A&Q about Lotus
Q:
that cop threw the book at you. let us know what your lawyer says...
A:
Did he have a video camera? Does he have video of you almost hitting the 'mysterious pedestrian'?
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'98, 1st month of Elise ownership, country road, slowing down after nudging 140mph, cop comes over a rise, our eyes meet, I pull over and wait while he turns around. Reckless driving, 114mph in a 45. Get lawyer, go to court. Option #1, $250 fine, driving school and it goes on my record. Option #2, $500 fine and 90 days probation. I immediately start peeling them off of a large roll I had brought and said 'Thank You! Sir'.
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Originally Posted by nugg_dawg
Cop: "You know the govenor of the state says I could do to you right now?"
Maybe you should have said, "Bring it on, big boy." Then, you wouldn't be in this mess.
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I don't recall "almost" hitting someone as being a crime and even so he has to prove it. In CT, you have 24 hours to display your drivers license. Basically you just go to the police station with that ticket and show your license and they will nullify it, of course the officer would never be kind enough to let you in on that fact. Just make sure that officer isn't working the desk.
A:
DOUBLE JEOPARDY - Being tried twice for the same offense; prohibited by the 5th Amendmentto the U.S. Constitution. '[T]he Double Jeopardy Clause protects against three distinct abuses: [1] a second prosecution for the same offense after acquittal; [2] a second prosecution for the same offense after conviction; and [3] multiple punishments for the same offense.' U.S. v. Halper, 490 U.S. 435, 440 (1989).
A:
Lawyer.
It's not just 8 points--it's 8 points closer to loosing your license, and it's months and months of higher insurance premiums.
And, as others have said, there is always a chance that the officer can't show up in court that day, so you walk. It happened to me once.
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There must be several hundred active members on EliseTalk - how are none of them Lawyers?
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Originally Posted by EldersburgElise
Lawyer. It's not just 8 points--it's 8 points closer to loosing your license, and it's months and months of higher insurance premiums. And, as others have said, there is always a chance that the officer can't show up in court that day, so you walk. It happened to me once.
In many areas insurance goes up for three years for a moving violation like speeding. Reckless driving? Negligence? Uhh...the insurance folks won't like that at all compared to getting one 10-over ticket. And they wil find out at some point. Hiring a lawyer is likely to be way cheaper.
Not to mention it would help in the future, if successful. Imagine if you get stopped for a 10 over incident and the officer sees reckless...negligent pop up on his computer? Think you'll get off with a warning? Umm, no, he'll go Captain Midnight on your butt.
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As I said the first time, if you were on private property the owner of the property would have to bring the complaint. He (she) wan't there, therefore cannot bear wittness. The "double jeopordy" won't hold in this case. Each offense can be separated and prosecuted. I like the continuance trick, never tried it but you never know........??????
As someone else said, the fines are neglible compared to what your insurance company will do (if you still have one) when they see 8 points attributed to negligence, recklessness and unreasonable speed for conditions. The only reason I have ever gone to court was to dodge the points. IMHO the majority of traffic law enforcement is revenue generation and it sounds to me like they would like you to keep your license.
Final reiteration, get a lawer. I have never personally seen a defendant successfully challenge an officer in court even if he said something as bizarre as you were driving backwards at 135 mph with an armadillo stuck to your face. At best they expect you to walk in, say I guilty I guess but I'm an idiot and I won't do it again, please don't beat me up. If you pull a kind judge you may get off lightly. If you don't want to do that ---get a lawer, the cop's right by default in court unless your have a raft of expert wittnesses and in your case they do not exist. BTW your clean record will probably go a long way.
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I once went to court for a speeding ticket and the citing officer didn't show up. "Great!" I though, I'm getting out of this ticket. No such luck. The judge simple rescheduled the hearing and subpeoned the officer. He showed up the next time and I lost.
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The most important question here is -- what state are you in?
Each one does things a bit differently. Just don't pay the tickets. This is way too much not to fight, and it sounds like you have a decent shot at winning.
