A&Q about Lotus
Q:
Originally Posted by fishguyAZ
I say, ask an instructor to ride WITH you for a session. see what he can tell you. its really impossible to comment on this, as there are so many variables to the question, and not being in the car, on THAT track, on THAT corner, and THOSE corners leading up to THIS corner.
even have 2 different instructors ride along on 2 different sessions(you might get to different types of input).
when I had my Elise, it was never hard to get an instructor to go for a ride.
one mention of it, and they usually found someone to cover whatever it was they were supposed to be doing at that time, and came running back smiling with their helmet, ready to go.
Ride in the Lotus?
"yes please."
hope thats some sound advice
Fishguy
the extra weight might slow him down enough that he wont hit the rev limiter though
A:
Originally Posted by codymac
Agreed.
You should have seen me catch 4th this morning in Big Bend, with the wheel still wound up, well before the exit cone. My whole world moved over about one car-width and my only thought was, "I'm goin' off!" I gathered it back up right at the edge of the track.
Back to bouncing off the limiter for me.
What? You went to TMS this weekend? Details please?
xtn
A:
No more than 8500 RPMs and limp mode ??? Maybe this is true for the +'06 cars, but my non-DBW top 5 revs in ECU are all above 8800 RPMs (which is were I believe the true rev limit is). Unlike some, I've never had issues find the right gear. Lotus or dealers do not use this statistic snigularly, but your results will vary...
I've never gone into limp mode from hitting rev limiter, and believe me, I am not trying too. If you are faster and faster, you will run out of gear till you can adjust. It's just if I hit it, I don't sweet ... You think the Margins of Safety go negative once you exceed 8900 RPMs, that's not how things work in the real world. As Toyota, I'd rationalize they'd make public, conservative numbers and definitely have less predicabiltiy over longer duty cycles as revs get over 8500 RPMs, consistently, not the brief periods of time we are at it...
I will say I am the only one I believe that has broken a clutch assy drive strap (all covered by Lotus ). Otherwise, my car has been rock solid, hitting rev limiter or not. I will say, it is better to be safe than sorry, it's your car, do what you feel is best.
Bottomline, there are much more important things to worry about then the rev limiter when you are on the track. This is just my experience with the Elise and my $.02...
A:
There's a rev limiter?
xtn
A:
Kind of a side question, but related:
Aren't there reports of the rev limiter not cutting it soon enough, and your ECU dump will then show all kinds of over-revs that are not related to a miss downshift?
A:
Originally Posted by xtn
What? You went to TMS this weekend? Details please?
xtn
MSR.
Originally Posted by Scott in Houston
Kind of a side question, but related:
Aren't there reports of the rev limiter not cutting it soon enough, and your ECU dump will then show all kinds of over-revs that are not related to a miss downshift?
Only if you've got the updated software.
A:
I think the tell-tail is anything over 9000 RPM, you've definitely goofed one way or another ...
Hey Codymac, thanks for letting us know you were heading out . I'll be looking for you next time, with a vengence ...
A:
Originally Posted by Scott in Houston
Kind of a side question, but related:
Aren't there reports of the rev limiter not cutting it soon enough, and your ECU dump will then show all kinds of over-revs that are not related to a miss downshift?
no revlimiter can help the mis-shift into the too low of gear..
ie. going 80 and downshifting into 2nd..
A:
Originally Posted by codymac
MSR.
Uh... yeah... I meant to say that...
...but anyway... you call that "details?"
xtn
A:
There are other threads about transmission warranty and "overrevs" of 8600.
In a real race car, you would select your gearing to match the course. Texas World Speedway would call for a taller 3rd gear IMHO. I'm always near the top of 3rd, whereas 4th is too tall.
Or, it's me. Upshifting to 4th is great, but then the downshift screws up the corner at the end of the straight. What, I'm just a bad driver?
Damn.
You can always mask your deficiencies with $$$. Slicks and a paddleshifter/DSG would make me look like Schumaker.
A:
I saw a graph of the torque curves in each gear here on Elisetalk a few days ago (Maybe from Sandsmuseum) that showed short shifting from 4th to 5th around 8K rpm was better than trying to redline in 4th and then shifting.
A:
It sounds like some are treating the rev limiter with a bit of superstition. This is not a high-strung Ferrari engine, it's a Toyota that's designed to sit on the rev limiter all day long. I drove a 4A-GE bouncing off the limiter for 100,000 miles with no problems.
There's nothing complicated about a basic rev limiter. It's part of the fuel/timing map -- you're at 8000 rpm you get X degrees of advance for spark. You hit 8500-8800, you get no spark. No spark = no combustion until the revs drop back to the point on the map where you do get spark (say 8000 or 8400 rpm). When there's no combustion going on you're not going to hurt the engine.
My car's an 06 and I bounce it off the limiter all day long on the track and street, probably more than a better driver would do. Never had any "limp home" problems -- I wonder if there are other causes involved for that?
A:
Originally Posted by xtn
Uh... yeah... I meant to say that...
...but anyway... you call that "details?"
xtn
He's trying to gain on you too...
Jefferson and I have talked a number of times when which gear is better or not, it's very difficult to determine without DL1, and esp when your pace continues to increase. Again, there are many other things you guys should be focusing on, like having fun...
A:
Originally Posted by FlyLo
You can always mask your deficiencies with $$$. Slicks and a paddleshifter/DSG would make me look like Schumaker.
not to be a total dick, but maybe they would make you think that in your own mind, but thats not the way it works when viewed through the eyes of others.
the non front running f-1 drivers are amazing.
the items might masks some deficiencies, but not make you know how to do things that you dont know how to do.
not trying to attack you, but just being realistic.
fish
A:
It might be easier to stay on the limiter and not shift, but then you are being complacient with your current skills and therefore hinder your progress as a driver.
If you keep practicing your shifts (up and down) you get to be smooth enough to do them everywhere, anytime, without upsetting the car (got to 5th for 1-2 secs only, upshift midcorner, on exit, etc...), and using all the powerband and acceleration distance you have is always the fastest way around (hitting the limiter is equivalent to cruising).
A:
Originally Posted by fishguyAZ
words to live by when trying to go fast.
SMOOTH IS FAST
write it on a piece of tape and put it on your dashboard.
many think that sliding the car around and ragging the machine is a sign of going fast, its not, its a sign out not being in controll of you car.
smooth...........................
Don't get me started Smooth is often the right way except when its not.
Anyway, hitting the rev limiter is neither a sign of being fast or being slow. Its simply a sign of running of of a particular gear on a strech of track. I don't care what I do in T2 at Thunderhill its not going to be worth grabing 4th before T3. I hit the limiter all the time at Laguna. I am not sure how much more speed you think I can carry but its going to be hard to use 4th before getting to T10.