A&Q about Lotus
Q:
someone may have already addressed this, but whats the difference between Reckless driving and Negligent Driving? Like someone else said, that seems like being charged twice for the same action just under a different name. I definately dont condone what you did (or driving like that on a cold engine) but good luck in court anyway
A:
Originally Posted by RideMooch
someone may have already addressed this, but whats the difference between Reckless driving and Negligent Driving?
5. "Reckless driving" is defined as operating a motor vehicle either (1) in a wanton or willful disregard for the safety of persons or property or (2) in a manner that indicates a wanton or willful disregard for the safety of persons or property. Tran. §21-901.1(a)
6. "Negligent driving" is defined as operating a motor vehicle in a careless or imprudent manner that endangers any property or the life or person of any individual. Tran. §21-901.1(b)
Basically, since the officer claims he almost hit someone, he was able to use "Negligent driving". I've seen them go together a lot (at least around here).
A:
Originally Posted by dduane
Sorry, we should throw you in jail, IF you hit the 2nd cam with a cold engine while leaving a parking space.
That's the first thing that came to my mind, when I read the first posting. Surprised no one mentioned earlier. I'm always looking at the temp gage the first few minutes, just in case... Hope your E is OK.
BTW Good Luck
dduane,
My engine was not cold. I drove 300 feet(2 stores down from my gym) to my friends restaurant in the same parking lot to drop off these 40% off coupons for foot locker. We actually sat outside his restaurant while my friend was smoking a cig and talked about the car. The whole time I never turned the car off because the HID's look so dang good at night. So my engine was adequately warmed up. I would never abuse the Elise like that.
John
A:
Well, today was my court date.......I got a very satisfactory result. I would like to thank Exigent for the referrals. In the end I settled with a gentleman named James (Jimmy) Psoras in Towson, MD. Here's the trial summary.
The above case was heard today ,10/25/2006 by
The court's finding's is as follows:
Citation #1
DRIVING VEH ON HWY AT SPEED GREATER THAN REASONABLE
Plea - NOT GUILTY Verdict - NOT GUILTY
Total fines and costs $0.00, no amount due.
Citation #2
NEGLIGENT DRIVING
Plea - NOT GUILTY Verdict - PBJ
Traffic fine $150.00 costs $25.50
Total fines and costs $175.50, $175.50 due today.
Citation #3
Reckless Driving
Plea - NOT GUILTY Verdict - NOT GUILTY
Total fines and costs $0.00, no amount due.
Had I lost my, fines would've been in the $900's, and thats the easy part. Had I lost I would have been stuck with 8 points and no insurance or insane insurance premiums.
It was AWSOME to watch my lawyer at work. First of all, he's known the judge for a long long time, and whats even better my lawyer's father is friends with the judge. Someone posted "who you have standing next to you representing you is half the battle" well it's true. Second, my lawyer made a mockery of what the officer stated. The speeding citation was dropped because he couldn't prove it, he never clocked me. FWIW, officer states I was doing 55 in first gear......yeah right. My lawyer also argued the Reckless driving citation by stating that reckless means "wanton disregard for safety" and I was in a mall parking lot at 10 pm and no one else was there. Officer could not provide any witnesses as to me almost running someone over. So in the end, I got a PBJ on the negligent driving which I'll admit to.
On a side note, when you plead not guilty you get sworn and the officer reads off his notes as to his account. Well, as soon as the officer said '05 black Lotus you could hear the chit chat level in the court room immediately stop. Another funny side note, as I was leaving the court room I walked out with the citing officer, he goes "so you stuck 'ol Jimmy Posras on me huh? Good job." I guess I had the cops kryptonite, because during questioning the cop really didn't have anything meaningful to say. One last funny thing was when waiting to pay my fines another lawyer asks me "a Lotus huh? How much do those run like 200K?" I say sure. Then she goes "congratulations, Jimmy is a good litigator as well as a nice guy."
So, after 2 months stressing about this day, I end up with the best scenario. No guilty verdicts, and a teeny tiny fine. I am so friggin' happy right now, I think I'll order that Valentine.
