A&Q about Lotus
Q:
So probably a pretty stupid and pointless question, but something for discussion. I'm 20 years old, going to school for management. I plan on going for my associates for now and MAYBE go for my bachelors in a couple years. I HATE school more than anything else in the world - but i have made deans list last 2 semesters. It's not that I slack off...i just don't like it.
Obviously most of you are pretty well off since you're driving a Lotus and I was just wondering if any have associates degrees, or what your input is?? Everyone tells me that you can't get a REALLY good job with 'just' an associates. But noone says you are guaranteed with a bachelors either. I've worked full time for the last several years...had good "real" jobs making more money than any of my other friends or anyone else i know my age basically. (Making 35k+ for the last 2 yrs) It is really tough working full time and going to school full time, but I do have a really good work ethic. I've always had to find jobs that could work around my school schedule since I go 5 days/week in the mornings. I'm SOOOO sick of working till 8 or 9 EVERY night and can't wait till i can get a normal 8-5 schedule. What do you guys think??
A:
I guess that depends.
If you are good with what you do, and I mean, REALLY GOOD, you don't need a degree.
Example in the IT Industry is that if you have a CCIE certification, you can get a decent networking job w/o a B.S/B.A degree.
If can shoot 3-pointers and make over 40% of your attempts, go to a try-out and work your way up to the NBA. I'm sure you don't need a college degree either if you're good enough.
A:
just remember, the richest people in the world all dropped out of college.
A:
I went to college for a year. I hated school too. Fast forward 31 years to this week. I'm negotiating for a job and the HR people are trying to use the lack of a degree to pay me less money. This is after 20+ years experience! Needless to say I was pretty surprised. This is the first time it has been an issue, ever. Not trying to tell you to drop out or anything, just don't believe a degree--in and of itself--is a free ticket to prosperity.
A:
Thats BS. All you need in life is drive. My situation I wanted to be an architect and graduated from University of Maryland with a B.S. in architecture (Maryland has a very good engineering and architecture program, they are up there with Northwestern and Syracuse). True a B.S. only gets you BS jobs, and the only intresting openings in places such as L.A. and NYC were only for experienced architects with a MS. I said screw it, either I go back to school for the M.S. or I find something. I found a speciality wine store and it's been very very good to me. It's coming up on 3 years since I've owned it, and I'm loving it. It gives me freedoms that a white collared job would not give you.....like golfing. Heh. The "10% of all businesses succeed" is bullsh!t IMHO I never even paid attention to it, they are just people who quit.
Anyways, stay in school if you think your lost. Goto to grad school, atleast it's an excuse to not work. Make yourself so smart that no one will pass you up. But then again, you will pay off your college loans for like 30 years.
Do whatever your instinct tells you, and be passionate about it. Never be afraid to bust your a$$. In this day and age, even a M.S. can't get hired.
Good Luck!
John
BTW, I was in your shoes, same scenario.
A:
A wine store is really such a good idea!!! You just hand people the wine bottle with your left hand under the bottle and your right hand wrapped around the neck, and the wannabe wine conisseurs will go crazy for it.
A:
If you are making a boat-load of cash right now, I could see putting the schooling aside. If not, I think it's unlikely that most people will come out ahead without (at least) a BS or BA. Of course, there are the exceptions.. but you would know now if you were the exception.
I believe that most people that choose not to complete their schooling early on, never complete it later in life.. not because they are making boat-loads of cash, but because they can't "afford" to go back to school.. debt, family, etc.
I know that when I was in school, I was envious of other friends that had cars, "good" jobs, freedom from the classroom. I was freakin' poor when I went to school.. no car, little cash, living in squalor. Today, my old friends are still working very hard to make ends meet, and my "earnings curve" quickly caught up and has far surpassed most of theirs. I believe that the main reason is that my degree opened up a lot more higher-paying opportunities.
One exception is a friend who's dad passed his bread company off to him. He does have a degree, but never used it. He makes far more than me, but again, that's the exception more than the rule.
