A&Q about Lotus
Q:
Originally Posted by kaz
as far as reliability, it's all a matter of the tune. Search to your heart's content on newcelica.org and you'll find all sorts of people with the same supercharger and basically the same turbo setup - most are doing great after years, some have had trouble do to the tune and detonation.
I'm not sure if it is all just a matter of tune. You start getting into too much power for the parts to handle. I've seen evidence that the 2zz starts to fall apart above about 275HP; especially if you drive the car to redline a lot, like on long canyon runs or at the track. I need that kind of reliability. Most people at newcelica.org never drive the car hard enough. Notice that the FF340 gets into the internals to beef it up.
A:
All true...I would think anything north of where we are going with the ronin kit will need some kind of reinforcement. However I (and probably Frank) am in the break it fix it later "Six Million Dollar Man" style camp. He beats on his engine like nobody's business, and I have and will be tracking the car a ton...so if something breaks we'll all know about it, and then there's even more fun to be had! But I strongly feel that although it's not crazy to think people would want a reliable solution (because we all do), anyone even thinking about tinkering away from stock config has to know anything can go wrong and be prepared to pony up a new engine or rebuild it. That being said, there are very reliable solutions available...well two at least.
A:
I'm glad someone started this. I plan on boosting my motor next winter. My bias was to go FF because I haven't heard any complaints about the 275 package and that's all the power I want and they are reasonably close to Boise. Where is Tripoint?
A:
Forcedfed is in NorCal, Tripoint is SoCal. Reggie however apparently will personally fly and install if you wine and dine him with ladies and booze.
I think one of the mods should move this thread to the Forced Induction area.
A:
I will do my best to talk you into it. I had the 275 installed last year and upgraded to a 340 about 6 months later. The process has not been 100% trouble free but the results are impressive. If you are looking for the raw hp this is the real deal. The car clocked in 3.2 s o-60 on many runs with 1/4 mile times in the high 11's. There are few cars in the world that can match those numbers.The most impressive part is the instant throttle response the power comes on immediately and very linear pulling very hard up 8500 rpm. The only problem i see with the kit is you desire to go balls out all the time. It is intoxicating My issues were related to the unichip piggyback and idling. This has been corrected by unichip.
As for dealing with forcedfed, John the owner is a stand up guy who has done everything to make sure i am satisfied with this car. Hands down the best modification you could make to your car. I also own an exige and although a lot of fun and competetive it will not keep up my ff car. If you got the money do it!!
Originally Posted by rush
After convincing myself that I absolutely must have more power in my Elise...can anyone convince me that that FF kit is not the way to go? To summarize what it seems like everyone is saying...FF completed what Lotus should have before they imported. Any comments would be greatly appreciated!
A:
Whistle of FI > Whine of S/C
A:
The sound of blow-off makes my legs weak.
A:
Originally Posted by bluejae
a better kit for cheaper? what about the R&D involved?
and about the ecu... i glanced at the FF website... they have some standalone ecu thing... but that alone costs over $6K... what is that about? i would assume it's better than the one the 275 kit comes with? or is it the same?
is the FF kit still like $10K?
R&D? How much R&D is involved? Buy a better turbo, a better IC, make some tubing and you are all set. You can buy a stand alone ECU as well... I think they are a lot less than 6k
not to say there is anything wrong with the kit but I like doing things myself.
A:
For those who are interested, I just called FF.
275 package, installed, with an upgraded clutch...$11,800
340 package, installed (comes with clutch upgrade)...$25,995
A:
Originally Posted by jplotus
The car clocked in 3.2 s o-60 on many runs with 1/4 mile times in the high 11's.
These times are with the 340, right? What times were you getting with the 275?
A:
12.3 1/4, 3.9 0-60
Originally Posted by Graydon
These times are with the 340, right? What times were you getting with the 275?
A:
Originally Posted by Graydon
These times are with the 340, right? What times were you getting with the 275?
