Q: from one of my favorite sites: www.nsxfiles.com
A few more I would like to add to the pyramid:
Honestly... why do people do "canyon carving?" Because they are afraid to go to the track? Canyon carving is just posing, and it cannot improve track driving skill in any way. I have met a lot of ppl who think they are great at "canyon carving" and do it every weekend, yet when they got to the track, they were holding up everyone. Go carve a pumpkin instead.
"Track Day Passers" -- these are the people who go to a "track day," post their videos, and brag that they passed a ferrari 360 CS. Umm.. that is like bragging that you beat a retarded kid while competing in the special olympics.
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Hrmm...I think you sound serious? so, this is begging a response! So here's my long winded 2 cents:
I respect anyone who actually buys this car, lives with the pains it brings, and has fun in it, period. I think everyone will agree reckless driving on public roads is dangerous (crossing lines, driving hard near where there are driveways, people, joggers, bikers, cars, babies, etc.) After that, to each his own and to assume everyone who buys this car is after timing on a track is probably not correct. We all worship the gods of racing like Senna, but in terms of actually actively trying to be one of them is something that is hard to do for many people. It takes time, money, and a certain lust for high risk/reward scenarios that a lot of people are not comfortable with.
I tend to view the car as a tool, one of great enjoyment and the other as a tool to grow and sharpen skills - people are skewed toward one or both. I'm definately both, and really really love the fact that every weekend I am in town I can meet up with people on a Sunday drive, or go out on Saturday and use the car as it was intended on some twisty roads - while getting amazing scenery of either the ocean or the mountains, real huge benefit for me. I tend to think of it just like owning a bike in California - it's why you live here, to ride in the twisties and enjoy your toy. The pyramid is very true in many regards, it's easy to give lots of props to the guys who are fast, and do it on a track where it's very objective what skill level someone has. But there are a ton of levels in that pyramid, and to say canyon carving is wasted time is taking out a huge percentage of why people have bought this car...people who don't live near the twisties can only dream of such roads near them.
In SoCal you can head out to Angeles Crest anytime, go *LOWER* than the posted speed limits of 55 and have an amazing time in the car. It's free, available 24 hours a day, can be challenging, is totally fun, has incredible views, and can be completely enjoyed without breaking every traffic law known to man. Best part is, you can go to literally hundreds of roads like that anytime - why wouldn't that be a big part of buying a car? I plan to get to about 10-12 track events in a year and that is fairly optimistic - I know I can head out anytime to get some canyons in well within public limits and have a great time. Hell, there are tons of corners up north in the canyons that I wouldn't attempt to take at more than 20mph - and you can get tons of them over and over, some people like new things.
99.9% of us pay to race...the other 0.1% get PAID to race. I am not in that 0.1% and never will be, and I don't know anyone on this forum that is getting paid to race - there might be a handful, but last I checked not many. Track times mean little to me other than as it pertains to my skill level and as a benchmark for myself in getting somewhere personally. But at the end of the day, this is still a street car for me. I will do my darndest to make it safer and more focused (including the driver), but it's still a street car. That means for me and the vast majority of us, it will see more days on the street than the track, and those streets are more fun when they are corners and not the 405
BTW regarding the whole posting video thing, who cares? I think it's cool...people having fun, posting their experiences. If they look silly they look silly, at least they are smiling!
edit: oh and also...a little hate does amazing things for online communities. I am enjoying the whole Macfly versus Ronin...track versus canyon debate. Internet hate binds people together, gives purpose, and unites common thinking. Opinions, options...all good things in the US of A.
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I am not super serious about racing, but you have to admit that the pyramid is an entertaining read, and has some truth in it!
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Originally Posted by Dietrich I am not super serious about racing, but you have to admit that the pyramid is an entertaining read, and has some truth in it!
Most definately, I think street racing and highway racing is...not for us lol. Though I think it would be cool to see something weird, like a monster fast quarter mile machine based on an Elise...or something like a hot chick Elise drift team!
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Originally Posted by Dietrich you have to admit that the pyramid is an entertaining read Maybe the first few times it was posted on any car message board. But after about 700 times, it gets less entertaining.
