A&Q about Lotus
Q:
I am considerring replacing my 2000 911 C2 Coupe with, you guessed it, an Elise. I have a bunch of questions that I was hoping to get some frank responses from members of this forums.
More specifically, I am considering the following options:
* StarShield
* Hard Top
* Touring Pack
I live in NJ, so all year driving is out. I did buy myself a pickup truck for snow on the ground days, but I have always preferred to drive the zippy little car on days that I could.
So here are my questions:
* Road noise, how bad? I do understand that buying an Elise is about the go fast / fun and not the comfort. But life does tend to stick us in traffic or require longer trips. With the stock speakers and setup will I be able to listen to the radio (NPR news) and not have to turn it up to 11? What if I'm cruising at 80 mph? How do these situations compare with hard vs soft top?
*Comfort. Being 35 years old, 6 foot tall and a few pounds more then I should be, will I be a cripple after a long drive? Will I find myself in the truck whenever I've got to go more than 100 miles? I understand some bouncing about (had a 92 911 Targa which was pretty harsh, but acceptable comfort wise.)
*Star shield. I assume this is a must, and that cars without it get dinged up pretty bad.
*Soft top on and off. The dealer keeps telling me that this is super easy, but it looks more than a little practiced. Are people putting the top on and off when running out to the store etc? It also looks like if you want to go on a weekend trip and bring a girlfriend and a change of clothes, the boot is going to pretty tight once you try and put the top in. How are the weekend trips storage wise? Difficult is ok, impossible is a bit tricky. Oddly the 911's proved to be pretty reasonable since you could drop an endless amount of stuff in the back seat.
*Hard top. Does it get buzzy inside with it on? How many months of the year are people driving with the top on? I do like the look of the car with the top on, but if it lives its whole life in the garage, I might just skip it.
So thoughts from people who are daily driving would be great. I LOVE the idea of getting this car and I just don't want to regret it because I didn't think about something before hand. I know the practical compromises and I can accept those going in based on the fun driving but I'd like to avoid the gotchas.
Thanks,
Adam
A:
Welcome to the gang. I'm another 30 something 6 footer with a few pounds tacked on and I do ok. I am going to upgrade to the 06 probax seats from my 05, they feel better. Soft top is easy to put on and take off after you develop your routine. It's not that big a deal. The noise level will be higher than your pcar. I think that the difference in amenities will be the biggest adjustment for you.
A:
Adam,
I am a convert from a Pcar fan, had a couple of Turbo's in the past. Gotta say the Lotus is an 11 when it comes to the fun to drive factor. I don't use mine as a daily driver and don't know if I would want to. You may want to see if you can "rent" one for a day before you dive in full time.
Biggest complaint from most people is getting in and out, not easy but I think it is part of the charm of the car. I have a stage II exhaust so it is loud and at 80mph you will not hear the stereo at all. The stock speakers do suck and replacing those makes a world of difference. With stock exhaust and better speakers you may be happy.
This is one of those cars that you will only enjoy if you truly love to drive, it is by far the most fun on four wheels I have ever had.
Anyway good luck and welcome to the club!
A:
Quick Answers:
Comfort: Definitely go sit in one. People are willing to endure different things.
Road/Interior Noise - Consider getting the touring pack and not getting the sport pack. Also get the stock exhaust (unless these things are important to you). The base model car is more than capable.
Hardtop - Get it. If you don't use it, you will be able to sell it for the same price you paid (they are more expensive after the fact). Especially if you are getting a popular color. In my experience, there is not a huge noise difference between soft and hard top.
Softtop - Easy to remove/install once you've done it a few times.
Starshield - Definitely.
Welcome!
A:
The soft top is a piece of cake. Given NJ weather you might also consider a "raincap". You might also consider a "gullwing" (.
I don't know about a daily commute in NY/NJ traffic. It isn't so much the interior noise as it is the pavement surface; no problem at speed but you can tell the date on a dime at commute speeds.
As regarding weekend trips...better tell her to wear everything she's going to take to save room for the make-up case! (I have a European-manufactured boltless luggage rack for my old Z-3; wonder if there is yet one on the market for the Elize?)
Radio is ok with either top on...if you can figure out how to use it and you're not bothered by the speaker covers falling off.
