A&Q about Lotus
Q:
What would cause a vague steering wheel feeling on the Elise while driving in the canyons? When I’m on the freeway or city streets, the feedback is fine. But on my drive to work, it's horrible. I drive through residential canyons (some are very narrow and off camber). It’s when I drive through these canyons that the feedback feels disconnect or vague which causes me to drive by sight rather than feel the corner. Also, the Elise does not feel planted. It’s felt worse today than the last time I drive the Elise (last Friday).
I have the sport package and A048 tires. Here are some of things that may be causing the problem. What do you think?
1) TIRE PRESSURE: 26/29. I know some have recommend going below factory recommendations but I’m a bit reluctant.
When the ambient temperature is around 75 degrees, I can take my finger and with effort, push in the front sidewall at 26 psi. I can do the same with the back but it’s a bit harder than the front. That bothers me a bit.
Also, I get a short moaning/groaning noise from the front when my steering wheel is at full lock to the left or right and I start moving. Almost sounds like a burp.
2) TIRES: I’m running A048 medium compound in the rear. They only about 300 miles old. Heat cycles? Well, maybe 20 but under normal driving.
HOWEVER, my front tires are medium hard compounds and are still originals tires. They’re 2 years old with 10,000 miles on them. I have about 3-4 mm of thread left.
3) AMBIENT TEMPORATURES AND DRIVE DURATION. Temperatures on my drive to work are in the mid-60 degrees. My drive is only about 8 miles or 15 – 20 miles – all canyon (no freeway).
4) ALIGNMENT. Steering wheel feels straight on level roads but that’s just eyeballing it.
To give you an idea of the roads, here’s a picture (ignore the motorcycle this is the only picture I have of the road). The roads are relatively well paved but some are narrow:
Any thoughts what could be causing the vague feel? It’s like driving a economy car – with a short wheel base (twitchy). However, on the freeway at 80mph, it feels planted and stable.
A:
I never have that problem. Following 9 other Lotus cars on the Sunday drive in L.A., every car seemed strong in all of the corners.
Your front and rear tires are different compounds?
Could be part of the "feel" problem...
A:
Oh, the other factor could be just the driver.
The car handles well and can take whatever turn I put it into but with understeer tendencies. It's just the feel...well, it feel Corvette like. I test drove a '01 Z06 a few years ago and it seemed to have lots of grip but just didn't have the feedback. That's how my Elise feels in those canyons.
A:
My car has been stellar on the sunday canyon drives and around town, but I notice as I pull down the ramp at my work from the first story to the second story I get this really bizzare sensation that the car is not steering properly and not responding. I think the ramp is kind of wavy, so my front right is getting lifted and the back left pushed down as I make the sweeping turn at a steep downhill angle. I think because this car gives you so much feedback that if you hit a strangely laid out road such as a gentle bulge on a downhill turn you get a feeling like you are not in control (even though you are )
A:
I think road features may be a definite possibilty. The section of road I have the most trouble with is a very narrow off camber road adjacent to the Rose Bowl (S. Arroyo Blvd). It's very narrow and off camber to channel rain water.
I'll take a picture on the way home.
In contrast, there's some canyons I use to drive in when I lived in Arizona and the Elise felt like it could do double the speed limit with ease. But again, the variables between CA and AZ are still the roads and car condition so that comparision isn't worth much.
A:
You're not running over bunnies, are you? I heard they can give you a vague "feel".
A:
No, but I've almost hit a few deers on my way to work. If I should hit one, I'll let you know if the steering improves.
Incidentally, the males are scary when you're in the Elise and they stand right next to you with those massive antlers. They look large enough to over turn the Elise. The one I met the other day was on the opposite side of the road. Apparently, I was too small for him to feel like he need to move out of the way.
A:
Originally Posted by Allan Gibbs
HOWEVER, my front tires are medium hard compounds and are still originals tires. They’re 2 years old with 10,000 miles on them. I have about 3-4 mm of thread left.
I think this is what your problem is.
$400 later and you won't be complaining about it...
Maybe even try different tires with longer lifecycle and comparable grip.
A:
Could your front tires be heat cycled out? That is a lot of mileage for the A048's. Might be pretty hard.
A:
Alan, are the front camber shims still installed in your car? If so, I would consider pulling them.
Are your tires warmed up to temp when you are driving these roads? Is the traction suspect? Either of these could cause the front to push a bit and not respond quickly.
A:
Our suspensions are so stiff that in the right circumtance I could see where one of your front wheels could be off the ground a little bit for a second, say a gentle but deep dip in road that ran at an angle across it so your cars front wheels hit it at different times, pushing one back corner down and the opposing front corner up. And roads that are banked the wrong way up to drain rain to the outer edges are always freaky on corners ! I watched a mini S come at an angle slowly up our work driveway and his front right tire came up off the ground and plopped down as he reached mid point !
A:
I replaced my front tires this morning after 5700 miles and a bunch of track days / autocrosses and felt an immediate difference while driving on the freeway to work. I can't think of a good way to describe the difference, but the car once again feels like I'm on my hands and knees inspecting the road.
A:
Okay. So it's probably a combination of:
1) Heat cycled out front tires; and
2) Tires not warming up enough (I'm not sure how I can do that without doing burnouts. )
What are the front camber shims? Are they removed on all Elise?
A:
Here ya go, Alan.
A:
Originally Posted by Surferjer
You're not running over bunnies, are you? I heard they can give you a vague "feel".
"I'll give you a vague feel..." Signed, one pissed off Peter Rabbit
A:
Here's an image of the narrowest roads I travel. Actually, it's the opposite lane that's narrow (my drive to work). You can see the negative camber on the opposite lane too. Sorry for the blurry shot. The Elsie was in motion when I took it. The roads don't look bumpy but it was hard to keep the cell camera still.
A:
You need new front tires.
A:
SurferJer and some others have said that the most "alive"-feeling setup is to run the AD07s on an LSS car & wheels. I'm thinking of trying that out with my next change, but since you just bought new rears that's probably not so attractive. Something to keep in mind.
And - every time you mention your drive to work I'm a little jealous.
A:
Originally Posted by JWA
And - every time you mention your drive to work I'm a little jealous.
Yeah, that's why I post pictures.
And if you look carefully, you can see the little bunny on the side of the road waiting to cross.
A:
How can you ignore the sexy ass of an MV?