A&Q about Lotus
Q:
I'm about to have my dealer install a set of Ohlins double adjustable coilovers in my car next week. My plan is for them to install the coilovers and do only a rough alignment afterwards. I then plan on installing the Sector111 RTDbrace afterwards and take it to a local alignment race shop that can align and corner balance the car. I have a few questions that I hope the wisdom of this group can answer.
1) any ideas on install time? My dealer said 5 hours with only a rough alignment. Does this sound about right?
2) What is a good amount to lower the car by? My car is currently stock suspension (non-LSS), and from a rpad clearance point of view, it's much better than my Boxster. I want to lower it some to help with center of gravity, but I don't want it too low. Any suggestions? 1/4" lower than stock? What is the normal LSS ride height?
3) my dealer has installed these before, and claims to know where to put the remote reservoirs. I don't recall where he said the rears would go, but the front reservoirs are mounted under the wheel arches. He said you could adjust it with the wheel on. Is this setup good, or should the reservoirs be somewhere more protected from road dirt and water?
4) regarding the final alignment, I've maxed the negative camber in the front by removing all shims, but what about rear camber? The rear stock shims are still installed. What about front and rear toe or any other settings I should be having them look at?
Many thanks!
-RWarden
A:
1 - my installer took all of 90 minutes to put mine in and get a rough alignment done.
2 - during the cornerweight-ing and alignment, i had them even out the amount it was lowered. they gave me the chance to take a look (climbing out of the car...) and showed me what the ohlins did straight out of the box.
3 - if i'm not mistaken, we had to ignore the install instructions that came with the ohlins for the rear. we put it where most everyone else have put it,... similar location to the front. and i have access to them with the car just sitting on her wheels.
4 - this is preference,... all i can say is just don't put any toe out on the front. i had my reasons for asking for it in the beginning, but boy did i need to get them changed quick.
A:
Five hours to swap shock/spring units seems like a long time. I pulled the front spring/shock units off mine in less than 30 minutes. Setting the castor is another issue. Contrary to the previous post I have .03 degrees of toe out in each of the front wheels with .22 degrees toe in for each of the rears. No problem with the toe out in the front for me. It under-steers a lot less in tighter turns. Hunter makes a nice alignment rack that uses optical sensors instead of strings. Very reproducible, I had mine on and off the rack 3 times the same day with consistant readings. Be sure to load at least some weight in the seats it affects the readings a lot.
For me the handling is nearly neutral. It is easy to steer with the throttle. Of course the overall balance will depend on shock characteristics, spring rates and camber settings. If memory serves me correctly the LSS on my car is 10 mm lower than the base suspension. Enjoy .
A:
make sure you can have easy access to adjust the settings with the wheels on. you will want to dial them in for them trackdays, and easy = it gets done, difficult = not usually done as good as it could have, had it had been easy access.
A:
I installed my Nitrons and RTDbrace myself and did a full string alignment afterwards. I did my Nitrons a while back and that took me right about an hour. These were single adjustable, so you should add a little extra time for the remote reservoir in your case.
A week or so ago I did my RTDbrace and string alignment. The RTDbrace took me about an hour. On the toelinks, I just took center point measurements from fitting to fitting and reassembled the new assembly using these measurements (basically a rough alignment). I was surprised how close and even side to side I was able to get to just doing this.
After the RTDbrace install, it took me about another hour for the string alignment. I can do the alignment more quickly, but am really anal about the adjustments on the Elise and making sure I get them precise. Very small deviations can make a noticeable difference with the Elise. I also took camber measurements on all four corners and calculated them out during this alignment process.
I didn't take height measurements before I started, but compared to a friend's Elise that has the track pack at its default height, I am about 1/2" lower in the rear and 3/4" lower in the front.
The car handles incredibly well on the street and the track.
