A&Q about Lotus
Q:
It is much easier imho for a forced induction motor to last 100-150k under normal driving test conditions than to last 36k of track or extreme duty driving. Normal driving for most turbo or sc cars would mean 1 to 2 percent of running time to be under boost while it would probably be 75 percent on a track.
A:
Originally Posted by Donbecker
Sitting here with a salty taste in their mouth that they bought too early.
IMHO, it would have been a different story altogether had I not been told by every person connected to Lotus that it wasn't coming prior to purchase..or if news of the Exige S coming to the US also spoke of upgrades to existing cars.
Lotus, are you laughing with me or at me?
I completely agree with this. A very reputable dealer repeatedly told me prior to the purchase of my Exige that the Exige S was not coming and that if it did it would not be street legal. Reading reports like this also confirmed these remarks:
British automaker Lotus has no new models slated for the U.S. market for the next few years, a spokesman said yesterday. The next U.S. model "is a ways off," the spokesman told Edmunds. "We have nothing new coming for the foreseeable future," he added. The recently-unveiled Lotus Europa S, Lotus Exige S, and Lotus Elise S will not come to the United States due to emissions regulations, the automaker recently said. Currently, the only Lotus models sold in the United States are the Elise R and the standard Exige. Recently, Lotus announced plans to build a new mid-engine sports car in 2008 to replace the discontinued Esprit. It's not clear if that model will come to North America.
Do I feel misled? Absolutely.
.
A:
Yeah, I went through a lot of hell getting my Exige that I could have just avoided if I knew that the Exige S was coming. I really wanted to buy my car from the local dealer (Autostrada in Austin) but I was led to believe that the Exige S wouldn't be coming to America. Pretty much the week I got my car was when they changed their mind and let folks know it was coming...
With only 300 Exiges in the U.S. I've heard that they won't do a retrofit kit either. If only 10% of the Exige owners went with the kit that would be 30 kits... not worth the trouble. Of course our source is the same source that told us "The Exige S will not come to the United States due to emissions regulations."
A:
The fact is the Exige is a great car. The Elise is a great car.And now the S will be a great car.Let's hope Lotus keeps bettering ( is that a word ? ) the brand, we all win. No Lotus and we are all driving 2500 plus pound cars.
A:
Originally Posted by master
The fact is the Exige is a great car. The Elise is a great car.And now the S will be a great car.Let's hope Lotus keeps bettering ( is that a word ? ) the brand, we all win. No Lotus and we are all driving 2500 plus pound cars.
A:
I should be even more mad. I wanted to get a new sports car (Cayman S, M Coupe or Exige) in the Spring of '07 AFTER I moved into my new house. I was perfectly fine driving my S2000 until then.
But the Exige was released and we were told that only 300 were coming and we were told that the exemptions were going to expire in '07. So I figured I had to act immediately if I wanted to ever have a chance to buy a new Exige.
Now I'll be shopping for a mortgage with a lot less cash in my pocket. I guess I should have been more mature, but I didn't yet know that Lotus is so full-of-it.
Anway, I've got a simple solution to my problem....and although it won't help me get even with Lotus, it might make me feel a little better:
FS: Ardent Red Exige - 2000 miles - touring pack, limited slip, starshield.
1st $53k.
FS: Honda S2000 - 17000 miles. 1st $24k.
FS: Ducati 998S "Bayliss Replica" #389 of 400. 1st $18k.
I guess I've just grown weary of all of it.
When the dust settles, I'll take all or part of that $95k and buy myself one toy. I can stop shopping for residential garage lifts too. The insanity has to end.
A:
Originally Posted by master
The fact is the Exige is a great car. The Elise is a great car.And now the S will be a great car.Let's hope Lotus keeps bettering ( is that a word ? ) the brand, we all win. No Lotus and we are all driving 2500 plus pound cars.
I agree. However, it would probably behoove Lotus to stick to a company line of "We can't comment on future product releases".
A:
Originally Posted by master
The fact is the Exige is a great car. The Elise is a great car.And now the S will be a great car.Let's hope Lotus keeps bettering ( is that a word ? ) the brand, we all win. No Lotus and we are all driving 2500 plus pound cars.
I'd have to agree with this too!
There is always going to be something better out there, and always something worse! I'm satisfied to know that I am one of the lucky ones that "get it" and have a Lotus to drive whenever I want!!
Of course I'd still love to have the "S" but the Elise is still such a fantastic piece that sometimes it just doesn't matter.