On cross-examination, you ask the cop what evidence he has and it just boils down to, the car looks fast. "Your honor, my car looks fast standing still."
What was the name of the woman I almost hit? Why did you not summon her as a witness? You mean you didn't stop and assist her? You mean she didn't complain?
etc., etc. Any half-decent attorney can do that.
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When I got my reckless driving ticket a few years ago I didn't get a lawyer because I'm cheap. I simply told the judge that I'm a safe driver, I've never had a ticket and that this was a rare exception (or at least something along those lines). Total fine was $75, and for some reason the insurance company didn't find out about it.
Here in VA you can negotiate with the DA before you talk to the judge to try to work out a plea. The DA wanted me to pay a $200 fine, 20 hours of community service, traffic school, and he was only going to knock off the reckless driving I would still have the speeding ticket on my record. I took my chances, and it seems there can be some benefits to just being honest with the judge.
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I'll add to everyone else's comments to get a lawyer.
With or without a lawyer, you should try to find out the severity of the charges. What is the difference between Reckless Driving and Negligent Driving for example? Is it a matter of degree, and if so, how cna you get charged with both? Also, here at least, Reckless Driving is a misdemeanor, which makes it criminal. I don't know what profession you're in, but in my business, a criminal record is a really bad thing from a professional licensing point of view. As bad as it might be to pay higher insurance rates for a few years, your lawyer's most important objective should be to get the charges reduced to something that's no more than a violation.
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Originally Posted by kenp
DOUBLE JEOPARDY - Being tried twice for the same offense; prohibited by the 5th Amendmentto the U.S. Constitution. '[T]he Double Jeopardy Clause protects against three distinct abuses: [1] a second prosecution for the same offense after acquittal; [2] a second prosecution for the same offense after conviction; and [3] multiple punishments for the same offense.' U.S. v. Halper, 490 U.S. 435, 440 (1989).
Exactly, he's citing you three times for the same conduct. At worst, I'm guessing you could only be cited for reckless driving, and with a decent lawyer, you could probably get the whole thing thrown out. The ticket is evidence and it indicates that the cop is contradicting himself - he's claiming you were reckless and negligent at the same time. These are two totally different legal standards and they are mutually exclusive. Get a lawyer!!!
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Originally Posted by EldersburgElise
Lawyer.
It's not just 8 points--it's 8 points closer to loosing your license, and it's months and months of higher insurance premiums.
Anyone want to dare to guess what SR-22 insurance on a Lotus would be? And given how many in this forum own things like STi's, Evo,s the odd Ferrari and if I recall a few Ford GT's, etc... SR-22 is not a good thing. You don't just want a lawyer, you want an attack-trained lawyer that hasn't eaten in a while and is itchin for a fight!
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Originally Posted by AlanS
I'll add to everyone else's comments to get a lawyer.
With or without a lawyer, you should try to find out the severity of the charges. What is the difference between Reckless Driving and Negligent Driving for example? Is it a matter of degree, and if so, how cna you get charged with both? Also, here at least, Reckless Driving is a misdemeanor, which makes it criminal. I don't know what profession you're in, but in my business, a criminal record is a really bad thing from a professional licensing point of view. As bad as it might be to pay higher insurance rates for a few years, your lawyer's most important objective should be to get the charges reduced to something that's no more than a violation.
Generally reckless carries "intent" negligent can be interpreted as you just didn't give a f*&%. Don't assume they overlap. Last time I'll say it -- get a lawer, you don't want this to stand as is on your record.
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Originally Posted by MattG
Get a lawyer. It sounds like he gave you three tickets for the exact same thing. While this isn't a criminal matter, I don't think our justice system normally allows you to face charges more than once per crime.
This was the first thing that I thought of when I read the account.
Get a good lawyer, s/he should be able to take care of things.
If you are counting on the cop not showing up; don't - they get paid to be there as it's part of their job.
