A&Q about Lotus
Q:
For a little car company, Lotus seems to do a lot of big things right. I think the Exige/Exige S controversy is the main driving force behind anyone feeling alienated. Lotus could have handled that better, just by saying when asked about an "S" option, "Not at this time. If consumer demand warrants it, we will certainly revisit it in the future." Those of us who had to have our cars now would still buy. I bought my Elise early on-full sticker, knowing that a year or two down the road, I could get a slightly better built one (probably) for a lower price (certainly). It didn't matter to me one bit. A friend once told me a thing is worth what you're willing to pay to have it at the moment you want it.
A:
I suppose I can see the point that people that bought the Exige feel a bit ticked that the Exige S is now available - especially after Lotus NA said that the supercharged version would never make it to our shores... But as it's already been said, that's the world of product marketing - in the automotive world, and in just about any consumer product. Would many people have bought the standard Exige, knowing that a better one was coming - probably not. Were existing owners upset when the Boxter S came out - most definitely. But, Lotus needs to sell cars to survive.
Go out and drive your cars... None of them are bad products just because there are better performing products available. I still get a grin on my face every time I go for a drive in my almost two year old, base suspension, non-modded (ok - I've got harnesses..) Elise...
Hummmm - seems like the clock is screwed up - why is my post now before Allan's original?
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Lotus warranty issues pissed me off, but not enough to get change marquees on the car.
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In reading some of the threads, I'm getting a sense that many owners or potential owners are now feeling alienated by Lotus because of:
a) The price point of a fully load Exige S hits $65K;
b) Over supply of Elise/Exiges which resulted in poor resale of the Elise/Exige;
c) The one year run of the n/a Exige,
d) Lotus' denial that an Exige S was ever going to come to the states, or
e) Other issues.
Being on Elisetalk since July 2003 (a year before the U.S. Elise), I remember the excitement waiting for the Elise to come and gratitude to Lotus for FINALLY brining the Elise over. 38 months later, has the feeling changed? Basically, I'm asking are you happy with Lotus management (at least with respect to the North American market). If not, why? What has Lotus done to alienate you?
The Poll is open for 90 days.
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Come on now.
Look at what Porsche is doing releasing 5,000 997 911 variants over the lifetime of the model.
Lotus is doing what it needs to survive. No more no less. Whether it's successful, we'll see about that.
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These are really good questions. If you get a good response, you should send them over to Lotus Corporate. I'm sure they will appreciate the feedback.
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I was thinking today that the way Porsche releases its cars makes a lot more sense. Release the S version first, then a year later release the entry level version. That way your enthusiasts remain loyal, and no one has hard feelings. It seems like every year Lotus has come out with a small upgrade that seems to alienate a segment of those purchasing. It just seems like poor long term planning to me. That being said, I just wanted a N/A Elise and got exactly what I wanted; I wouldn't have bought the Exige or Exige S. If they had come out with a forced induction model of the Elise I might be a tad annoyed, but I don't think that's in the plans at all. So, to summarize, I can understand why people could get mad at Lotus, though I am not personally angered by it.
A:
Originally Posted by Andrikos
Come on now.
Look at what Porsche is doing releasing 5,000 997 911 variants over the lifetime of the model.
Lotus is doing what it needs to survive. No more no less. Whether it's successful, we'll see about that.
Funny you mention that because I was a Boxster owner and was on PPBB for about 6 years. I was thinking about Porsche when typing this poll. I remember a lot of resentment towards Porsche for being "underpowered" compared to the competition, providing only minor increases in horsepower, excessive options costs, building a sport SUV, not having a factory racing team, and how "Porsche has lost their way", etc. But the strange thing is that even though people complained, they still wanted to buy or bought new Porsches. So, I guess my follow up question would be: If you did feel alienated by Lotus, would you still buy another one?
Also, I didn't create this poll because I'm pissed of at Lotus or the current situation of the Elise/Exige/Exige S. I created this poll because I thought I noticed a trend of increasing alienation maybe even hostility towards Lotus. And, I'm pretty sure Lotus monitors this board and thought this would be good customer feedback (even thought it wasn't asked for). Consider it free market research/customer satisfaction.
