A&Q about Lotus
Q:
Being pissed off at a dealer for not revealing this or that about a future product that will jeopardize their current inventory is like a fish getting angry at the fisherman for not telling him there was a hook inside the bait.
I have NEVER (well, not since my first car) relied on a dealer for anything but acting as a mode for me to get the vehicle that I have already decided on - from the factory - to me - at an agreed upon price. That is it. If you do your homework ahead of time and weigh your sources appropriately, you gain a better "chance" of getting what you want, or at least not being too frustrated in the outcome. The weight I give to dealers is in the negotiation of a fair price for the vehicle I have already decided on and for the service that vehicle will receive. Period.
A:
Maybe there is a lesson learned here? We learn in school about marketing ideas... one of which is "the scarcity principle"... basically you get a lot of potential buyers together at the same time, make them believe that there is limited supply of the product, and excite them into purchasing.
I'm 28, I've both used this myself when selling personal items/working with customers etc, as well as having been on the other end of this. (always within moral, honest parameters). I have definitely learned to suppress that sense of "oh my gosh, what if I should jump on it now?" urge that has overcome me since high school days, when a salesperson led me to believe that a new pair of "air jordan" nikes was going to be "limited edition", a collector's item, etc.etc. I think that as citizen's of the world's most consumerist society, we should take it upon ourselves to become "sophisticated consumers"... we need to suppress that urge to believe in, and get caught out by the scarcity principle. It's not wrong for lotus to hide their future products, it just feels expecially bitter when the scheme is so evident that we should have known about this all along. Clearly the exige s is the car that we have been waiting for since the elise came out, maybe the car the elise "should" have been. I returned my deposit to the dealer when I figured out that the BS about the 300 exiges etc.etc. was what was driving me to purchase. I wanted to make sure I really really wanted the car, and that I wasn't "excited" into buying.
Lets just use this experience as a lesson, and then we will have gained something from this experienc... repeat after me "I WILL NEVER EVER LET ANYONE EXCITE ME INTO BUYING SOMETHING" My little brother spent his whole allowance of like 1 year to buy some new friggin' special-edition sony PSP in some magic friggin' color... I hope he learns about the scarcity principle before he drops $50k... which reminds me, I have to go bid on a special-edition treo 750 in cosmic-black... I heard they're only making 150 of those!!... that thing has to go up in value...!
A:
I left work early today because it was so nice out. Went home and took the Exige out for about 2 hours.
It's still an awesome car. I love it and I kinda hate it now too.
It's still the most fun you can have for the $.
A:
Oh well, might as well throw in to.....
We got screwed on our Elise in 05 (told the Exige wasnt comming)
Got screwed on our 4 Exiges in 06 (told S wasnt comming)
No problems with the 04 Final Ed. Esprit
Soooooo here is our answer, we are done and out , we refused to take delivery of our final (4th) Exige and have sold the (3rd) one off already. Prob will keep the remaining 2 cars as drivers/track cars for the girls in the family, but thats all for us. In two years we have ordered/purchased 6 brand new Lotus cars and have nothing but regret with regard to being lied to, and one-upped by cars we knew existed but were told was never going to come. So your prob. all right, shame on us for being taken advantage of and believing what we were told (didnt think I was going to be lied to), but this is the last time it happends. Congrats Lotus on pushing away a family that helped your business to the tune of more than $300K in the last two years it's the last you will recieve from us. For everyone attending the Club 111 Dinner with Lotus' people at the South East run be prepaired, it might get a bit messy this year
The funny thing was when our dealer found out we were ordering (2) Noble m400's and an Ariel Atom 300 they asked "would it change your mind if we told you the Exige S was comming" Oh man that still makes me laugh.
By the way for those of you considering the Noble, out of approx. 74 stateside owners I have contacted, I have only talked with (1) upset/unsatisfied individual who likley had a bad instal from a non-recomended shop (he is a member here), so Im not sure who said Nobles are unreliable but that is just untrue, two of them just finished the 2006 Us. One Lap in 7th and 10th overall and the cars have local and overseas awards coming out of their @ss' on the track and from the motoring press. The only prob. is "track time heat soak" which can be handled with proper modifications should you be running the cars under race situations. Oh yes then there is the fact that they will kick the dog S*%t out of an Exige or most any other car priced under $400K (check Autocar's 2005 Best Driver's Car awards. as and example, in one (1) lap around Rockingham the 240R was 5 sec. slower, Ford gt 4 sec off, Ferarri F430 4 sec off, Porsche Carerra S 4 sec off, and the list continues.) Thats a car worth the money.
