A&Q about Lotus
Q:
Originally Posted by TimMullen
Actually though, it's true. Areas that have stricter gun controls tend to have higher rates of violent crimes. Areas where guns are more accepted by the general population (i.e. lots of hunters) and have a larger number of people with concealed carry permits, tend to have much lower crime rates...
It's the Archie Bunker theorem, give everyone guns so the crooks are out numbered.
I live in a really low crime area and there are a ton of hunters around. I'm not sure I can say the two correlate, but...
A:
Originally Posted by joe13531
Wow...your dad is really cool for murdering two guys trying to steal a friggin car - a stupid machine. I would find other things to brag about, buddy boy. Sorry, but your gross, flippant machismo comment about this really boils my blood. Be part of the solution, my child, not the problem.
An eye for a life simply does not cut it IMHO. And... too many retards have guns, plain and simple. Your dad proves that.
So you are calling his dad a retard? Not cool; he is not here to defend himself, but you knew that; makes it easy doesn't it? I would say it is [insert descriptive word of choice, possibly one beginning with an r and ending with a d] such as yourself who allow people to get away with stealing and damaging property that are the problem. It is not just a stupid machine. It is something that you have to work for, and make sacrifices for in order to acquire the item. By having someone take this away, or damaging it, it is just like taking a part of your life. It is people like you who I hold directly responsible for crimes that take place in our society; by letting people get away with crimes or thinking it is not a big deal; you are just as bad as the guy keying the car or stealing it.
I apologize in advance moderators if the above is name calling or a personal attack; I just do not like him calling flygutskt's father a retard. It is something that is easy to say in the heat of the moment, and I'm sure I could have done the same.
Joe, I know you are not a retard, and it would be immature for me to call you that anyway; but I have a serious problem with people defending thieves. Maybe killing them is going overboard (I'm not sure based on the circumstances, I would need all the facts), but I consider someone stealing my car the same as taking a LARGE part of my life. I work hard every day for my Elise, no one should touch it or steal it. A material object or money can represent blood, sweat, and tears!
A:
Stealing a car DOES NOT justify ANYONE to shoot anyone. Hitting someone with a baseball bat DOES NOT justify killing TWO people. Was their a warning shot? Was the security guard being beaten to death (repeated head strikes) or just hit? The secutity guard is still alive, right? Anti gun? Nah. I've owned plenty over the years (handguns and rifles) and am quite proficient actually in firearms. I said... too many retarded people own guns. Am I crazy for thinking its NOT OK to murder someone who is committing a non-life threatening TO YOU crime? Yes, they hit that guy with a bat. How does that justify the bystander (dad) shooting one guy in the head and killing the other by SHOOTING HIM IN THE BACK? Is this really "self defense" and "protecting others"??? Am I crazy?????????????
I just hate the kill 'em all, gung ho macho crap from some people who watch way too many action movies. I have faced the gun before and it isn't pretty. Most of you internet, arm chair "tough guys" would crumble to pieces in a real life or death situation. Most of you WOULD NOT be so bold on the street, or in armed combat. Belive it. I admit I was wrong for mud slinging about the dad. But cmon people... The friggin guy was BRAGGING about how his father murdered two people for trying to rip off his car. That sort of behavior makes me sick to the stomach. It's a societal issue and it makes my outlook on humanity turn very dark. Let the cops sort that out. That's what we...uh...I mean...they get paid for.
Having the death of another human being on your hands is not a positive experiece whether it's justified or not. Sorry again, moderators, but Flyguy's comments were aweful at best. Again... does ANYONE see my point???? Wow. Tim, their is an astronomical difference between "intent" and actual COMMITTING MURDER. Car theives suck, but the punishment MUST fit the crime, as is laid out in our constitution. Barbarianism is very much alive today among "moral, law abiding citizens". Thank you. +1 for me.
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I had a similar instance happen to me. I was sitting in my office and was watching a guy eyeball my car on the street not more than 50 feet away when I noticed the idiot try the door. I went out and said "nice car, is it yours?" To which he replied "no it's not". I then said, "then what the f**k are you doing trying to open the door?"
He cowered and sheepishly walked away. I tossed in a few parting shots like "Idiot!", etc...
