A&Q about Lotus
Q:
Originally posted by tonyyoshi
You're actually better of mounting a small fan at you feet and plugging it into the cigar lighter. Or, find out where you can get dry ice.... Seriously though, there is a way to upgrade the aircon to a very good standard suitable even for Bangkok. If you're interested, the parts and instructions can be shipped to the US, I think. It's fairly expensive to do but well worth it if you live in a hot humid climate like I do.
The car I test drove had nice very cold AC. Capacity doesn't seem to be the problem, it seems that the system simply stops working.
A:
It is extremely effective at cooling until the icing up(?) issue starts.
Chrs
A:
It does not stop working. It just can't cope with the heat soak. The coolant gets so hot you'll eventually stop getting cold air. Hence the reason for fitting a 2nd condensor under the car with 2 more fans. This gives an extra amount of cooling. Don't forget, the main condensor is fitted to the radiator. It's always going to get hotter and hotter until it can no longer do it's job. Should be fine if you're moving at a constant rate with a not too hot air temp. But in traffic, you're screwed. Trust me when I say this is ONLY an issue in hot climates.
A:
Oh, and another vitally important note about the aircon. The electrical port for the aircon faces down, and after you wash the car, a little pool of water will be in contact with the aircon electricals. Eventually the sealant will start to leak and your aircon will pop. Always always drive the car immediately after washing it. And get a waterproof car cover if you leave yours exposed to the elements.
A:
Tony,
I'm not sure the heat soak thing is what we're experiencing, if that were the case, why would it blow really cold air (high volume) and then after 20 or so minutes have decreased cold and volume. Turn it off and back on and it's fine until it does it again. I would think the heat soak issue would be more/less continuous once it happened and wouldnt be affected by turning off/on the a/c.
Chris
A:
When you turn the aircon off, you're not loading up the coolant anymore which means it cools down. The air is flowing thru the condensor so cools it. When you switch it back on 20 mins later, the coolant has cooled down so the aircon works again. When you look at the internals of the aircon setup, there's nothing there that can freeze. As I said, I run a modified version which is even colder and it never freezes.
A:
Toni,
that's just it, I can switch it off and then back on one minute later and the a/c works as normally, but reoccurs in 20 minutes or so. I could understand if you had to turn it off for several minutes and then working fine, it's the on/off thing that's throwing me.
I was under the impression that the A/c on the new cars US and 111R was substantially changed to alleviate the problems you mentioned Toni, but I may have misunderstood when I was give the explanation at LA.
When it's working it is more than adequate to cool the car in 95 heat. Now if they can just sort this so it works that way ALL the time.
Chris
A:
I have seen a couple of suggestions about the drop off in AC capacity. I don't have my Elise yet, so am only guessing.
My '81 DeLorean had that problem for several years. AC was fine for a while, then air flow and cooling dropped off dramatically. When I switched to vent, air flow would gradually increase. When the air started to warm up, I could switch back to AC and it would be fine for a while. I am sure it was caused by ice building up on the evaporator (cooling) coil. Running my AC on Max recycled the inside air rather than bringing in fresh air. Max would reduce how often I would have to switch to vent due to less new humidity to remove.
When I finally mentioned it to my mechanic, he said there is a pressure switch in the compressor to control pressure so that the evaporator coil would not get cold enough to freeze. He ended up having to replace my 18 year old switch, but it works fine now.
I am suprised that so many would have that problem, but Lotus should fix it.
A:
Did'nt realize the system was different for the US cars. On my car, full throttle switches off the compressor for obvious reasons. Not sure if it comes back on again, never checked.
Could that be the problem? Are you using full throttle with the aircon on?
A:
Toni,
I drove like an old woman, so I've never hit full throttle, think I've gone to 7500 rpms.
I hope to talk to the Lotus UK guys at LOG this week, see if they have any solutions or theories.
Chris
A:
Hmmm, has anyone got hold of the service manual for the Toyota Elise yet? I bet if you look at the schematic of the aircon you'll be able to fogure out the problem.
A:
Here's a thought. What if the battery is being drained and the alternator can not keep up. I found it only happened when I was running the AC on high, and both aux fans were running. If the Aux fans were not on (high road speed) then it worked just fine. Just a thought.
A:
Nope. I was cruising at 80 in 6th gear (so high road speed and high engine speed) and the AC cut out. I have noticed, however, that when tooling around at low speed and low engine speed at night, I see the headlights dim a bit.
A:
I had heard the battery is easily depleted. Check the temp guages, the first fan comes on at 190 and the second at 200. Maybe you were still running both. I did notice my Elise ran cooler at high speeds by a few degrees. There is definitely an air flow limitation contributing.
A:
That's pretty scary that the car isn't self sustaining? In theory, shouldn't the car be able to function with battery disconnected once running?? Does anyone know if the alternator is standard for that engine (meaning it's used on the Yotas)?
I have friends who run tiny dry cell batteries (for weight savings) on their E36M3s and have no issues. Well, the only issue is not an authoritative fire up and when the weather gets cold, you better throw in the stock battery
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Chris-I drove the sh*t out of mine, and the A/C didn't come back and work adequately for over an hour. I tested it every 15 minutes for 80 minutes or so before giving up completely. It worked fine the next time in, hours later. I do not see other battery-related issues, so I assume it froze up or something.
A:
The issue from Lotus Tech session at LOG, the manufacturers of the unit , bergstrom, determined at some point in manufacturing the units that regulator, solenoid or something was not actuating properly, resulting in the unit icing up. (I'm paraphrasing here) any rate, bergstrom changed it at some point in the manufacturing process and Lotus is in the process of determining which car vin range is affected, in other words, certainly later built cars shouldn't have this issue, bulletin will be released in the near future.
I found on my long drive to LOG a/c works most effectively (until the system is fixed under warranty) if the temp setting is LESS than coldest setting and fan on about two or three. I found this kept the cabin comfortable. Again, this has been addressed and will be fixed at the point they determine what range cars are affected.
Chris
A:
Good to hear. I've noticed this in mine, too.
A:
Just to clarify a bit on Chris' post...
There is a sensor that measures the temp of the evaporator core. In the Elise installation Bergstrom positioned the sensor such that it's does not properly pickup the core's temp and allows the compressor to continue to operate despite the core freezing up.
The sensor should cycle the compressor to prevent the core from freezing.
Thus you can "manually" cycle the conpressor until your dealer can get the instructions from LCU. Chris is correct, but let me elaborate a bit per Dave Simkin - best is to set the temp a couple clicks warm of "full cold". Then when you sense the air flow deminishing & warming, turn off the A/C, leaving the fan on. You'll soon get some cool air as the core defrosts. Then as the core gets fully defrosted the air flow will return and begin to warm. You can then turn the A/C back on. Repeat as needed about every 10 min.
Kiyoshi
A:
Sounds like I need to hire a mechanic to ride around with me full time, just to play with the AC settings while I drive!