The scary thing is we arnt mad (though we prob. should be) just kinda numb and moving on. Who can you trust in life is the ultimate question , guess we are finding out who you cant. Feel free to flame up and yell about my post now and how Im wrong for feeling this way and stupid for buying like we did, it doesnt much matter to us anymore. But remember there are at least 200 Exige owners that prob. feel a bit of what I have just said so the simple fact remains, that something is wrong, loyal people have been cheated to a certain degree, and if this practice continues enough people will follow suit and go to another company for their kicks. See ya round, The Miller Family.
A:
Exige owners who feel cheated should start a petition to Lotus for a S/C kit. It wouldn't hurt to try.
A:
Originally Posted by Adam
Exige owners who feel cheated should start a petition to Lotus for a S/C kit. It wouldn't hurt to try.
Might just buy a Porsche instead.
Why would I want to give Lotus more of my money? So they can come out with a better supercharger next year?
A:
Ok here's my perdiction Lotus will offer a S/C that will fiit the Elise when all the Exige S cars are spoken for and piss off a few more people.
A:
I really don't understand the logic behind being angry at a company for improving their product line.
A:
Originally Posted by SAElise
I really don't understand the logic behind being angry at a company for improving their product line.
+1 They changed their minds, get over it. You guys act like that's never happened in the history of all manufacturing.
Your current car didn't just turn to a dust ball, so enjoy it.
A:
I agree. I don't understand the complaining about this. Companies improve their product line all the time. It's called business. You can't blame the dealers. They probably didn't have 100% confirmation until yesterday as well.
Come December, I'm trading in my Elise for the Exige S.
Am I going to take a bath with my trade in loss? Probably. But that's the price you pay to have the newest/latest/fastest.
A:
Originally Posted by LotusFamily
Oh well, might as well throw in to.....
We got screwed on our Elise in 05 (told the Exige wasnt comming)
Got screwed on our 4 Exiges in 06 (told S wasnt comming)
I agree, and feel like I was screwed so hard that I should leak when I walk. I just bought a 2006 Elise a month ago from FVMC and was told that the S/C Exige was not coming, or that if it was it would NOT be street legal. I use my Elise as a 3 1/2 season car, so the lack of visibility for no extra power pushed me away from the Exige.
I have wanted an Elise since I saw my first one on a street in London in 1996 but I have been disappointed from day one by all of the piss-poor quality issues (a/c leak, headlight and suspension alignment, constant CELs, leaks, panel fit and discoloring). Now I find that I was fed a line of crap on top of it all. That is a great way to build brand equity.
I would like to personally thank Lotus for pushing me back to German cars. I wanted a new Esprit badly, but I guess I will buy an M6 the next time around. I know it is not as "engaging" or "pure" but it is also not a POS that will be outgunned by the same brand in two months. At least I will buy one if I can get more then $8 for my Elise.
Here is to hoping that Lotus goes the way of the dodo.
A:
I think what people are pissed off about is the misinformation from Lotus or at least the way they just kind of pull stuff of their @$$ instead of having a clear development strategy for their products that is clear to their customers.
For example, Porsche which some people have blasted here many times before, is a perfect example: when you buy a 911 you KNOW for a fact there will be at least 3 of 4 more variants of the same body coming out in the next couple of years i.e. Carrera, Carrera S, GT3, Turbo, GT2, you also KNOW that next upgrade in power is probably 2-3 years away in your exact model i.e. 1999 Carrera 296 HP, 2001 Carrera 320 HP, and so on... Ferrari does something similar with their lines and so does BMW, Mercedes, etc. With these manufacturers and I guess every manufacturer other than Lotus, you KNOW that if you get the car the first year it comes out you will have it as the latest version of the vehicle for about 3 years untill a new one comes out. With Lotus you never know and that uncertanty is the piss off factor. If you know that in 3 years the more powerfull version of your exact same car will come out you can buy now and plan on upgrading in 3 years and son on , and so on, and most people will not hold off buying for 3 years because in 3 years from now you already now that there will again be a more powerfull one coming out. A steady market strategy helps the consumers make their purchase decision.