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I think sort of alluded to this is my previous post -Porsche is confusing. In the past, Porsche released the Boxster and then the Boxster S. They also released the 997 and then the 997S. But they also, released the Cayenne S and then the Cayenne. And, they released the Cayman S and then the Cayman. Also, they charge more for the 997 Cab but charge more for the Cayman (Boxster coupe -okay, I know Cayman owners will argue that). Their product launch and pricing sequences confuse me but I think what Porsche is doing is analyzing the specific customer demographics for each product line and then decides on prices - as opposed to just releasing a base version and then a more powerful version later on -or vice versa.
Going back to Lotus, I think the customer demographics for the Elise/Exige is much more narrower than Porsches products. The similarities between the Elise/Exige are minor compared to the Boxter/911 so optimal product launch and price points are more critical for Lotus -since it's pretty much the same group of customers. But I agree with you, launching a $56K Exige S in 2007 followed by a n/a Exige in 2008 would have been a better move. Then Lotus could have keep production low on the Elise during 2006 to keep the demand up. I guess that's a play from Ferrari's book. BUT THEN AGAIN, hindsight is 20/20 and I have no market research to back this up.
Originally Posted by dfa2100
I was thinking today that the way Porsche releases its cars makes a lot more sense. Release the S version first, then a year later release the entry level version. That way your enthusiasts remain loyal, and no one has hard feelings. It seems like every year Lotus has come out with a small upgrade that seems to alienate a segment of those purchasing. It just seems like poor long term planning to me. That being said, I just wanted a N/A Elise and got exactly what I wanted; I wouldn't have bought the Exige or Exige S. If they had come out with a forced induction model of the Elise I might be a tad annoyed, but I don't think that's in the plans at all. So, to summarize, I can understand why people could get mad at Lotus, though I am not personally angered by it.
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Trust me , got to ANY xyz car brand enthusiasts forum and you will see the exact same things in every single one. I was in the Dodge Dakota RT forums for about 4 years when I owned one ( it was a limited addition 5.9 litre V8 high performance sports truck ). And I can only chuckle now when I see the exact same issues popping up here that I did there. Hey Dodge we need more HP, Hey Dodge my paint is fading, Hey Dodge you are releasing too many RTs this year. Hey Dodge I have a strange rattle / pop / noise coming from ..... It is really interesting.
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Yeah, you are right about Porsche, sometimes. But not always, Porsche did not release the new Turbo until after a year of production of the standard 997, they were still selling the old bodied 911 Turbo, while the new bodied standard 911 was on the showroom floor. However, with the Cayman they released the "S" model first. I like that way better. Release the hot stuff first.
However, it doesn't always make sense. The hot top of the line model SHOULD have the benefit of all of the upgrades that only come about due to customer issues. That being said, to ensure that the top models have the best goodies, they should be released at later dates.
Of course, it is always a double edged sword and depends on what side of it you are on. Just recently I was looking at purchasing a BMW 3 series and I was upset that they only had the 4 door available in the new body style and that I had to wait almost two years to be able to get the new 2 door body style.
Well, basically, I just want what I want when I want it........
To me it seems like Lotus is doing the right thing so far, and actually pretty standard; Start with entry models and move up the line. They don't look at things like "Flooding the Market", typically, I would think, If they sold less, they would have to increase the price.....As a consumer, I don't see a flooded market. I see a niche vehicle, that yes, it is hard to move from the showroom floor, and yes at the same time it is hard to find one used with what you want. When you compare this vehicle to other manufactures and you look at the numbers, there is no way in my opinion that the market is flooded. Yes, yes, I know the cars are out there, but damn they are all over the country and not necessarialy easy to find or access. Being in the 6th largest city in the U.S. I still had to go to CA to purchase mine!!!!
Flooded in my opinion no! Hard to move off the showroom floor, yes. But look at how many dealers, total are out there... Not many in comparison to other car manufactures.
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The reason I feel alienated is that they essentially flat-out lied to us about bringing the Exige S to the states. There were countless releases about them having no intention of bringing new models to the US and about how it would not be street legal while the whole time planning to do just the opposite. That is both dishonest and deceptive.