A:
Originally Posted by Exigent
I should be even more mad. I wanted to get a new sports car (Cayman S, M Coupe or Exige) in the Spring of '07 AFTER I moved into my new house. I was perfectly fine driving my S2000 until then.
But the Exige was released and we were told that only 300 were coming and we were told that the exemptions were going to expire in '07. So I figured I had to act immediately if I wanted to ever have a chance to buy a new Exige.
Now I'll be shopping for a mortgage with a lot less cash in my pocket. I guess I should have been more mature, but I didn't yet know that Lotus is so full-of-it.
Anway, I've got a simple solution to my problem....and although it won't help me get even with Lotus, it might make me feel a little better:
FS: Ardent Red Exige - 2000 miles - touring pack, limited slip, starshield.
1st $53k.
FS: Honda S2000 - 17000 miles. 1st $24k.
FS: Ducati 998S "Bayliss Replica" #389 of 400. 1st $18k.
I guess I've just grown weary of all of it.
When the dust settles, I'll take all or part of that $95k and buy myself one toy. I can stop shopping for residential garage lifts too. The insanity has to end.
Are you serious about all of this!
I commend you if you are!
I wish I had the squirrel nuts to do the same as you!!
Actually I think about it everyday.
The insanity does have to end.
A:
Originally Posted by ewalberg
PLUS! Once the super charger is already in there, getting more out of it is the "easy" part. It's squeeking power out of a naturally aspirated motor or getting a supercharger in the first place which seems to be the trickiest point based on reading here.
biggest gripe is it's only in the exige if you ask me, i'm not interested in that one.
Its interesting that you say that because the word over here is that the only difference between an S and a Cup is that the DBW throttle is programmed to only open the throttle up to 60%! My cars ecu dump confirmed this. I thought something was wrong coz my printout said i had never used full throttle. Now i know why!
Put a cup map on it and you get 100% throttle opening and 240hp. I know what my first mod will be when the garantee runs out.....
A:
Originally Posted by EliseCat
Are you serious about all of this!
I commend you if you are!
I wish I had the squirrel nuts to do the same as you!!
Actually I think about it everyday.
The insanity does have to end.
I think I am. I'm constantly washing, waxing, & servicing these vehicles. They're all fair weather toys and there just isn't enough 70 degree and sunny days to enjoy them. I rarely ride the bike anymore. It's a monoposto and I actually enjoy my wife's company. I am tired of the S2000 community and I can pretty easily find a better daily driver. And the Lotus -- I love the car but it's probably the wrong car for me. I still haven't quite figured out what to do with it. I'm just not the track-day junkie I thought I would be. I don't have the time to do it and I don't have the mindset to beat the hell out of a car.
With other needs in my life and other obligations to take care of -- all of these things are expendable.
Besides, I'm pissed at Lotus. I probably won't buy another on principle.
I suspect I'll be heading back to BMW (next M3) or Porsche (911). ONE car for real roads and ONE car that can provide a thrill or two while still holding some luggage, providing some creature comforts, and could possibly even support a child's car seat.
So yes - everything is up for grabs. I'm emptying the garage.
A:
Originally Posted by bruh_la
Its interesting that you say that because the word over here is that the only difference between an S and a Cup is that the DBW throttle is programmed to only open the throttle up to 60%! My cars ecu dump confirmed this. I thought something was wrong coz my printout said i had never used full throttle. Now i know why!
Put a cup map on it and you get 100% throttle opening and 240hp. I know what my first mod will be when the garantee runs out.....
I've heard that it is far more involved than this. Different pulleys, fuel management, ECU, etc. I think the Cup is drastically different from the Exige S.
A:
Originally Posted by master
The fact is the Exige is a great car. The Elise is a great car.And now the S will be a great car.Let's hope Lotus keeps bettering ( is that a word ? ) the brand, we all win. No Lotus and we are all driving 2500 plus pound cars.
Yeah they're great cars, but let's not kid ourselves here.
It's not like we all bought Mustangs and now are bitching that Ford released the GT.
For the most part it is the same car alot of us have with some really cool parts added.
Parts that add power where 99% of people feel it needs it.
Parts that come with a factory warranty which you can't get with aftermarket.
It all comes down to this: If you had known that there was an S model coming, would you have waited to buy?
I know I would have.
Did some of the people have 'internal sources' telling them that it was coming? Yes.
Was it rumoured about on the forums? Yes.
Were there f@#$ing LOTUS dealers telling people it would never get to the US? Yes.
At the same time was Lotus working on bringing it here? Yes.