John
A:
PBJ? Your fine is a sandwich?
A:
Originally Posted by nugg_dawg
So, after 2 months stressing about this day, I end up with the best scenario. No guilty verdicts, and a teeny tiny fine. I am so friggin' happy right now...
John
Man, is your avatar ever appropriate today.
A:
I am glad it worked out OK!
Sorry I didn’t have the time the read the entire thread but what county did you get the tickets in? I am guessing Baltimore or Howard as they seem to have the most “by the book” cops in Maryland.
A:
i didn't know what pbj... all i knew was peanut butter and jelly...
so i looked it up and i ended up finding that it means Probation Before Judgement
"If PBJ is granted, the guilty verdict is stricken and you are not legally convicted, therefore you will not be assessed points against your driving record."
interesting...
A:
Wow, congrats on wining the case. If you don't mind me asking....How much does in roughly cost to get a lawyer to represent you on a traffic case?
A:
Nugg:
Got your PM. Thanks. I'm very glad it all worked out for you. I like Jimmy P. Most people do. He's a decent lawyer and most everyone thinks he's a nice guy. He's the kind of lawyer who can work things out without alientating everyone. He doesn't scream or threaten people. Even the officer can't get too mad at him. He sometimes comes off as "overly polite" (ie. kissing too much a$$ in court), but Judges eat that up. "Good morning your honor. It is a pleasure to see you today." Not totally my style, but no one can say that he's disrespectful.
I think the result is appropriate. You pay a little fine to learn your lesson and you don't have your rates and driving privilege messed up. Did your lawyer have to offer up anything about you in mitigation to get you the PBJ (such as your education background or your occupation?) or did the Judge just offer it based on your clean driving record and the facts of the case?
Just wondering if "Gilman" ever came up. Some of us private school types tend to get preferential treatment. It's not exactly fair, but my clients named Latrell who have braids in their hair and a 10th grade education don't generally make out as well as my lacrosse playing clients from St. Paul's. Same offense - same clean record - totally different result. It's the "old boy's network" alive and well in Baltimore County.
A:
GOOD JOB, Nugg!
A:
Originally Posted by bluejae
i didn't know what pbj... all i knew was peanut butter and jelly...
so i looked it up and i ended up finding that it means Probation Before Judgement
"If PBJ is granted, the guilty verdict is stricken and you are not legally convicted, therefore you will not be assessed points against your driving record."
interesting...
I think there is another part to a PBJ. I believe if you get pulled over for any other violation within 3 years of the judgement they are allowed to recharge you with the charges that were "dropped" under the PBJ. I think the logic is that if you screw up again then you aren't as responsible or didn't learn you lesson so you should get punished for what happened to you the first time around.
I got a PBJ judgement in college when I supposedly didn't come to a complete stop at 4:30am on a small campus road that NO ONE was on at all. The cop then made me take sobriety test (I never drink) which of course I passed and that pissed him off so he wrote me a ticket for failing to stop at a stop sign. I just explained the circumstances to the judge and said I basically just didn't want the points on my license. I had to pay some fine and court fees, but never got the points.
A:
Originally Posted by crisis
I think there is another part to a PBJ. I believe if you get pulled over for any other violation within 3 years of the judgement they are allowed to recharge you with the charges that were "dropped" under the PBJ. I think the logic is that if you screw up again then you aren't as responsible or didn't learn you lesson so you should get punished for what happened to you the first time around.
Not in Maryland. The only thing you give up when you accept Probation Before Judgment is your right to appeal the finding of the Court.
In criminal cases, you can get a PBJ and still be placed on probation. If you then violate probation, you can be brought back to court for a VOP (Violation of Probation) where you can face jail time (up to the max. sentence allowed for the original charge for which you were technically found guilty) and you can have the PBJ stricken and the guilty finding imposed.
