A&Q about Lotus
Q:
I was wondering about the handling characteristics of these cars once you get them unsettled. Im no stranger to having a car get loose on me at the track or while doing something a bit stupid, but in the past Ive found that other mid-engine cars Ive driven seem to be nearly uncatchable once the rear starts to come out on you. (mostly MR2s..). The NSX seems to be pretty controllable due to the longer wheelbase, but Ive never been able to put an elise or Exige in this position. Is it a car that you can put into a drift and bring it back controllably, or is the rear-weight bias combined with the short wheelbase too hard to control if you do get it out?
A:
Originally Posted by Rxmfn7
Is it a car that you can put into a drift and bring it back controllably, or is the rear-weight bias combined with the short wheelbase too hard to control if you do get it out?
Depends on your skill level. I did 4 laps of Cal Speedway in the passenger seat with Matt Becker at the wheel. For a couple laps, he steered the Exige around the track almost exclusively using the throttle.
A:
Originally Posted by Serebo1
Depends on your skill level. I did 4 laps of Cal Speedway in the passenger seat with Matt Becker at the wheel. For a couple laps, he steered the Exige around the track almost exclusively using the throttle.
What's a Matt Becker?
It's a short wheel base car. It handles like one. Generally very forgiving, but when it snaps it can rotate quite quickly.
A:
In my limited experience really trying to push the car on dry roads (track), I thought it was pretty predictable. Never really tried to provoke problems tho. I was reassured that in most driving I would have to really try to cause myself a problem.
One thing I don't like about mid-engine/rear drive vs. the front-engine/rear drive in previous car (Miata) is in the wet. I'm trying to have a little fun swinging the rear out and it really wants to snap back hard no matter how careful I try to be. It tends to snap back past straight also. I've read enough to know this is how it works, but I do miss the smooth drifting of the Miata. I felt more in control. Guess I just need more practice. Need some snow to really learn quickly.
A:
Having spun off the track once so far, and then having almost spun but caught it twice, and having had enough (although not many) sessions so far to begin learning the car, I can say this:
If you aren't USED to this car, it will seem to snap around. With some practice, it seems to become more predictable. I've really begun to get a feel for that edge, and having the rear end just hang out ever so slightly but feathering the throttle right on that edge and holding it.
I'm not claiming to be good at it yet. Just saying I've put a small handfull of track laps under my belt enough so that I can tell this transition phase exists between-out of control and in-control. And I can tell it's the kind of thing, the feeling, that will improve with more practice.
So yeah, the first few times it happens, it will be over before you even notice it started, and you'll be going backwards. The street is NOT the place to discover this limit. You hear me? I'm serious. But I believe with more and more track time, your senses become attuned to the car's behavior, and you start to realize it DOES communicate it's intentions just prior to the event.
xtn
A:
well stated XTN
I think that part of this SNAP is caused by the (Sorry for this) A048's
they grip so well, feeling like they are totally planted and then they just let go.
kinda like if you were hanging from a cliff 1000feet up you hang on tight until you just can't then thing get crazy and sometimes they regrip and other times they never do. if you ever drive these cars with less agressive tires they slide and come back without issue from my limited experience. MC2 has all seasons on his sport pack and i had it sliding...drifting through a couple of corners with the rear coming back around very smoothly and predictably.
A:
Next time it rains take your Elise to an empty parking lot and push it until it spins. Do this in both directions and experiment with left-right-left-right transitions until you find the limit at which it gives up grip.
A:
or better yet try it in the slush!!!!
A:
Don't have time to search but if you look in the archives here or youtube you can find Top Gears first review of the S2 I think. Jeremy hates it basically , then they bring in an engineer for Lotus who takes him for a spin and shows him how to drive the car and Jerermy is floored, the stig then drives it in the rain and I think came in one of the top 10 track times?
A:
I came to this car from a turbo miata on coilovers.
