A&Q about Lotus
Q:
Originally Posted by cshama
Back on subject- I dont think any violence at all is warranted if you find someone sitting in your car without permission. I think it is more weird then anything else. All this talk of hurting or killing someone for sitting in or even stealing your car is just moronic.
Let me tell you, if you hurt someone doing that and you came to a court where I was a judge I would put you in jail for a significant amout of time. Thats what insurance and the police are for. ITS ONLY A CAR GUYS.......
Hmmm... good thing you weren't on that Dallas guy's jury. He pulled up at a light and some guy climbed in his car - net result was a dead passenger and no charges filed.
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If I found someone in my 15 year old MR2 I would be very upset. That takes a lot of nerve. It is like finding a stranger in your house. In your yard would be moving along the periphery of trespassing. My car is more than a car. It is my way of getting around. My livelyhood, and yes a little of my pride. If I found someone in my car, I would at least leave them with something to think about next time. But it wouldn't be violent, I would just be on that cell phone for pics and a 911 call.
Being a woman is a little different when it comes to intrusion. I have also had guys follow my car home. When that happens, I drive away from my house and straight to a fire or police station parking lot. That is a great deterent. I also always lock my car doors. I was at a light once, and there was this guy standing at the corner, close to my passenger door. When the light changed, he tried to open the passenger door. I will never forget the look on his face when he found it was locked. Thank God!
A:
you want people to stop freaking out about you taking up two spots? Well, i don't think you're reading between the lines. If people who can appreciate a car and have respect for it are freaking out about it, imagine the irritation of somebody who's willing to vandalize?... i think you should take peoples response here as an understatement of the likelihood of somebody who only likes big american cars and trucks and doesn't like it that you think your car is hot **** and needs two spots (regardless of your harmless desire to take two spots where it doesn't affect anyone).
If you're parked out at the end of the lot with no cars around, there's even less reason to do it becuase whom ever would park next to you to irk you isn't going to care if they're over a white line either.
It's your car, and you'll do what you want, but i would consider myself warned by "friendly" fire.
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Originally Posted by ewalberg
you want people to stop freaking out about you taking up two spots? Well, i don't think you're reading between the lines. If people who can appreciate a car and have respect for it are freaking out about it, imagine the irritation of somebody who's willing to vandalize?... i think you should take peoples response here as an understatement of the likelihood of somebody who only likes big american cars and trucks and doesn't like it that you think your car is hot **** and needs two spots (regardless of your harmless desire to take two spots where it doesn't affect anyone).
If you're parked out at the end of the lot with no cars around, there's even less reason to do it becuase whom ever would park next to you to irk you isn't going to care if they're over a white line either.
It's your car, and you'll do what you want, but i would consider myself warned by "friendly" fire.
Exactly! Obsidian, the guy who made the original point that parking in 2 spots is a bad idea is dead on. The reason someone parks in two spots is usually to protect their car from dings, correct? I think you now have a higher risk of damage to your car because you are pissing off people who are loosing out on a parking space and you just bring more attention to your car. And some of these people (not me) may just key your car one of these days because you took two spots; you just got the opposite result of what you were tring to avoid, only much worse. And if you are way in the back, then all the more reason not to take 2 spots if no one really parks back there. We are only trying to help you out here; I would seriously reconsider doing this in the future. One day, the wrong guy or gal will see your car, your parking position will piss them off, and your Elise will be keyed. It is a bad idea to do this, I would bet money on it.
Only trying to give you good advice, take it or leave it.
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This is the no grip on reality thread. I see like 50 people here who would just stand there and watch someone commit a crime with no reprocussion except harsh language.
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I got in someone else's car one time and almost drove it away. I had left my beat up '65 VW at a small independent shop for some transaxle work. When I went to pick it up, I was given my keys, I went out and jumped in what I thought was my car, turned the key and started it up. I soon noticed it wasn't my car because the cute dash labels -- das glimmerblinken, der ashendumpen, die drizzelflippen, etc. -- weren't there. M key worked in someone else's car -- what are the odds?