I've had riding lawn mowers with more amenities, BUT...I've never enjoyed driving a car or motorcycle as much as I enjoy my 05 Elise, no matter the surface, the traffic, the weather or the clothes left in the closet!
My only caution would be that unless your enthusiasm for the drive can overcome your love of the 911 creature comforts you might tire of it pretty quickly.
A:
* StarShield - Get it or you will regret it.
* Hard Top - Nice to have. I have mine on most of the time. Soft top is not bad, but it is definitely not leak proof.
* Touring Pack - Get it if you are concern about the road noise (which is bad). You will be luck if you can hear your cell phone ring.
* Stock Sound System - Alsolutely usless. Plan on spending money if you need NPR.
* Comfort - I think most people are surprise on how comfortible it really is, even for a 6 footer.
* Stuff - Remember, no cup holder, no cruise, no til wheel and minimal seat adjustment. If these are issues, than it might not be the car for you. But trust me, once you drive it, you will quickly forget about those other needs (except maybe for the cup holder. search ET for solution).
Good luck...
A:
And your g/f had better pack light.
A:
Originally Posted by steidley
But life does tend to stick us in traffic or require longer trips....
So thoughts from people who are daily driving would be great....
Driving in traffic can be a bit scary. The top of your roof is below the level of SUV windows - people often can't see you (or aren't paying enough attention to see you) - hang back when stopping behind larger cars and SUVs - visibility to the rear quarters from the Elise isn't the best - you need to be on constant alert in traffic - drive defensively and expect the other guy to do something unexpected.
A:
People really find driving on a busy highway to be scary? I understand the reasoning, but that represents most of the driving in NJ.
So far the comments are not too discouraging....
A:
Originally Posted by steidley
People really find driving on a busy highway to be scary? I understand the reasoning, but that represents most of the driving in NJ.
So far the comments are not too discouraging....
It's no scarier than driving a motorcycle in traffic. Just drive defensively and be aware that a lot of people can not see you. I drive this way in every car, so for me there was no adjustment.
A:
Originally Posted by steidley
* Road noise, how bad? I do understand that buying an Elise is about the go fast / fun and not the comfort. But life does tend to stick us in traffic or require longer trips. With the stock speakers and setup will I be able to listen to the radio (NPR news) and not have to turn it up to 11? What if I'm cruising at 80 mph? How do these situations compare with hard vs soft top?
*Comfort. Being 35 years old, 6 foot tall and a few pounds more then I should be, will I be a cripple after a long drive? Will I find myself in the truck whenever I've got to go more than 100 miles? I understand some bouncing about (had a 92 911 Targa which was pretty harsh, but acceptable comfort wise.)
* Road noise: Stock radio, stock speakers and without top I can still hear the radio at 80 mph without it being cranked up all the way.
* Comfort: I'm 40. no extra pounds and my wife is 37 and overweight. Yesterday we took a 10 hour road trip through twisties in the Elise, today a 10 hour trip in her Audi A4 convertible. Both trips were equally comfortable, no pains or other discomforts.
A:
20 hours on the road in 2 days! Wow. Glad to see the Elise didn't slow down the desire to go out again the next day.
A:
Originally Posted by azskycop
Biggest complaint from most people is getting in and out, not easy but I think it is part of the charm of the car.
Ditto! ..my thoughts from another thread...
Originally Posted by lucksta
I didn't originally get my Elise as a daily driver, but it certainly turned into that in the nearly two years I've owned it. It's just too much fun NOT to drive every day. Interestingly, the ingress issue is something that actually makes this car special to me (and, at 54, I'm no spring chicken).
Getting in is very much a deliberate act - it's not something one does unconsciously. Each time is a wake-up call... "What fun. Now, I'm gonna' drive. ****, it's great to be alive!" All this - before I even hit the start button.
Same thing getting out. Yes, it's a production; not something you do in your sleep. It's a punctuation mark: not a period, but an exclamation point... "I'm done driving now, and boy was that fun. ****, it's great to be alive!"
I know we're all different, but sometimes all the "in/out" bitching reminds of the folks who rentlessly circle the parking lot in search of nearest spot to the entrance of the gym. This car makes you pick your sorry ass up to get in and drive it.