If you are counting on getting a continuance, and the cop not showing up the second time; don't - it might just tick him off and he'll make double sure that he's there. I've managed to do this trick, but only with "inside information" - I knew when the cop was scheduled for vacation about a 1,000 miles away. Usually, they will just continue the case until the cop's next scheduled "traffic court date".
If you are counting on explaining it to the judge because you are innocent until proven guilty; don't - in traffic court, in every state, you are guilty unless you can prove beyond any shadow of any doubt that you are innocent (you have to have at least 29 witnesses, and at least three of them have to be priests that don't know you). I've had two cases that stick out in my mind - I was sited for 40 in a 35 zone, and when I proved to the judge (and he agreed) that it was a 45 zone, he knocked the fine in half - after finding me guilty and assigning the points. The other time, I had my witnesses lined up proving that the cop was lying - the judge threw the case out on a technicality and the police listed me as "armed, dangerous, and antagonistic toward police - approach with caution" (translation; shoot to kill). Bottom line is, the cop is always right, the victim - err citizen - is always guilty if the cop says he is.
If you are counting on the laws not applying because the parking lot was private property; don't - often times malls are part of the city - they own the land. Or at least they have an agreement with the owner to enforce the rules. I have even been charged (in California) with speeding - on a dirt bike on closed non-public land (no where near a highway), with nothing around for miles. Even here in Virginia, where the police cannot enforce traffic rules on private property - they still have one "gotcha"... Anything on private property is automatically reckless driving. Rolling through a stop sign in an empty parking lot in the middle of the night with no one around is "reckless driving".
Besides any criminal charges (if they are that in your state), you don't want these charges on your record. As someone else pointed out, the way the "system" will treat you for any future infraction (no matter how minor) will be to come down hard on you.
Your insurance rates will go through the roof for many years to come - if you even have insurance. Most insurance companies will probably drop you as soon as they find out - and then you may not be able to get any other insurance company to cover you.
All the things that people have pointed out - why no charge for "almost" hitting the pedestrian, no complaint from the property owner, double (triple?) jeopardy, etc. - will fall on deaf ears if you try explain them to the judge (you are automatically guilty remember). If your lawyer explains them, you might just get off with a slight slap on the hand and few less dollars in your wallet - much better option than anything else you think you may have.
Get a lawyer. You are going to need one.
A:
i'd say you can at least get out of the speeding... he has no "proof" of your speed. is his eye a calibrated radar gun. FU** NO. the wreckless is hard to beat. but lawyer may plead it down to careless at least.
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Originally Posted by 67veloce
As I said the first time, if you were on private property the owner of the property would have to bring the complaint. He (she) wan't there, therefore cannot bear wittness.
As TimMullen pointed out, this isn't true, at least in CA:
Reckless Driving
23103. (a) Any person who drives any vehicle upon a highway in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty of reckless driving.
(b) Any person who drives any vehicle in any offstreet parking facility, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12500, in willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty of reckless driving.
The "Parking Facility" definition:
(c) ... As used in this subdivision, "offstreet parking facility" means any offstreet facility held open for use by the public for parking vehicles and includes any publicly owned facilities for offstreet parking, and privately owned facilities for offstreet parking where no fee is charged for the privilege to park and which are held open for the common public use of retail customers.
While I agree that you should probably get a Lawyer, I was in a similar situation a long time ago. I won't bore you with the details, but I got a ticket for SEVEN things. From failure to stay on the right side of the road, to unsafe speed for road conditions, to misdemeanor hit and run. When I went to court (you can't just pay away a misdemeanor), without a lawyer, I plead no contest to everything. I didn't say anything except in response to a direct question from the judge, and the end of every sentence was "your honor". He threw out the hit and run charge, told me to do 40 hours of community service and reappear in two months. After the two months, I reappeared and he dropped everything. No record, no fine, just 40 hours of my time. While I had been sitting in the courtroom, wating for my case, he was throwing the book at everyone who brought a lawyer, attempted to deny that they had done whatever they were charged with, or tried to explain it away. So sometimes it may be better to just throw yourself at the mercy of the court and hope for the best... But my story is probably a very rare outcome, ymmv.