Sometimes, you just gotta take a deep breath, dig in, get it done, and move on. What do you have to loose? A couple more years of long days and nights, or a lifetime regretting your decision to complete your degree?
There is the option of getting it over with quicker, by taking out student loans and going to school full time.
Hope I wasn't too preachy!
A:
A good friend of mine who I used to work with never went to college. He started programming in high school, and at 18, got a full-time job doing it. By the age of 24, he was a senior programmer in charge of a team, and now, at 26 years old, he is the VP of software engineering of a mid-sized industry leading marketing company, with a staff of about 25-30 programmers, and making 6 figures. Remember, this is a guy with a high school diploma and only 8 years of experience. But he's incredibly motivated, supremely intelligent, and good at his job.
Another good friend of mine has a GED, but makes about 75k a year working as a network administrator for a publicly traded REIT.
I've learned that in reality, a piece of paper saying you can do something is insignificant as compared to your actual ability to do it.
A:
Originally Posted by Dietrich
just remember, the richest people in the world all dropped out of college.
And... the poorest people in the world never went to college.. and there's WAY more of them!!
A:
I dropped out of college with 3 classes left to graduate. that was 19 years ago. my business that I started took off, and thankfully i dont need the degree(to work for myself). if i didnt work for myself, the job market would suck w/o the degree.
stay in school, get the degree, i wish i finished, just incase i ever need it to fall back on. One thing I will say, is that its great motivation to keep myself working hard at what i do. I think that my situation is an exception(maybe not here) to the rule for sucess, as a degree opens allot of doors for you.
being an entreprenuer does have allot of benefits though, and is more satisfying than anything I can think of.
"the fishguy"
A:
Originally Posted by LBC111
And... the poorest people in the world never went to college.. and there's WAY more of them!!
well... obviously you don't get the real message from the statement. and that's okay.
A:
Originally Posted by BoostedAWD
I'm SOOOO sick of working till 8 or 9 EVERY night and can't wait till i can get a normal 8-5 schedule. What do you guys think??
First, I think you're naive if you think that an 8-5 schedule is going to allow you to be as successful and prosperous as you appear to want to be. If you're so sick of working until 8 or 9 every night, I think you should think hard about what you want to do or are capable of doing.
At 20 I didn't like school either. I thought I was wasting my time, couldn't make the connection as to why this was important.
Successful people don't work 8 to 5, they work all the time. They are always thinking, planning, learning, trying, failing, experimenting, and wondering WTF!!
Personally, I went the traditional route: college, work, graduate school, work, nice car, house, wife, great vacations, family (thanks to the vacations!!), bigger house, practical car/truck, dog, hamster, John Deere tractor and finally the Elise!! Worked for me, not saying it will work for you.
All I do know is that if you don't want to make an effort, put in the time, suffer through the questionable times and look for an easy way out, you're toast.
I wish you only the best, and I'm sure my answer is only one of many you will hear, but I thank you for reminding me of what is was like to be 20. Good Luck!
Wayne
A:
Stay in school. Easier to get it done now then have to try and go back later if you decide you need to.
People always throw out the 'richest people never went to college' argument, but then again those people are one in million if not a billion.
Secondly, times have changed for the most part. True people your parents age might have gotten by without a degree, but most places now where you would want to work wont even look at you nowadays if you dont have one.
Going to college is a great opportunity a lot of people dont ever get, and as cliche as it sounds, education is one of the few things that someone cant take away from you.
If you have the opportunity, go.
A:
Originally Posted by Ginetta
People always throw out the 'richest people never went to college' argument, but then again those people are one in million if not a billion.
I am not stating that as an argument to tell the guy to get out of school.
A:
If you're considering a technical career at all, you have to stay in school.
I see lots of resumes - when I see one that only has an AA on it, it sets off warning flags. There is nothing necessarily wrong with it, it's just an indicator that the candidate may not have taken things as seriously as others. The odds of the AA person being as good as the BA or MS person are low (but not zero).
Engineers are frequently put in positions of responsibility where mistakes cost millions of dollars, so (good) companies are going to ratchet up the bar as far as they can take it.