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I think it is also more entertaining if you know Doug Hayashi who wrote it, and read it in the original context (the S2000 track day).
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Originally Posted by Dietrich
Honestly... why do people do "canyon carving?" Because they are afraid to go to the track? Canyon carving is just posing, and it cannot improve track driving skill in any way. I have met a lot of ppl who think they are great at "canyon carving" and do it every weekend, yet when they got to the track, they were holding up everyone. Go carve a pumpkin instead.
I carved canyons for years before my second track day (first was 10 years prior). When I hit the track I was pulling super fast club racer track times.
Maybe Iw as fast on the motorcycle because I am horrible at carving pumpkins?
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I've never carved a canyon, but I don't see why it is nothing like a racetrack.
If you carve the same canyon in repetition, it would be like learning the track.
Most of the road course tracks in the midwest seem to have as many four legged disruptors and other debris as a canyon would. The only major difference would be a larger number of machines that are nonparticipants.
I have had close calls caused by active participants while on a closed road course.
It's all risky.
m
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I forgot to add:
When I finally got to the track it seemed very easy because:
- I got to use the WHOLE lane.Run off area on the track if neededNo on coming traffic.No painted lines.Less if any debris (Willow Springs at times seemed worse than Palomar fro the winds.Last- no police.
Plus, the track seemed stickier than regular asphalt.
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I guess racing is great, if you have something to prove. I don't have anything to prove; I drive fast for fun -- just fast enough to have fun, no faster. I don't care how fast other people drive. I sure don't need a stopwatch to tell me how much fun I'm having. You might think I have no "skill" because everybody else can get around some 2 mile course faster than me, after practicing that course 1000 times and carefully studying the maximum possible fastest path through each turn. But I get bored of that pretty quick; my "skill" is my ability to have fun and not hurt myself or anyone else. On public roads I can drive all day and not see the same stretch of road more than twice. We're talking hundreds of miles, thousands of turns, not the same 2 miles / 10 turns over and over and over and over. Even a short stretch of extra-fun road like the dragon has 318 turns. Show me a closed course with 318 turns! Sure I could go a lot faster on a closed course, but even at much slower public-road-speeds I have more fun.
P.S. I also have fun at the track. Guess what... I'm not very fast. I don't care!
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Originally Posted by Dietrich
Honestly... why do people do "canyon carving?" Because they are afraid to go to the track? Canyon carving is just posing, and it cannot improve track driving skill in any way. I have met a lot of ppl who think they are great at "canyon carving" and do it every weekend, yet when they got to the track, they were holding up everyone. Go carve a pumpkin instead.
My question to you is: Why would anyone want to own a Lotus and NOT drive it in the canyons every chance they get? I just returned a few minutes ago from a great drive on Angeles Crest Hwy on a beautiful day of record temperatures,clear skies, not much traffic, inexpensive and I don't need to deal with alot of hot shot wanna-be-but-never-will-way-too-serious dangerous drivers with over-inflated egos.
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Originally Posted by pianomaniac Why would anyone want to own a Lotus and NOT drive it in the canyons every chance they get?
Because I cant push the to anywhere near its capabilities without risking my life. After I started track/autocross I no longer go out to the canyons anymore because if I carry enough speed for it to be challenging I am going too fast for an uncontrolled environment.
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Originally Posted by Randy Chase I think it is also more entertaining if you know Doug Hayashi who wrote it, and read it in the original context (the S2000 track day). Doug is one of the reasons I bought my S2000, My brother in law Terry Mcvay and Ken Moss worked with Doug in the Software biz years back and made some serious coin and are good friends - Doug is serious about his cars and offered some good advice that prompted me to buy my first S2000 - The NSX was out of my price range back then as was the Ferrari Good bunch of guys!
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Originally Posted by kaz We all worship the gods of racing like Senna
I'm not even sure who he is. I'll guess he's a really good F1 driver?
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Originally Posted by Keeper I'm not even sure who he is. I'll guess he's a really good F1 driver?
Ah, I knew he sounded familiar. My wife is Brazilian and has mentioned his name a few times. I let her know he raced for Lotus for more cool car points.