One final note about the RTDbrace, it is a great piece that is very well made and assembled to great tolerances. I was a little worried when I ordered it because the brace itself made no provision for adjusting its length, but it fit incredibly well. The Aurora rod ends are also of great quality and look like they will prove to last quite a while. When installing the whole assembly, what with the additional transmission pickup points and the inner endlink bolts now being placed into a double shear arrangement, you can just tell how supportive it will be.
A:
If you are going to mount the reservoirs to the lower A-arms 5 hours is about 3 hours too long. I mounted my rear Nitron reservoirs in the trunk and this took a bit of time.
BTW, you don't really need to align the car if you are just putting on shocks.
A:
Originally Posted by MyElise
BTW, you don't really need to align the car if you are just putting on shocks.
Yeah, I didn't align mine when I installed my Nitrons, but lowering the car does change the geometry slightly. He is also installing the RTDbrace which really does require an alignment afterwards.
EDIT: I see why you were telling him this! I reread his post and see where the shop is going to do a rough alignment after installing the Olhins. I agree, this is totally unnecessary. Just do the normal alignment after installing the RTDbrace.
A:
For the Cup, Lotus recommended going with a 120mm (front and rear) height for the Ohlin setup with driver ballast of approximately 75kg. For street cars, they say that all their alignment and height specs assume that you have ballast equal to 2x75kg.
FWIW, here are my alignment/height settings --with ME in the car:
Front ride height ~ 117mm
Front camber -- best we could get was -.9 left front (all shims plus ABS bracket removed) and -1.0 degrees right front (all shims removed).
Front toe -- toe-out ~.06 degrees per side
Rear ride height ~ 123mm
Rear camber -- 2.4 degrees negative per side
Rear toe -- toe-in ~.21 degrees per side
Good luck!
A:
Originally Posted by Jack
For the Cup, Lotus recommended going with a 120mm (front and rear) height for the Ohlin setup with driver ballast of approximately 75kg. For street cars, they say that all their alignment and height specs assume that you have ballast equal to 2x75kg.
FWIW, here are my alignment/height settings --with ME in the car:
Front ride height ~ 117mm
Front camber -- best we could get was -.9 left front (all shims plus ABS bracket removed) and -1.0 degrees right front (all shims removed).
Front toe -- toe-out ~.06 degrees per side
Rear ride height ~ 123mm
Rear camber -- 2.4 degrees negative per side
Rear toe -- toe-in ~.21 degrees per side
Good luck!
How is ride height measured? I heard versions of using the frame and the fiberglass shell inside the wheel opening.
A:
Originally Posted by bli8
How is ride height measured? I heard versions of using the frame and the fiberglass shell inside the wheel opening.
I've been told that the correct measuring method utilizes the front and rear frame rail points -- at least that's what Lotus is using when they refer to their recommended heights of 130 or 120 mm.
A:
Originally Posted by Jack
I've been told that the correct measuring method utilizes the front and rear frame rail points -- at least that's what Lotus is using when they refer to their recommended heights of 130 or 120 mm.
Yep, those are the locations I use too. I have marked them in red on the chassis diagram and picture below. My current settings:
Front:
Ride Height: 120 mm (tires cold, no ballast/driver and 1/4 tank of gas)
Camber: -1.2 degrees each side (all shims and abs bracket removed)
Toe: Zero
Tire Pressure: 24 psi cold (stock size A048)
Rear:
Ride Height: 127 mm (tires cold, no ballast/driver and less than 1/4 tank of gas)
Camber: -2.2 degrees each side (2 shims removed per side)
Toe: 0.20 degrees toe-in each side
Tire Pressure: 25 psi cold (stock size A048)
A:
Originally Posted by Baysailor
Yep, those are the locations I use too. I have marked them in red on the chassis diagram and picture below. My current settings:
Front:
Ride Height: 120 mm (tires cold, no ballast/driver and 1/4 tank of gas)
Camber: -1.2 degrees each side (all shims and abs bracket removed)
Toe: Zero
Tire Pressure: 24 psi cold (stock size A048)
Rear:
Ride Height: 127 mm (tires cold, no ballast/driver and less than 1/4 tank of gas)
Camber: -2.2 degrees each side (2 shims removed per side)
Toe: 0.20 degrees toe-in each side
Tire Pressure: 25 psi cold (stock size A048)
Just for giggles, get into the driver's seat when your car is on the alignment rack next time -- you may be shocked at what happens to your negative camber, especially up front.