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The use of force provided by the law passed in October 2005 in Florida is very clear that it only allows immunity from criminal prosecution if it was deemed justifiable force by the police who investigated the matter.
It’s not so different from many other states.
If a thief is stealing your car you do not have carte blanche permission to shoot them since you are not under threat of death or bodily harm (not in Florida, not in Texas). The story of the man who shot illegal immigrants who were trying to steal a car should have been prosecuted under this law.
The people in this thread rallying around the gun issue are possibly basing their opinions off of someone’s tall tale or exaggeration (at best). If this scenario did happen it’s the fault of the police force in that area that the shooter wasn’t prosecuted.
The only loss of reality seems to be the desire to bring back the wild west. The car in question was my car. If I don’t want to shoulder the cost of litigation for two paint chips that may or may not have come from said incident then let it be. If you think you should be able to shoot someone for touching your car or sitting in it then I’m not going to stifle your opinion. But I have a feeling (or hope) that the judicial system would ... even in Florida.
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Originally Posted by nvrblu
I got in someone else's car one time and almost drove it away. I had left my beat up '65 VW at a small independent shop for some transaxle work. When I went to pick it up, I was given my keys, I went out and jumped in what I thought was my car, turned the key and started it up. I soon noticed it wasn't my car because the cute dash labels -- das glimmerblinken, der ashendumpen, die drizzelflippen, etc. -- weren't there. M key worked in someone else's car -- what are the odds?
People here would have shot you for less ... and felt good about it
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The question is what is a crime and what is not. Everything is circumstantial. This is the internet, which means the exact incident, when described by you, is interpreted 1000 different ways. If some 5 year old is sitting on your car, of course you wont shoot him. If someone makes a mistake, its easy to see intent most of the time. When someone is unpredictable and is doing something that is big, thats different. Any person on here knows these little social rules, but some people just love to squabble too much.
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Originally Posted by Parking
... taking up two spaces advice ...
The psychology of the individual who will key a car that is taking up two spots is likely going to key that car weather it’s in one spot, or three, or at the back of a parking lot.
Just owning a nice car is enough to raise the ire of several mouth-breathing-shoot-first-ask-questions-later-pickup-truck-driving-NRA-card-carrying-low-lifes. Those that have advised me to stop taking up two spots will possibly be those same people that are keying cars in the lots near you tomorrow. It’s an argument based on opinion and conjecture and hypothetical social behavior. It can’t be proven either way. While the advice may eventually, in some parking lot near me, prove to be sound it’s lost because of the way it’s been presented as somehow more factual than my current experiences.
Maybe the average person is different in New Mexico, Texas, or Florida than in Minnesota, and that’s why some of you seem so adamant about it. I have no idea what would cause someone to be so certain about that unless they themselves battle with the desire to key vehicles that are parked in two spaces.
The “taking up two spots” comment I made wasn’t even in direct relation to the specific incidents that I posted in the thread. It has nothing to do those incidents, or that parking lot. The desire to dole out advice (when I'm not asking for it) seems to take precedence.
I see new cars of all types parked in the back of parking lots, or in two spaces, Dodge Neons, Escalades, BMWs. It doesn't make me want to key them. It doesn't make me think that that person is taunting me with their self importance or showing off their hot ride. UNLESS they are parked at the front of the lot and taking up two spaces on purpose. Then I perceive it as arrogant and/or inconsiderate, but still wouldn't wish harm on the vehicle. I just reserve judgment for the individual who put the inanimate object in that position.
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Originally Posted by bmbjj
This is the no grip on reality thread. I see like 50 people here who would just stand there and watch someone commit a crime with no reprocussion except harsh language.
LOL I see a bigger issue with people here who think it is just to murder a person in the name of "self defense" for getting in their car. Talk about messed up priorities. I believe the reason is too much TV. MOST states will throw you in jail if you shoot and kill a car thief, who is not threatening your life during said activity - as they should. Societal menaces come in all shapes and forms. Vigilante justice is no better or worse than criminal behavior. They are one in the same.