SORRY, I'm not a pacifist! I think that someone that steals a car deserves to be shot. I would hope that they would not die from their wounds but if they do then so be it. A nice round through the hand or kneecap sounds appropriate to me.
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I can marginally support shooting the guy with the baseball bat if he was actually attacking the other guy. I agree, shooting a guy in the back is over the line and cannot be called self defense in my book.
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Let’s see if I can save this thread. I don’t want to post pics of the guy because to a certain extent I believe in karma. I love the car but it’s a car, it’s not like he caused me irreparable harm. He’s a dick, I’m sure he’ll get what’s coming to him.
The name slinging can be done in private messages if you must. Doing it for everyone else to see isn’t necessary and seems like.
I’m pro-gun but don’t advocate shooting someone or using lethal force in all but the most extreme circumstances. The gun debate and its intricacies are probably worthy of a separate thread.
Regardless of your personal beliefs on the matter it does appear that what most states consider “excessive force” can be used to protect personal property in some states (Florida for instance, and to some extent Texas). I can’t shoot someone in Minnesota for allegedly trying to steal or break into my car, and I’m fine with that.
Punishment fitting the crime debate can be had elsewhere please. I believe it’s barely applicable in the United States any longer but it’s worthy of it’s own thread too.
Now, back to inappropriate touching of cars. Anyone else have any stories they’d like to share? I haven’t had any issues with people touching my car this year (yet).
I had one mostly pathetic attempt at car jacking but the guy backed off when I showed how he didn’t intimidate me in the least. And that was in my beat-to-hell 97 Honda Civic. I’m not sure if he was trying to roll me for cash/cards or my car, I didn’t play the game.
A:
Originally Posted by joe13531
Again... does ANYONE see my point????
I see your point, but I don't think it is a great one. I personally think adult people who attempt to jack a car should be shot. In the grand scheme of things, I value long term human societal quality higher than I value a few short term lives.
Sure, if it was me or my friends/family, I would scream bloody murder if they got shot. But again, in the grand scheme of things, a few hundred thousand criminal deaths might be better for the 4 billion decent people left on the earth.
From my sweeping death sentence policy, I would exclude:
1. The theft of food/water if the theif has been unable to legally procure same for himself/children in the previous 48 hours.
2. The theft of shelter usage when the weather is likely to be harmful to the ones health and the theif is unable to legally procure shelter for himself/children.
3. Crimes that are non harmful to others or the property of others, like sitting on your own couch in your own house with the shades drawn and getting high. I'm against it, but hey if you aren't hurting me or my property, then smoke your guts out. As soon as you break-n-enter my house in support of your habit, then off to the target range you go.
xtn
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Originally Posted by tandemracer
If more people had guns fewer cretins would try to steal cars.
Love that reasoning.. More guns = less crime.
A:
Originally Posted by xtn
I see your point, but I don't think it is a great one. I personally think adult people who attempt to jack a car should be shot.
xtn
All I can say is....wow. I think I am done with this thread. Now back to keeping people from breathing on my car.
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Originally Posted by LBC111
Love that reasoning.. More guns = less crime.
No. The use of more guns = fewer criminals.
Obsidian, how about posting the pics with a little black bar over the guy's eyes? You know, like they do on t.v. C'mon, you created this giant thread. It's unfair not to post pics.
A:
Originally Posted by LBC111
Love that reasoning.. More guns = less crime.
It's counterintuitive to some, but it's "true" (your mileage may vary on truth ). Spending half my time in Atlanta, one invariable sees the references to Kennesaw (check out wikipedia's entry). They created a law in the 80's that made it mandatory for every head of a household to own a gun, excepting convicted felons and the like. They claim a dramatic drop in the crime rate.
Of course, such things are always hard to prove rigorously, and will have detractors. However, I think it's true, and my logic / though-experiment goes something like this:
How likely would you be to commit crimes if there was a law in place that not only condoned but required people to own and learn how to use and maintain a firearm? What if everyone went around with a gun visibly strapped on themselves? Would you commit a serious crime?
Now, 10 years ago, I wasn't so comfortable with the idea, just because I know how easy it is to have a weapon used against you if you hesitate or are otherwise unwilling to commit in the moment of truth. But with certain technological advents making it possible to create a firearm that only obeys the trigger command if it's keyed owner uses it, I like it more and more.