A:
German cars. They never come out with new models that have more power or better performance.
A:
That's a good point however, Lotus doesn't have the luxury of a 3 -5 yr plan. They could be sold yesterday. They have to sell as many cars, as quickly as they can to stay in the game.
A:
Originally Posted by MattP
German cars. They never come out with new models that have more power or better performance.
I already have one plus the Elise.
A:
Originally Posted by JAYKAY
I have wanted an Elise since I saw my first one on a street in London in 1996 but I have been disappointed from day one by all of the piss-poor quality issues (a/c leak, headlight and suspension alignment, constant CELs, leaks, panel fit and discoloring). Now I find that I was fed a line of crap on top of it all. That is a great way to build brand equity.
So if you'd gotten the S, would you suddenly not be disappointed by the quality? No. Sounds like you didn't do your homework before buying it. Enjoy the 6-series.
A:
I don't really understand alot of the angst. Lotus has always built cars with improvements changes over the years to design and performance. Esprit a perfect example. Started out in the 70s with an NA 4 cyl, gradually year by year the performance/design creeped up 205hp, then 215hp, 265hp 300hp, then the v8. That's just the way Lotus has ALWAYS done things. don't know whether it's right or wrong.
The next year of the line is always going to be potential improvement on design/power. Would it be better if they just left it at 190hp and didn't change a thing?? Never attract new buyers to the market. Just my 2cents, not cheerleading here just listing a few possibilities to consider.
A:
I have not finished reading this entire thread yet so don't have a stroke if I post something that has already been said. But while it is fresh on my mind . . .
I don't have a huge problem with them bringing the car over here regardless of what they said. I do have a problem with the price. Punch me in the gut but don't kick me in my nuts. Why would you bring that car here and price it withing 3-5k of the current model. Although the gap between the C6 and ZO6 is a bit bigger, GM made it completely clear that if you wanted the big boy it was going to cost you a bit more. So those that bought very nice C6's did not feel nearly as cheated. At the very least give it a 8k premium as to not alienate you recent buyers.
As far as dealers go, I think anyone who listens to what dealers say is out there anyway. In my experience they know marginally more than the customers. I love hearing well my dealer told me this and that. Blah, blah, blah. You see how it all ended . . .
A:
This brings back thoughts of '01 ZO6's and '04 GTO's. Talk about being screwed. But back to Lotus. My issue is price, mid-50's!!!!! Talk about being kicked in the nuts. If the car was 10K more I would really have been leaning towards '06 ZO6. But that is how goes I guess. Damn, I wish I was at Forced Fed HQ right now. Right now they are getting **** FACE DRUNK, thinking about all the current Exige owners who are counting their pennies for that wonderful FF275 kit. I know I am.
A:
I personally think it's great they've added the supercharger. The Elise is insane on the highway driving in traffic. The car is as much as I should have based on my driving skills. I'm not ready for the extra power in my Elise. If I decide to expend the time at the track, then the Exige is the way to go and the extra power will be marginally useful to me. I personally don't see the Exige as an everyday road car - the Elise barely (arguably) fits that role. So I'm not upset at all that they haven't released a kit for the Elise. And there is almost no way I wil lbuy a third party kit. As of yet, I haven't seen one that can allow for long term reliability.
The Elise and Exige are insanely fast cars, assuming you know how to drive and have the guts to drive them into the corners like they are intended. That said, on a track you can always use more power so long as it doesn't take away from the agility of the car. So an SC Exige is a perfect car. I hope they do improve upon it and eventually take it to 240-250 hp. But after that, are most of you really capable of driving that kind of car? If you are, can you drive the lines and maintain a smooth transition from corner to corner? I'm sure Randy can (have to get my kudos/promotions in), but who else? We all dream of being race car drivers, but at the end of the day a lot of us settle for the quick and easy approach - lots of power and no skill. All throttle in the straights, hard breaking, and slow to sloppy corners. The perfect car for that already exists. Lotus will never beat (I use the word never for emphasis, not literally) the Corvette Z06 for that function.
That's my 2 cents. I'm sure there are a lot of us out there that thing we are more than Lotus can challenge us with. But at this point, I surrender myself to the base Elise as being superior to my abilities.