Good luck with your decision.
-Chuck
A:
Originally Posted by steidley
20 hours on the road in 2 days! Wow. Glad to see the Elise didn't slow down the desire to go out again the next day.
We drove 120 through Yosemite Park and then from Lee Vining to Benton which is one of the best drives possible. Lee Vining to Benton has tons of ups and downs, wide sweepers, esses and dips over a 5 mile straight where you can savely catch air. Plus, no traffic whatsoever. So after doing this in the Elise she wanted a repeat in the Audi
A:
Your current car is paid for I assume - keep it and get the Elise as a weekend car. I almost sold my BMW to help pay for my Elise but at the last minute I decided to keep it as a daily driver and use the Elise for weekends.
I believe I made the right choice. The Elise is the most fun you can have in a street legal car but you can't try to get anything much larger than a loaf of bread home in it and it is no fun in traffic. I drive the Orange County and LA freeways every day to work and it is not the car for that. I'm 5'9" 150 lbs and it starts to get very small in there when you are just sitting for an hour going 5mph.
It has no bumpers - the slightest tap and you can expect a $2100 - $3000 repair - another reason I don't want to use it for a daily driver. Too much risk of getting hit in the rush hour traffic.
As someone mentioned, you have to be 100% aware of what is going on around you. I watch everything when I drive the BMW but it's a hightened awareness in the Elise - people don't see you - truck driver or large SUV's are the worst. Dirt haulers or sandy freeways will pit the car to death - the star shield only goes part way.
But on the weekends I hit the back country and have a blast. That's what the car is made for and the comfort level is perfect.
It does sound to me like you would regret making the change to the Elise as a daily driver - I think I would have; you can't just go to home depot and pick up something in that car - you have to have access to something else.
There are a lot of people on this forum that use the Elise as a daily driver and have no issues with it. I know that it is a daily driver for a lot of Euorpean owners. Just consider the ways that you need to use a car before you decide to sell the car you have.
Too many people it seems have not thought it through before buying from the number of used cars there are with very little miles on them. I would hate yours to become another one for sale. The number of used for sale right now has killed resale value for the time being so you might want to consider a used one for a weekend car.
A:
If you love driving back curvy roads, this is the car for you. If you've ever done a racing school in an open wheel formula school car, it's kinda like that. Every bump, vibration, you can feel. No power steering, you feel everything. Be aware that the power curve of the engine is gonna be way different than your Porsche. As far as I'm concerned, these cars have NO torque. If you're ok with keeping RPM's up in the 6k+ range, then you'll have a blast. Don't expect to hit the throttle at 4k rpm, and blast past the EVO sitting next to you.
Cheers,
Skottoman
A:
Originally Posted by InTheRed
I believe I made the right choice. The Elise is the most fun you can have in a street legal car but you can't try to get anything much larger than a loaf of bread home in it and it is no fun in traffic. I drive the Orange County and LA freeways every day to work and it is not the car for that. I'm 5'9" 150 lbs and it starts to get very small in there when you are just sitting for an hour going 5mph.
I use mine as a daily driver , 6' 179lbs. I stop by the grocery store on the way home often and routinely get 4 - 5 bags of groceries, several gallon jugs of water, 2 cases of soft drinks with no problem what so ever. Be sure to get paper for loose hard items, or plastic and tie the tops. I drive the 10 freeway every day and get stuck in traffic and it is totally fine for me, the seats are very comfy, the only down side is as with any manual car , stop and go gets tedious with clutch. Another nice thing about the Elise as a dd is the gas milage. The radio is totally fine , unless you are hard of hearing, I was on the freeway yesterday doing 80mph with the windows down and listened to the NFL games with volume at about halfway. That said I often find myself turning off the radio and just enjoying the engine sound ,it is its own kind of music and is much more entertaining than most talk radio!
A:
Originally Posted by steidley
People really find driving on a busy highway to be scary? I understand the reasoning, but that represents most of the driving in NJ.