275 package 0-60 4.0 sec (that's REAL 4.0 sec, they clock stock at 5.1 which is realistic). 1/4 mile @12.5
A:
here's another viewpoint: I was a passenger in the ff275 and Bret (when still at FF) was showing off what it could do - the increase in speed was frightening. *drool* Felt much faster than my stock Elise. That car belonged to some lucky owner on ETalk who now has access to it every day. *jealous*
A:
Originally Posted by slaughtr
275 package 0-60 4.0 sec (that's REAL 4.0 sec, they clock stock at 5.1 which is realistic). 1/4 mile @12.5
If I recall correctly, that was WITHOUT dumping the clutch at a high (8000) RPM that Lotus and the sports car mags do for the 0-60 tests. More of a soft launch, closer to the way we normally would drive. I think they dropped the clutch at about 4000 RPM (but maybe someone here knows better).
A:
Being in my backyard, the FF option seems like the easy way to go, but the idea of a supercharger whine combined with the sound of single tip Ti Arqray is very tempting.
A:
Originally Posted by sleepless
Define "proven reliability" for the Tripoint kit.
Easy, look up the Greddy supercharger on New celica.org and the results of those who have kept everything stock. 0 engine failures...look it up. Its proven.... and has been for years. Also the most mod happy man with a lot of cash to spend has beaten the crap out of his car. Its documented and proven. FF turbo is not yet, although it is getting there. It doesn't have the number of clients or miles to even compare it to the Greddy kit which is what the SC kit really is.
A:
Originally Posted by msuguy
Only real reason is because you can build a better kit for cheaper by yourself. If you don't have the time then go with a kit...
I would love to see you build a better kit yourself ...(I know it will end up costing much more.....if you could even get your kit integrated into the vehicle as seamlessly as the FF kit).
A:
Originally Posted by 05EliseNM
I can't speak for the Tripoint kit; I have no experience with it. All I know is that my FF 275 kit with over 8K miles on it has been realiable and drives like a factory turbo (looks like it too). I also will NOT say that the FF kit has proven reliabilty; it is too soon to tell, and we need other high mileage FF kits on other cars to make that determination. I know for a fact the same is true about the Tripoint kit; you do not yet have the data (on the Elise) to make this statement. Also, I really do not understand why people are always looking at the cost of the FF kit. This is the wrong area of the car (or life) to try and save money. The FF kit is top notch quality; if you want to save money use coupons at the grocery store and buy generic brand cereal.
The Tripoint kit may or may not be a good kit (in the long run), I do not know this, and neither do you; only time will tell, same goes for the FF kit.
It is nice though that there appear to be two good options out there (FF and Tripoint), and one is a turbo and the other a super charger. And for those who do not like after-market power upgrades, you can get the Exige S; times are good!
Where should I begin...
1. The greddy kit is proven on the 2zz which is essentially what the Tri-point kit is. The turbo is not. Look it up and you will see the reliability of the SC. I do know it and it has been posted for years with a track record.
2. The aftercooler is an upgrade like the 340 kit from FF so are the pullys. The difference? Not spending 25K
3. The cost that FF is asking is simply silly! I mean out of this world! 25K for a built motor? Are you freaking kidding me. Look at the 4g63 or anything else....Heck, you can buy a new LS7 for 14K-new and that includes Forged everything x 8 pistons!
I could give websites all day long wo show engine builders and they cost of motors, but here is one you will love: a stroked 4g63 shortblock for $3250. Forged pistons, balanced and blueprinted etc etc and PROVEN reilaibilty with the potential for over 600 HP dyno tested and verified by a lot of people.
https://secure.buschurracing.com/cat...1f80b6890dea00
It is out of this world, and to put blinders on and pretend that they aren't overcharging is terrible. You are encouraging price gouging. Give me a break about not skimping money, anyone who would willing part with 25K for a build motor from a celica needs a punch in the face. I know some people feel it is a good idea, but its not. Sheesh! Someone is getting RICH!!!
I do agree that it is good to have options which is what I am saying. Evaluate options, use comparitive analysis, and do your homework.
A:
Originally Posted by kaz
Forcedfed is in NorCal, Tripoint is SoCal. .... ladies and booze.
Ladies & booze!
A:
Originally Posted by msuguy
R&D? How much R&D is involved? Buy a better turbo, a better IC, make some tubing and you are all set. You can buy a stand alone ECU as well... I think they are a lot less than 6k
not to say there is anything wrong with the kit but I like doing things myself.
First off...what turbo would be better? Garrett makes the highest quality turbos in the industry. Second....go ahead and makes some tubing....and have your elise end up looking like a sixteen year old kids honda civic...
The point is unless you are are very good fabricator it is going to cost alot of money to pay a professional to build you these parts.