1.) As for all the arm chair tough guys and kill 'em all let God sort 'em out types: Grow up. Life doesn't go down like it does on TV. Chances are the person stealing your car is desperate and a thug who may be armed. That "innocent" car theft may turn into you dying. The last thing you want to think before you take your last breath is " dammit.... I am gonna die over this stupid, cheap hunk of plastic and metal..." Unless you are a special ops guy or serious ass kicker, don't get yourself killed. Cmon... you drive a Lotus. You aren't fooling anyone. Just call the freakin cops and let them do their job.
2.) And to any of you happy, quick trigger types looking really hard for someone to "cross the line": When you get that urge to be Charles Bronson in real life, try a warning shot or a loud verbal first. Thank you.
BTW, I believe in the death penalty and enjoy firearms. I box, wrestle and kickbox but I do not believe in violence. I try to learn something new each day and I do not believe in dumb people.
A:
Hi Joe,
Before you go on your judgemental tear, make sure you're not attacking a straw man.
I don't believe anyone here is suggesting shooting a car thief unless it's in the act of car jacking, a crime that often puts the victims life in danger.
As for shooting someone swinging a bat, the victim is definitely in danger of death. I quite sure I can tell the difference between a car jacker and their intended victim.
On commanding a warning to cease or firing a warning shot, that depends on the situation; is the attacker threatening or in the process of striking with murderous intent? If you don't want to be shot by the police or an armed citizen, don't attack someone with a bat.
Lastly, I don't know if you mentioned the Charles Bronson name as a slap at me, but you should know that my screen name, "DeathWish," refers to the death wish I must have to drive cars that are dangerous, such as the Elise or my previous rocket, the 550A. It's not a desire to shoot someone; no car is worth a man's life. I would much rather run away and call 911 than pull a trigger and hope that's the instinct of others here. I would, however, pull the trigger to save my life or yours.
Earlier in this thread it was suggested that an unarmed man could defend themselves from a bat; I consider that a remarkable feat. Possible if the attacker is not competent and the defender is exceptional, but the most likely outcome would be serious injury if not death for the victim. I don't believe I could have done it, even at the peak of my martial arts ability. I applaud your skill and confidence; love to have you with me in a bar fight!
Lastly, I don't believe in the death penalty; not that I believe some people don't merit it, but it's can't be error proof, it's racially and economically biased, and it just costs too much both in dollars and civic morality.
Best regards,
Leo
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boy this thread got way off track - somebody should have dragged the gun/bat/kill debate posts onto a new one. Sorry for dispensing unasked for advice re the two spots Obsidian. You may be right if you had two incicdents in the same lot - maybe there are too many wierd people round there. However, I would probably still do what I said before - still go to the bakery but park up front where all the people are. I think lots of people around most of the time would stop that behavior - the wierdos can't tell who on the sidewalk or just coming out of the store is the owner of the car.
Of course you could give up and eat at my favorite place - go to Dunkin Donuts instead
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I just had a chance to test my moderate position on the issue of someone messing with my Lotus. I have been driving my elise to the train station car park while my usual car is being fixed. Yesterday I get off the train to find a guy 'feeling up' my lotus, literally. I watched him for a couple of minutes run his hands over the car in a demented way.
I snuck up behind him and hit him square in the lower back, as he collapsed to the floor I hit my remote and opened my drivers side door. I repeatedly opened and shut the door crashing it into his head as he lay prone on the ground. When he lay motionless on the ground I pulled out my .22 deringer and gave him one in the brain.
Ok thats not what I did. I just hit my remote the car beeped and he walked off.
A:
I’ve been back to the bakery since these incidents but with the “family vehicle”. I parked up front and ate inside that day. I don’t bear ALL the residents around the area ill will or wish them harm, but it seems that for whatever reason this single location attracts a certain element of individual with unapologetic and unrivaled self-importance.
My perception of the clientele was solidified while I enjoyed the food one morning early this spring. We watched a woman come into the store (not take a number despite the fact they were very busy and have one of those ticket dispensers at the door) and order the things she wanted by speaking over the employee calling the next number. She got her order while everyone was shaking his or her heads at the rude behavior. The woman paid for her items and began to talk loudly on her cell phone on the way out of the door.