I've tought every woman I've ever cared for how to use a gun, and I've even had cause for one of them to thank me for it; she was alone in her apartment one night when something woke her up... long story short, she shot an intruder in the leg and kept him pinned down until police could arrive. They found a hunting knife on the guy and a pair of handcuffs. God only knows what would've happened if she hadn't had the gun and kept it bedside.
Guns are the great equalizer. Everyone should have one. I've never had to use one myself, and pray that I never will. But I'd rather have one all my life and never use it then end up needing one just once in my life and not having it. I think if criminals knew that most people were armed and willing to defend themselves, they'd get out of the personal crimes (carjacking, mugging, etc) and get into the more esoteric crimes... identity theft, pyramid scemes and large corporate CEO work
A:
Originally Posted by joe13531
Was the security guard being beaten to death (repeated head strikes) or just hit? The secutity guard is still alive, right?
Just a hypothetical, but suppose I'm on the way back from the range with my 45 and I come upon you being beaten by someone with a bat. How many times would you like me to allow them to strike you before going for a center of mass shot? I'm a much better than average marksman, but I think that shooting in the hand or leg stuff is just for TV.
If they are hitting you in the body, should I just wait until I see them switch to a head strike? It might be difficult for me to judge how many blows would be required to cause your permanent disability or death, so I'll accept any advice you might offer in this regard.
Would you trade being crippled, perhaps brain damaged for the life of a bat-wielding car thief? Please let me know, because I wouldn't wish to go against your wishes by saving you.
To everyone else here, I can assure you that I would without hesitation put down anyone I saw swinging a bat at you. That's assuming I was armed with something other than harsh language.
Best regards to all,
Leo
A:
1) Shooting someone in the back is totally justifiable if they are in between the person they are beating with a baseball bat and you.
2) More guns = less crime. Absolutly correct. Would you expect someone to try to rob a convience store if they knew the cashier and every customer had a gun? Would someone break into your house at night if they knew you slept with a gun next to your bed?
3) Personal attacks are not permitted, learn the rules.
4) I love the second ammendment.
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Originally Posted by FirstClass
I love the second ammendment.
I love the first 10.
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Originally Posted by DeathWish
Just a hypothetical, but suppose I'm on the way back from the range with my 45 and I come upon you being beaten by someone with a bat. How many times would you like me to allow them to strike you before going for a center of mass shot?
Thanks! I almost peed my pants laughing!
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Originally Posted by LW Elise
I suggest that anyone who is thinking in terms of using a gun some day to defend themselves train well enough to be able to place a four inch group at 21 feet. If you can, then you could shoot someone in the arm or leg easily enough.
I think you have been influenced my Hollywood a little too much. I really do not think this is realistic. If you shoot at someone, you better be ready to kill them and you aim for the center of mass. Hitting them in the arm or leg usually only works in the movies. Keep in mind that in the heat of the moment you will be on adrenaline and fear and anger and ........ Point is, it is a little different than shooting at a target under controlled conditions.
But hey, maybe you are that good, I don't know; anything is possible. If you can, I would be impressed.
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You could have punched him in the face and/or beat the sh!t out of him and you would have gotten away with it. (Stick with your original story, you thought he was stealing it)
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Guns dont kill people. Chuck Norris kills people.
Lighten up. Just be glad that chuck didnt kill you last night in your sleep.
PS: I do believe in karma. Thats as much as ill say...
A:
Originally Posted by mrluky
PS: I do believe in karma. Thats as much as ill say...
I used to believe in karma too. But what about people born blind/deaf/disabled? How are they to believe in karma?
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Oooh.. I've got a better idea!
How 'bout, not only must EVERYONE carry a gun, but.. you have to HOLD it, with the trigger cocked at all times!
Then.. that would even make us even MORE safe. Yeah!
Oooh, and all doors and windows equipped with flame-throwers that will automatically fire at any unrecognized visitors.
Oh, oh.. then we can hide land mines on our properties!
Oh God, I'm gona pee in my pants at how safe I'm gonna feel.. YEE-HAW! Crack a beer, I'm gonna get drunk and shoot empties off my fence!
And then.. let's compare how the crime rate of gun-toting Podunk Mississippi has dramatically dropped compared to the non-gun-toting inner cities of say.. Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, etc.,