A:
Find something you love to do and the money will follow.
A:
Originally Posted by waydui
First, I think you're naive if you think that an 8-5 schedule is going to allow you to be as successful and prosperous as you appear to want to be. If you're so sick of working until 8 or 9 every night, I think you should think hard about what you want to do or are capable of doing.
At 20 I didn't like school either. I thought I was wasting my time, couldn't make the connection as to why this was important.
Successful people don't work 8 to 5, they work all the time. They are always thinking, planning, learning, trying, failing, experimenting, and wondering WTF!!
Personally, I went the traditional route: college, work, graduate school, work, nice car, house, wife, great vacations, family (thanks to the vacations!!), bigger house, practical car/truck, dog, hamster, John Deere tractor and finally the Elise!! Worked for me, not saying it will work for you.
All I do know is that if you don't want to make an effort, put in the time, suffer through the questionable times and look for an easy way out, you're toast.
I wish you only the best, and I'm sure my answer is only one of many you will hear, but I thank you for reminding me of what is was like to be 20. Good Luck!
Wayne
DAMN.. THAT WAS WELL SAID!!
A:
I've never thought that an Associates degree gets you anything that a little hard work and a decent head on your shoulders won't, and in some cases is a hindrance. Any job that accepts an Associates will usually also take a solid individual without one, and a good self-starter is usually more interesting.
In my experience you have three options to live at a level you're talking about: Get a Bachelor's degree and work through the system, Start your own business, or get a good job in construction or similar (they pay a lot more than you'd think).
Myself, I had a full-ride all set up at two top-notch colleges but decided to start a business with a co-worker instead. That was ten years ago and I've since left that company and now run two others. The money and freedom is great, but it is a lot of work and can be stressful when business is slow. However it's easily the only life for me and I've never regretted taking this path.
Originally Posted by fishguyAZ
if i didnt work for myself, the job market would suck w/o the degree... its great motivation to keep myself working hard at what i do.
Yep. Same thing here. There is no going back to a corporate gig, not that you could handle it anyways after being on your own. So, you just have to keep making things work.
Originally Posted by transio
I've learned that in reality, a piece of paper saying you can do something is insignificant as compared to your actual ability to do it.
So true, though the lack of a degree basically precludes you from getting most corporate type jobs through the typical resume submittal process - if that's what you're looking for.
Originally Posted by BoostedAWD
I'm SOOOO sick of working till 8 or 9 EVERY night and can't wait till i can get a normal 8-5 schedule.
Well, then you better stay in school and plan to get the full Bachelor's degree. How does the joke go? "I run my own business so I work half-days - 12 hours every day." That's absolutely true.
Life is a journey comprised of the twists and turns you take between the opportunities that arise and that you have the foresight to notice. Keep your eyes open and you'll be amazed where it takes you.
A:
Why waste 4 years at school, a year traveling and a year figuring out what you want to do when you can get 6 years of real life work experience instead? Sure you might have a great time and get "book smart" but it's real experience that counts.
I left school when I was 16 and now have 10 years experience (plus an Elise )under my belt where as all my friends are just getting started in their careers.
Luke
A:
I'm not sure you've given enough information for anyone to make a 'specific' recommendation. You say that you are studying "management" and hate school. You also say that you would be happier working 40 hours/week, but you don't tell us what it is you are doing for work.
Maybe you need to think about (or see a vocational counselor) what it is you want to do when you "grow up" (note, however, that most of us on the board haven't grown up [at least according to a recent poll]). As other have noted, if you have a passion for something, and really want to succeed, 40 hours/week usually doesn't do it, at least for say the first 10 years or so of a career.
That said, an AA in management probably isn't the most 'marketable' degree (if you will pardon the pun), when there are lots of BA/BS folks around, not to mention the MBA crowd. Based on the information you've provided, I would recommend you consider the direction your education is taking (perhaps by completing an interest inventory with a vocational counselor), and see if you can get your eductional program and your interests better aligned. [Of course, if your primary interest in work is to make money, that is a different story altogether]