A&Q about Lotus
Q:
I have been tracking my car for a while now and on some sections of some tracks, I do not want to grab the next higher gear only to downshift 2 seconds later.. I have been letting it bounce off the rev limiter at 8.5k in 4th gear instead. Should I be concerned? I know the 2zz does not live happily at 9k, but I am only going up to 8.5k every lap...
A:
rev limiter should keep you safe, but you should also try to work at carrying a bit more speed at the begining of that section to make the up shift worthwhile - you could make up more time than you think there.
A:
I would think the rev limiter is dropping your time because it drops the engine speed slightly(It doesn't "hold" it at 8500 - it basically shuts the motor off and on). I hear Elise drivers doing that occassionally and it just makes me cringe to think what the motor is going through getting toggled on and off like that. Maybe I'm just imagining the worst. Can you just keep it shy of the limit and avoid the power loss? Easier said than done I'm sure.
A:
It's just removing spark temporarily... not a huge thing...
A:
Originally Posted by macfly
rev limiter should keep you safe, but you should also try to work at carrying a bit more speed at the begining of that section to make the up shift worthwhile - you could make up more time than you think there.
I agree with macfly here. try focusing on the corner 2 before the one thats giving you the problem, and see how you can work your way to get more momentum to make the up shift work for you. you will be surprised at how running not on the cams, in a lower rpm, but being smooth will make you faster. on the cams works good for accelerating, using midrange will help you carry the speed smoothly into the corner, drop the gear to either enter the turn, or wait until the exit of the problem turn to drop the gear. get someone to clock you, that is the only test.
I was amazed when i roadraced bikes at how much faster I was when i was smooth, not ragging the edge of my engine rmps, and traction making me slide and loose speed because I scrubbed off momentum.
words to live by when trying to go fast.
SMOOTH IS FAST
write it on a piece of tape and put it on your dashboard.
many think that sliding the car around and ragging the machine is a sign of going fast, its not, its a sign out not being in controll of you car.
smooth...........................
A:
Same problem here. As I came out of the corner faster, I'm now on a short straight and popping the rev limiter. I've worked at it enought to almost justify the upshift. Now it's definitely necessary to upshift but requires a n downshift a second later. It certainly keeps you busy. Solutions:
Changing replacing final drive gears (on other cars this would be a practical solution)
Going with a shorter rear tire. (It won't make much difference unless you change the diameter a lot)
modifying the engine for more acceleration to get to the upshift earlier so you're in that gear long enough to use it.
Lighten the car so the effect if the same as more power
Modify the engine so it can handle higher rpms and change the rev limiter (more engine wear and dead valve springs)
Use stickier tires to maintain more speed thru corners. It won't help that much, but it help a little anyway
pull a rabbit out of a hat and come out of the corner sooner faster
I'll likely get stickier tires, as I'll be needing some anyway. The power increase
is in the future, maybe a supercharger.
A:
stickier tires will help, but so too will short shift, or not downshifting for he previous corner - ie: use momentum - not power.
Next time you are in that section do three laps the old way, then try doing it in a higher gear. If you're bouncing off the limiter in one gear you'll be in the powerband in the next one.
A:
Well.......................the FIRST time the rev limiter DOESN'T work......you'll wish you wouldn't have done it this way. kaboommmmmmmmmmm
A:
heel and toe will make things better...not great but better
A:
I've bounced off my rev limiter on the track quite a bit, and you will esp if you continue to improve and carrry more speed thru turns. Chassis to me is less disturbed bouncing off rev limiter than trying to throw in an upshift or maintenancing throttle yourself. You have to debate if the upshift and down shift are worth the time and effort thou, it very debatable and something like a DL1 is the only real way to tell what's faster.
As for the engine, I haven't found hitting the rev limiter to lead any problems yet. It's there to keep you from something bad... If you watch any of my vidi, I hit the rev limiter quite a bit, oh well... My Cartoon Car still runs great, at 172 really fun track sessions and counting with 25k miles...
Learn to drive the car, she holds up very well ...
A:
Originally Posted by Dietrich
I have been tracking my car for a while now and on some sections of some tracks, I do not want to grab the next higher gear only to downshift 2 seconds later.. I have been letting it bounce off the rev limiter at 8.5k in 4th gear instead. Should I be concerned? I know the 2zz does not live happily at 9k, but I am only going up to 8.5k every lap...
Well like macfly said you might one pick up some speed on your corners.... You can get some slicks or some sticky tyres... but remember if your not use to your car slicks are very forgiveing..
For the Rev limiter... you keep depending on your rev limiter you might have some Kaboom so go ahead shift into next gear imo or use your heal to toe to downshift
Might save you some grief in the end
Antoni
A:
Originally Posted by macfly
not downshifting for the previous corner - ie: use momentum - not power.
ding!,exactly, +1
A:
Slicks are not the way to go. Street tires speak to you more easily than slicks imo. Finding the line, understanding the line, and learning to carry more speed through corners with your car "just the way it is" is the best way to learn. I never suggest car upgrades to anybody before their driving outdoes the car's ability. You can make up for things you don't know with more stick, or more hp, but in the end, you're no better, just faster...
Work on smooth momentum, and the rev limiter will never be a problem, because you'll be in the next gear up...
A:
Originally Posted by YAUDI
I've bounced off my rev limiter on the track quite a bit, and you will esp if you continue to improve and carrry more speed thru turns. Chassis to me is less disturbed bouncing off rev limiter than trying to throw in an upshift or maintenancing throttle yourself.
Agreed.
You should have seen me catch 4th this morning in Big Bend, with the wheel still wound up, well before the exit cone. My whole world moved over about one car-width and my only thought was, "I'm goin' off!" I gathered it back up right at the edge of the track.
Back to bouncing off the limiter for me.
A:
Good points by Mcfly and others.
One other issue to consider with regard to the manner in which the rev-limiter operates. It will allow you to exceed 8500 rpm's for several seconds (especially in the higher gears) under load such that the engine will see 8800-8900 rpm's.
My two cents -- I'd try to avoid numerous and repetitive rev-limiter hits -- don't assume that the engine wil not see more than 8500 rpm's under power.
A:
Also if you hit the rev limiter to many times in a specified period of time the ECU goes into "limp home" mode until you hook up a scanner and clear the code.
Ask Mark Starr about this, I think he limped in to the paddock like three times at the last Lime Rock Park event.
A:
What if i told you that the reason i'm hitting the limiter is because i am fast going out of the corner, not slow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A:
Originally Posted by Dietrich
What if i told you that the reason i'm hitting the limiter is because i am fast going out of the corner, not slow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what if we told you to be in a higher gear going into the corner , or maybe, your car is just not geared for this particular area of the track.
when I was roadracing motorcycles, we would have spare sprockets of various sizes and gear the bike to each track. it was easy on a bike. not so easy to change this stuff on cars.
truth is, you are the only one who is there living it, the answer lies within grasshopper.
take the stone..............
when you do, it is time for you to go(faster)
A:
short shift and get 225/40 or 235/45 rear tires when yours wear out.
A:
I say, ask an instructor to ride WITH you for a session. see what he can tell you. its really impossible to comment on this, as there are so many variables to the question, and not being in the car, on THAT track, on THAT corner, and THOSE corners leading up to THIS corner.
even have 2 different instructors ride along on 2 different sessions(you might get to different types of input).
when I had my Elise, it was never hard to get an instructor to go for a ride.
one mention of it, and they usually found someone to cover whatever it was they were supposed to be doing at that time, and came running back smiling with their helmet, ready to go.
Ride in the Lotus?
"yes please."
hope thats some sound advice
Fishguy