For example, you are 50 years old and you steal something worth $800 from AutoZone. You have no record and have always been a law abiding person. You just made a mistake and stole 800 air fresheners because you were drunk at the time. You plead guilty or you're found guilty of the crime. A guilty finding on your record for a Theft (over $500) is a felony conviction. Kiss your job and career goodbye (along with your right to vote, etc.). A Judge may not want to permanently criminalize you that way -- so you are offered a PBJ and told to do 100 hours community service, pay $800 in restitution, and to attend alcohol counseling as a condition of probation. 4 months later you are arrested (and later convicted) again - OR - maybe you never attend your alcholol counseling - OR - maybe you didn't pay the restitution as required - OR - you didn't do your community service hours, etc. The Court can bring you back in for a VOP hearing. If found in violation of probation, you can be facing 1) anything up to 15 years (the max. penalty for felony theft). But it's likely the Judge will just strike the PBJ and enter the GUILTY finding on your record. Now you're a felon -- have a nice life and have fun getting a job!
Traffic court isn't quite the same way. Once you get a PBJ, it's pretty rare that it gets stricken later. One exception would be for a DWI. But if no conditions were placed on Nugg's PBJ, it's likely it'll never be touched. Nugg can go out tonight and get 10 more tickets & all he'll be facing is the new charges.
A:
Originally Posted by Exigent
Just wondering if "Gilman" ever came up. Some of us private school types tend to get preferential treatment. It's not exactly fair, but my clients named Latrell who have braids in their hair and a 10th grade education don't generally make out as well as my lacrosse playing clients from St. Paul's. Same offense - same clean record - totally different result. It's the "old boy's network" alive and well in Baltimore County.
What year did you graduate? My parents threatened me with Gilman, McD, and St. Pauls, but I insisted on staying public @ Pikesville, which at the time was close enough to private for me...
A:
Lotus Elise traffic fines, $175.
EliseTalk membership...Priceless!
A:
Glad you got off and hope you learnt your lesson.
A:
Originally Posted by Serebo1
What year did you graduate? My parents threatened me with Gilman, McD, and St. Pauls, but I insisted on staying public @ Pikesville, which at the time was close enough to private for me...
I think Nugg said in some other thread that he was a Gilman graduate (although I may have him confused with someone else). I attended Friends School of Baltimore....right around the corner. They edumacated me goodly, but I won't be sending my kids there. Too many freaky tree-hugger types (sorry Oregon ETalkers). Pikesville is one of the better public schools. It's changed a bit in recent years, but the smart kids in the A.P. classes still go on to nice colleges.
How'd you escape Baltimore? Many try, but few succeed.
A:
Originally Posted by Exigent
I think Nugg said in some other thread that he was a Gilman graduate (although I may have him confused with someone else). I attended Friends School of Baltimore....right around the corner. They edumacated me goodly, but I won't be sending my kids there. Too many freaky tree-hugger types (sorry Oregon ETalkers). Pikesville is one of the better public schools. It's changed a bit in recent years, but the smart kids in the A.P. classes still go on to nice colleges.
How'd you escape Baltimore? Many try, but few succeed.
Ah, Friends... yes, I do remember that being one of the liberal-minded schools; those I know who attended seem to be doing pretty well these days.
My escape from Baltimore came on the coattails of Barry Levinson. I always had a love of movies, but it was spending time on the set of Avalon that really did it for me. I was hooked. So, I packed my bags and headed west, without a clue. Took me eight years of scraping and struggling to break in, but all seems to have worked out. Looking back, I must have been F'in out of my mind!
A:
Get a lawyer and let him deal with it. I have gotten four or five reckless driving tickets in the last few years and none of them have stuck.
On a side note, was this east or west baltimore? was the grassy knoll a city/county/state maintained road? or private property? I have done some dumb shii in a parking lot before and the judge threw it out no attorney needed because it was private property.
A:
You need to find an OG, patten leather shoe wearin', slicked back hair havin' traffic attorney. I got this dude mike, all I have to do is fax him the tickets and any other correspondence and meet him in the lobby the day of court and break him off his $200 flat fee and be on my way.
Oh and that continuance/cop not showing up, that hasn't worked in a long time...