Go ahead, blame it on some kind of new model year incremental upgrade. But I don't see them offering it as a dealer installed kit.
The reality is that alot of people feel hung out to dry.
Do I still love my Elise? Yes, but it don't pull anywhere south of 6200...
FWIW,
-Don
A:
If Lotus didn't sell 2000 05 Elise's, 1000 06's and 300 06 Exige's, there would be no Exige S... When I bought a Z3 I was told no M VERSION,we know that's not true. The Gayman ( oops ) Cayman would only be in S VERSION. If we all knew what was going to be behind door # 3 we would all be waiting I've had my Elise since Aug 05, and yes I would rather have the Exige or now the Exige S, Let's hope Lotus keeps us wanting their next best racecar
A:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho
I've heard that it is far more involved than this. Different pulleys, fuel management, ECU, etc. I think the Cup is drastically different from the Exige S.
it may well have different pulleys but "fuel management" is exactly what the cup map would modify.
We are looking into it at the moment, it may well have different jets to accomadate the fueling changes but according to Lotus "the DBW throttle only opens to 60% and thats why the S has 20hp less"
But my point was that once you have an S its relatively easy to get more power compared to the hassle of fitting forced induction to a NA car. The Lotus circuit car uses the same super charger installation and its got a quoted 272hp and the Cadena GT3 Exige also with trhe same set up as the Cup/S runs std internaly and has 285hp...all with the same basic install with some map mods and of course exhaust/intake.
A:
Originally Posted by master
If Lotus didn't sell 2000 05 Elise's, 1000 06's and 300 06 Exige's, there would be no Exige S...
I'm glad that I could assist with someone having the chance to buy an Exige S
A:
Originally Posted by master
If Lotus didn't sell 2000 05 Elise's, 1000 06's and 300 06 Exige's, there would be no Exige S... When I bought a Z3 I was told no M VERSION,we know that's not true. The Gayman ( oops ) Cayman would only be in S VERSION. If we all knew what was going to be behind door # 3 we would all be waiting I've had my Elise since Aug 05, and yes I would rather have the Exige or now the Exige S, Let's hope Lotus keeps us wanting their next best racecar
But what's the price difference between a Z3 and the M roadster? Compare that to the price difference between the Exige and the Exige S. I would be really pissed if I were an Exige owner.
A:
Originally Posted by Exigent
IBut the Exige was released and we were told that only 300 were coming and we were told that the exemptions were going to expire in '07. So I figured I had to act immediately if I wanted to ever have a chance to buy a new Exige.
Originally Posted by Donbecker
Were there f@#$ing LOTUS dealers telling people it would never get to the US? Yes.
So shouldn't you be upset about the dealership who misinformed you? Shouldn't you be upset about the salesman who wanted to get an easy sell by misiforming you? Lotus did not do anything wrong, the dealers are those who you should be angry at.
And Exigent, you're boycotting Lotus because their dealer sold you a car that wasn't right for you instead of another car that was even less right for you? It seems as if your money woes would've been worse if you had waited for the S.
A:
Originally Posted by dmoney
But what's the price difference between a Z3 and the M roadster? Compare that to the price difference between the Exige and the Exige S. I would be really pissed if I were an Exige owner.
Exactly my point. I am an Exige owner and I feel short changed. There is a $6K difference in MSRP and I would certainly have waited to buy the S. I really think this is BS and I can't help but be more than a little pissed by the dealer basically lying to my face. I refuse to believe that they did not know this car was coming less than 3 months ago.
Originally Posted by AnsisK
So shouldn't you be upset about the dealership who misinformed you? Shouldn't you be upset about the salesman who wanted to get an easy sell by misiforming you? Lotus did not do anything wrong, the dealers are those who you should be angry at.
That's exactly who I'm mad at...
A:
Originally Posted by AnsisK
So shouldn't you be upset about the dealership who misinformed you? Shouldn't you be upset about the salesman who wanted to get an easy sell by misiforming you? Lotus did not do anything wrong, the dealers are those who you should be angry at.
Um, I haven't looked at the paperwork for the S car...but I would be willing to bet that while my bank paperwork was clearing, somewhere there was some S car paperwork getting filled out.
I don't have any way to prove whether or not the dealers knew. Did they hear it from Lotus and not tell me? Did Lotus never tell them?
Dunno on both.
But the one thing is all thru this, Lotus did know.
Go back at the threads debating whether the S was coming...how many times did Lotus go on the record saying it was never going to happen?
They didn't say "We're not sure" or "We can't comment" it was always "No."