner. Unlike my friends I wasn't spendig money on these upgrades, I had them as OEM. It was time to go riding.