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the lotus owners are still on their honeymoon compared to the mercedes forums. The best example is the g-wagen, first introduced more or less as a service vehicle in 1979 with small motors and a bare minimum of electronics and then zoom forward todays electronically riddled G55k with 500hp. There are so many different kinds of potential buyers its bizarre. And it's already been though 2 rounds where they offered final special editions because production was "ending"... we'll see how the 3rd round goes... production is again "supposed" to end in 2010... although the only people that are unhappy to hear it's production will continue are the suckers who think a "special edition" badge is going to be worth anything in 5 years.
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you feel alienated ? try owning a Lotus esprit and going to Lotus cars USA or any Lotus dealership with it for service or parts. you think you are alienated ?
they usually say " wow, a Lotus Esprit.. I always heard of those but never really saw one before " . and that from a lotus dealer..
thats why we Esprit guys work on our cars ourselves.
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Originally Posted by Andrikos
Come on now.
Look at what Porsche is doing releasing 5,000 997 911 variants over the lifetime of the model.
Lotus is doing what it needs to survive. No more no less. Whether it's successful, we'll see about that.
Why go that big, how many bough ipod minies before nano came out and the old nano before the new one came out? No company will divulge future products in fear of hurting current model sales.
To balance your question, how many people thank Lotus for helping them with an issue? How about LB as a color added after the buyers asked for it? How about the little things? My window sticke was lost after sale, I asked for another one fully expecting to be told that it was too late, a month or so later one showed up in mail from Hethel. It is what it is.
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Originally Posted by KingOfJericho
The reason I feel alienated is that they essentially flat-out lied to us about bringing the Exige S to the states. There were countless releases about them having no intention of bringing new models to the US and about how it would not be street legal while the whole time planning to do just the opposite. That is both dishonest and deceptive.
That I can agree with. I can understand not wanting to hurt existing sales but Lotus could easily have made a statement that it may come in the future or they're studying the feasiblity or working on the exemption. A misleading excuse would have been better than an outright lie.
As part of damage control, Lotus could offer a reason why that "No U.S. Exige S" statement was made in the first place like:
"Originally, we had no plans to bring the S to the States and it was cost prohibitive -not to mention the exemptions are due to expire in December 2006. However, since the Exige S was released in Europe, we received an overwhelming amount of letters and e-mails both from our dealer network and customers asking us to bring the car to the States. We had no choice. We intentionally limited the 2007 Exige product to 300 car to protect the resale vaule of the 2006 Exige."
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you know what...DEAL with it this is the way the car market works. they aren't going to tell you what is going to be next year then have it not come true cuzz you'd beech about that then. they can't win. if you had a red bike and new the blue one was coming out next week so you sold your red one and then the blue was crappy color you'd be mad cuz "well they said" and you'd stamp your feet and put away.
buy the car you want if you dont' want exactly that car don't settle!
you guys sure sound like a bunch of princesses some times!
ever seen the show sweet 16 on MTV... this thread kinda reminds me of the girls who say"but, but, but daddy my life will be over and none of my friends will like me if i you only buy me this base model benz...i NEED the slk 500! boo hoo, poor me"
next issue the resale...these are friggin cars not investments. why is it lotus corps duty to insure that YOUR car holds it's value. (look ath the price of a 1 week old dodge truck maybe 5k less than sticker?)these cars sold for say 45k and that same car is going used for around 38-40k whats so bad about that. Now it IS their resposibility to warrant what they sell and to stand behind said warranty...unless the buyer abuses the vehicle beyond normal use! racing is not normal use in my opinion. buy a race car!!?? gee theres a concept!
i guess i refer to my initial complaints about extra bolts and the use of sub par components throughout the car...you guys bashed me and said "dude it's a lotus deal with it or sell out." Well i like many on this board am lotus from way back and deep. but many owners here didn't know they were getting the lotus experience and so now they suffer!
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Sure, maybe Lotus didn't handle the Exige S launch as well as they could have, but then again at least it's coming to the States!
It's pretty cool that we can actually choose from three different Lotus models right now. Who woulda thunk it just a few years ago?
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d) Lotus' denial that an Exige S was ever going to come to the states,
I purchased my Elise when they made the no Exige S statement. If I had known the Exige S was coming out, I would have waited.
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Originally Posted by flyguyskt
you guys sure sound like a bunch of princesses some times!
HEY!!! I ain't no princess. I'm a QUEEN!!
But seriously, the issue in my post above was that Lotus essentially lied in not saying it's NOT coming when other alternatives were available. They could have said, we're not sure when, or if it will come.