She pulled out of her handicapped spot (there was no sticker or special plates on her Lexus SUV) and proceeded to back into a light pole support structure. She got out of the truck while swearing (still on the phone) as if the pole moved into her way and that it wasn’t her fault she ran into it.
There were smirks from inside the bakery from patrons and many stifled laughs. One vocal person sitting on the patio outside the bakery said, “You deserved worse! Hah!”
Not appreciating the unsupportive behavior of the area she got into her vehicle and sped off leaving a cracked portion of her bumper and lights in the parking lot. The only thing that would have made it more fitting was if she hit something else on the way out of the parking lot, she didn’t. Luckily for everyone there she didn’t hit any cars or people.
I believe in karma to a certain extent. Some people are able to avoid repercussions for their reckless and inconsiderate behavior. But every so often I get to see that come back on them and I will entirely admit that it makes me smile.
I agree that it’s not proper to paint an entire suburb with the same negative light but at least 20% of the time I venture to this one location I see something worth remembering and sharing stories about. After 15,000 miles on the Elise, parking it in many locations across the great state of Minnesota this is the sole location that I’ve had issues, which I’m aware of. Others have totally different experiences and I’m glad they do, it helps put a certain perspective on the events.
I don’t think there is a single Dunkin Donuts in the state of Minnesota. We just recently got Krispy Kreme within the last few years. I don’t care for their food. But I seem to be in the minority with that opinion.
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Originally Posted by ewalberg
you want people to stop freaking out about you taking up two spots? Well, i don't think you're reading between the lines.
Or parking between the lines, either.
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Originally Posted by cshama
...
Ok thats not what I did. I just hit my remote the car beeped and he walked off.
your car beeps?
or did he set your alarm off... sometimes i wish my alarm made some kind of noise when arming or disarming
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Originally Posted by DeathWish
Lastly, I don't know if you mentioned the Charles Bronson name as a slap at me, but you should know that my screen name, "DeathWish,"
E
Leo
Nope. I actually didn't even see your name and I would not have made that correlation unless you wrote something about being a vigilante. My post is directed at a group or type of person and nobody has been singled out - in writing anyway. If you fit into what I am saying...so be it. My posts often contain sarcasm and satire. The forum is for entertainment too, but I do firmly believe what I am typing (most of the time). I can usually just brush off such controversial posts, but sometimes I cannot believe what I am reading and must respond. The way I would respond to the situation would be random, depending on the actual situation. If my strong Spidey sense went off...I would call the cops in a heartbeat. Losing my life over an object is not my idea of a good time. Being tough isn't alwalyys about being physical. Mental toughness will win out most of the time.
I am definitely in the minority in regards to this topic though. That is what truly frightens me.
The only issue I had was with Flyguy's comment about his cool dad killing two dudes. From the way he told the story, his dad, got his gun and murdered two people...shot one in the head and the other IN THE BACK for trying to break into his car and "saving" a security guard who got hit with a bat. The BIGGEST issue I had was the fact that Flyguy was so flippant about this. Sociopathic, braggadocio behavior about murder is wrong IMHO, no matter what the situation was. Sorry, I stand firm on this topic and stiil wonder why more people do not see it that way. I love Lotus (tired about not talking about Lotus)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Obsidian, I think you handled the original situation very well... and this is coming from a "NRA-card-carrying-low-life"
It shouldn't be a big deal to take up 2 spaces in the back of an open parking lot. But, on the other hand, IMHO there is no reason to park like this in the back of an open parking lot. Parking in 2 spaces seems to be enough to push some people over the edge that are already having "issues."
Much of the enjoyment of having a car like this is lost because of so many inconsiderate people messing with them while parked. When out of my garage, I don't feel comfortable leaving it unattendand for any extended period of time.
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Originally Posted by bluejae
your car beeps?
or did he set your alarm off... sometimes i wish my alarm made some kind of noise when arming or disarming
It does - the "thunk" of the locks. But if you really want it to beep....