From what I heard on the forums I was expecting it to snap much more. I found it to be VERY controllable. if it is understeering just lift a little and let the rear get back in line. smooth controllable slides. overall a GREAT handling and well balanced car. It is touchy to throttle due to being mid engine but by no means overly snappy.
A:
In 1st and 2nd gears, and a little in 3rd, drop throttle oversteer can get the tail coming around pretty quick. Other than that, the Elise is pretty forgiving, and easy to drive on the throttle.
A:
Originally Posted by xtn
it will be over before you even notice it started, and you'll be going backwards.
xtn
perfectly stated.
in an HPDE download the instructor asked me what happened.
my reply " I was facing the north going fast, next second facing south and not moving". truth was and i told him, that I was just learning to set the cars' tire PSI up. it was my first time out in the car ever, and was way overinflated.
using a pyrometer fixed that.
A:
Originally Posted by Rxmfn7
Is it a car that you can put into a drift and bring it back controllably, or is the rear-weight bias combined with the short wheelbase too hard to control if you do get it out?
Depends on what you mean by drift....
IMHO, it's not a car that you can hang the tail out at full lock and recover easily while looking like a superhero. It can be caught, but at Tokyo Drift slip angles, I wish you the best of luck.
However, it is a car that you can throw hard into a four-wheel drift and dance the front and rear through the slide quite easily.
Rain? Shagged AO48s? Slick track? Fughedaboutit. You'll be waving at your friends as they wonder why you're facing the wrong way on track.
A:
Originally Posted by codymac
Rain? Shagged AO48s? Slick track? Fughedaboutit. You'll be waving at your friends as they wonder why you're facing the wrong way on track.
Hey, at least we were behind you before you spun, right? I did notice you were using Her Majesty The Queene's wave. Very appropriate.
xtn
A:
That part about most mid engine cars not able to recover once a slide starts,
I strongly disagree. I've gotten the Esprit to go through the turns with the rear hangin off my shoulder as it were and knew when it was going to break all the way. It's a matter of knowing your car and it's limitations.Of course when the brakes go that is something different :-P
It comes down to driver skills. I did not think the 61 was a drifting car, but once I got used to it and we got the suspension sorted out sliding through a turn is not a problem. You have to be aware of it and act accordingly, which comes with practice.
I've seen an experienced driver take an Elise around the track with the rear waggling from one side to the other and still under control.
If you want to know the limits do as the one gent suggested and go find yourself a nice empty lot. Do it in the wet and in the dry. You'll be amazed at how hard you have to push to get it to let go if you have a decent set of tires. Of course by the time you're through those same tires will not be quite as sticky.
A:
I love going into a turn on the track and intentionally sharply turning the wheel to induce rotation and drifting it through the turn. The car gives lots of feedback at the edge, and I have never had either the Elise or Exige "snap" or have any unusual characteristics. I have trail braked badly and spun the car on several occasions, or just lost it fooling around (on turns with good runoff). Snap oversteer is a driver thing, not a Lotus E/E thing.
PM me for a video of how controllable the car is at Road Atlanta.
No one would want to use this car for a drift competition.
A:
A Matt Becker is a chassis engineer (iirc) Employed by Lotus cars UK.
m
A:
Originally Posted by thegit
A Matt Becker is a chassis engineer (iirc) Employed by Lotus cars UK.
Thank you.
A:
It is an astoundingly forgiving and tossable car, but it is very quick to rotate, and you must have fast hands to keep up with it. The fact that it will rotate quickly is not, however, a flaw, it is a great advantage, you simply have to respond quickly enough to manage the car. It is utterly controllable. The PMI is very low and you can hang the ass end out around turns if that's your thing (or if you go in a bit hot).
I think this is the only car I've owned, tracked, and haven't spun, actually, because it communicates with you...as long as you speak the language
A:
Originally Posted by xtn
Hey, at least we were behind you before you spun, right? I did notice you were using Her Majesty The Queene's wave. Very appropriate.
xtn
Well, I did have a Lotus employee on board.
"Do we know what happened?"
"Yeah, I spun."