A:
This is why I love this forum. Excellent advice, timely delivery.
Can't wait to try out the new suspension.
-RWarden
A:
FWIW, I can't get rid of the higher inside temps on the rears. Going to try removing some camber there, 1 or 2 additional shims.
A:
Originally Posted by MyElise
FWIW, I can't get rid of the higher inside temps on the rears. Going to try removing some camber there, 1 or 2 additional shims.
How much camber and what tire pressure are you running in the rear? I just recently pulled 2 shims per side on the rear when I installed my RTDbrace, so I haven't spent any time evaluating the tire temps. I kept going back and forth on whether to pull one or two (I was about -1.6 degrees before and -2.2 degrees after).
A:
Stock camber, lowered about 17mm in the rear. 29psi hot on Hoosier R3S05's.
Looks like 1 or 2 shims have to be added.
BTW, tire temps flat across the front with all shims removed, 26 psi hot, R3S04's.
A:
OK, one more question. I'm looking for advice on track setting for the Ohlin double adjustable coilovers from Sector111 (LOV1F12 thru 4F12) I just installed. The little yellow insert says:
Street use (LOV 1F12-4F12)
front rebound 18 clicks
front compression 12 clicks
rear rebound 15 clicks
rear compression 10 clicks
Race Track (LOV 1F11-4F11)
rebound 12 clicks
compression 1 clicks
So the p/n difference between race and street makes me thing I have the street ohlins installed, even though Sector111 doesn't carry those and lists F12 as the track coilover. Or it could be something lost in the translation.
Also, as an aside, I want to be clear on just how to adjust these. The knobs are identified as + for clockwise (CW) and - for CCW. So as an example, the track setup for the above rebound recommendation should be to turn the rebound knob all the way CCW, then 12 clicks + (CW). Correct?
Sector111's suspension comparision sheet:
recommends a setting of "-18 compression" and "-22 rebound". So this would be turn the knob all the way CW, then - (CCW) 18 clicks (22 for rebound). I just don't want to reverse the settings accidently! It's odd than in one place they are expressed in positive clicks, the other negative clicks. thanks for any help
A:
Shock settings should be represented as clicks away from full hard. On the Nitrons full hard is full clockwise for rebound and compression. The setting of 1 for compression for the track would go along with this. Also make sure you know which adjustment is for compression and rebound. On the Nitrons the setting on the shock is rebound. Don't know about the Ohlins.
A:
Originally Posted by MyElise
Shock settings should be represented as clicks away from full hard. On the Nitrons full hard is full clockwise for rebound and compression. The setting of 1 for compression for the track would go along with this. Also make sure you know which adjustment is for compression and rebound. On the Nitrons the setting on the shock is rebound. Don't know about the Ohlins.
Ohlins are the same - compression is on the external reservoir, while rebound is on at the bottom of the shock itself. So you are saying that I should have the knobs full hard (full +, or full Clock wise), then count back CCW the number of clicks indicated. This makes sense relative to the Sector111 recommendation sheet as it used negative numbers. The Ohlin sheet included in the user manual just says "clicks" with no positive or negative, so I was assuming these were positive (clicks away from the softest settings). Thanks for the help.
-RWarden
A:
Yep, that'll work.
Just to make it fun the Koni's on my Mini are the opposite, in that full clockwise is full soft. Had a bunch of fun after setting the car up the fronts for the track after not having done it for a year and getting it backwards. It understeered just a bit.