It can be unsettling. The car is very, very low -- you need to do a test drive to experience it. You have to avoid things like staying alongside a taller vehicle (i.e. most of them). I find changing lanes to be the worst of it, for example moving into the middle lane of a 3-lane highway, because you can't really see for sure if someone else is trying to move into the same spot and you know they probably can't see you if they are. A common modification is to fit wider-angle side mirrors, which helps.
More important and alluded to previously: what's your parking situation like? Parallel-parking the car is extremely risky; if you have to do that on a regular basis you do not want an Elise. It has no bumpers, the front and rear are huge single pieces of thin fiberglass, and they're made through some sort of special injection-molding process that apparently makes them difficult to patch(?). The slightest tap from another car, such as someone parallel-parking "by feel", can mean thousands in damage. Despite the car's small size its doors actually open very widely so narrow parking spaces can also be an issue.
To your original points:
With the top off and windows down, I can hear the stereo but not well. And that's with better speakers than stock. With the soft top on and the windows up, it's much better. I do have the touring pack which adds more sound insulation.
I'm mid-30's, overweight, and around 5'11. I find the car to be comfortable enough once I'm in it. I've heard that the 2006 seats (which is what I've got) are better than the 2005. The seats can be a bit thin for some people so make sure you try them.
StarShield or an equivalent is absolutely necessary if you value your paint. For example the front tires kick up debris directly onto the door sills; my StarShield there had some snags in it after only a few weeks of daily driving.
Soft top on and off is easy. The most difficult bit is just getting it in and out of the trunk if you've already got it full of junk. Someone recently demonstrated how they store it behind the seats, which can solve that problem. I think more than one person claims to have put the top on (due to rain) without even getting out of the driver's seat.
Weekend trips for two could be an issue. You will need to pack very light. I've done a 3-day track weekend carrying not only luggage but a floor jack, stands, spare oil/fluids, two toolbags, folding chair, helmet, etc -- but I had the passenger seat completely filled to window level, plus the trunk full to bursting, plus a bunch of stuff crammed behind the seats. With a passenger it would have been a non-starter.
Also, if you keep a car cover and some cleaning supplies in the trunk (as I normally do during the week), that leaves you with enough room for the top and not much more.
Hard top on and off is more trouble than the soft top, requiring tools and obviously you can't store it in the trunk. I don't have one, but I've seen the procedure.
A:
I drive mine everyday in NJ traffic. I do not find it scary to drive in traffic. My first car was a motorcycle and I got used to being the smallest thing around. The Elise is much bigger than a motorcycle.
You must have starshield, I asked the same thing at the dealer and they said it was very important. You'll tear up your paint without it.
I don't like the look of the hardtop and didn't get one, haven't missed it.
I second the showercap/sunshield. I put it on every day at work to keep stuff out, especially the rain that creeps up every now and then.
This year I've driven mine from the end of February every day, except when I need a car with more than two seats.
The car is louder with the top on than it is with the top off at least in the deep rumble sound region.
It's a bumpy ride and sometimes it feels like it'll fall apart on some of our finer roads.
My commute to work is almost entirely back roads, but I drive it for meetings and take 206, 95, 195, 295, 31, 1, 287, etc. So I've been on all the major roads around during peak hour and haven't had any issues.
I replaced the speakers within two weeks...the head unit is next, but I can get enough out of what I've now got to hear the music at 80 top off and windows down.
Get your lady to sit in it and ride in it, mine hates the seats. She'll ride in it now because she knows how important it is to me and how much I enjoy it.
Lastly, forget comfort features, this car is about driving, take it out on 524 or 528 and rip around, soon you too will be a Lotus driver, or convinced you can't stand it.
A:
Thanks for the input. Sounds like the showercap is a good idea. I assume it is super quick on / off.
I will have a 1 car garage in a townhouse to park it in, so no big problems there. I also still own a Big Old Dodge Ram 1500, so I will have another choise to daily drive in practicality warrants.
It sounds like this combo would have me avoiding parrallel parking at all costs, but that is no great tragedy.
I saw posts on speaker replacements, and that seems to be not too expensive, maybe $300 all told.
Dealer wise, how are people's experience with the 2 NJ dealers or the Maryland dealer or NY dealers. I know people love HRM, but I'll be in Piscataway and being 90 minutes from the primary service department seems to be a mistake.
Thoughts?
Adam