A&Q about Lotus
Q:
Originally Posted by Mean TT
HeadStuds approx. 100-125 dollars
Main studs approx. 50-75
Rodbolts 40-50
Valves and retainers 250-350
Headwork 600-1750 (600 is MWR)
GT 28Rs 1175 SHIPPED GT28 900 Cost difference is 275 DOLLARS
Crower rods RETAIL 749.00
Weisco pistons RETAIL 569.00
Sleeves around 500.
Total:
3133 up to 4443 Plus the cost of sleeving which is not inconsequential. I threw up a huge number for head work, if anyone is paying mre than 1250 they are paying too much.
Balancing and bluepringint should be done on every engine build so it is not extra.
Even if you are spending 2500 to sleeve a motor you are charging 15000 to do it.
Other costs, like an oil pump for 200 guages for 180 a piece (defi) are incidental
I think I made my point, the cost of the components RETAIL is less than 5 thousand dollars yet the price difference is 15,000. It isn't about skimping out on money it is just a smart business move, milking the market for all its worth. I honestly can't beleive some people would think that it is even realistic.
As for the dyno numbers, Frank got 192 RWH NA, so you might want to check out MM to see some of his other dynos. He has dropped a lot of cash from what I understand, and even thoughe verything is custom and powdercoated and everything else, he still shops around for the best price. He was quoted 800 for cnc'd pullys...he paid 85 for a different vendor.
The person who started this post wanted a reason not to get FF, I think I have demonstrated it. All the ancillaries like headers, intakes, charge coolers can be purchased later or together, you can spend as you like and go faster as you feel comfortable with. Tri-point offers 90% of the performance at 50% of the price. If you want 300 hp they can deliver that too, but it won't cost anything close to 25K.
Off soap box.
Feel free to spend 25K if you want, there are a lot of other (better) ways to spend it. For the cost of a built shortblock (3000 dollars) frank could turn the wick way up on his motor, but has yet to do that.
First...that 192whp was on a dynopack....that has been known to create signifigantly higher numbers than normal.
Second:
I have a question for you.....What do you do for a living? I 've been watching you make these posts about what you could do and for how much for the last year.....so if you could do all of the things you say for the prices you're qouting...why don't you start your own company or build better turbo kit for your car for the 3 or 4k you're talking about.
Regardless to what you think, we are not "milking" the market. Since you do not modify cars for a living or build parts I can't expect you to understand what goes on in the real world....with that being said I'll continue building quality products and fast cars while you sit at your computer compiling "realistic" price lists and reading about what so and so has done instead actually doing something to your Elise
P.S. I can garauntee that I have worked on/dynoed more Lotus Elises than anyone in this country so I might know what I'm talking about.
A:
Originally Posted by Mean TT
I think I made my point, the cost of the components RETAIL is less than 5 thousand dollars yet the price difference is 15,000. It isn't about skimping out on money it is just a smart business move, milking the market for all its worth. I honestly can't beleive some people would think that it is even realistic.
I think the 8 or 9 accidents you had in your car are taking their toll. There is so much more to pricing a product than the cost of the materials. Break down your Elise into its materials cost and you get a number that is significantly less than the car's MSRP. That difference covers development, testing, and other costs incurred by Lotus to deliver an acceptable product to the consumer. Forcedfed is no different. To imply that they are milking the market is absurd.
A:
P.S. I can garauntee that I have worked on/dynoed more Lotus Elises than anyone in this country so I might know what I'm talking about.
Damn!!!!
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What MPH were the 1/4 mile runs stated earlier?
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I said I got off my soap box for a reason, I gave qouted prices for reputable vendors. The prices are real. If anyone wants me to show where I got them from fine I will be happy to do that.
As for the personal attacks I will not engage in them. I see no one is disputing the facts about what I ahve said or the prices....typical that is has become personal.
As for FF, I said before I am happy that you are making a product and people are buying it. If there is any resentment on my part, perhaps it was because I was supposed to be your first turbo car and Brett demanded 5500 dollars from me with NO experience or outcome guarenteed-I balked. That kit was initially given away for free without notifying me of a price drop. I don't think this was your doing as much as Brett's given his reputation and you substantially higher one.
The prices I quoted are real, if anyone wants to know where they can get the stuff for a decent price I will be happy to supply it. I would want to know, what would FF charge if an individual had bought these parts for the prices I listed? Even with 850 dollars for a new clutch that would leave 19,000 for installation and tuning. Is that the going rate?
I will repeat, I am glad FF makes their products, I would just encourage and shop around and compare prices. If that makes me a "bad guy" then so be it. I think this forum has had too much of "let the buyer beware" but that is a topic that has been beaten to death.
A:
Hey guys I appreciate all of your input! However I feel bad that its kinda turned into a pissing match. Casey: I'm pretty much down with the 275 package. John has told me its a great kit for the "do it yourself-er"...which will save me some cash and of course its a tun of fun. Now I can still enjoy my Elise during the winter months when we're getting buckets of snow and ice...but what about tuning? In that field I have little experience...and I live in the middle of BFE and am not sure who to trust with my car around the area.
A:
Originally Posted by Mean TT
Give me a break about not skimping money, anyone who would willing part with 25K for a build motor from a celica needs a punch in the face.
I will be in Livermore next weekend dropping off my car for the 340 upgrade, feel free to stop by and give me that punch in the face.
A:
Originally Posted by 05EliseNM
I will be in Livermore next weekend dropping off my car for the 340 upgrade, feel free to stop by and give me that punch in the face.
I'm an engineer for Toyota and frequent the plant where they make the precious 2ZZ....Stephen, since you've been eager to help, if you blow your engine maybe I could sneak one of the premises for you.
And c'mon people...throwin a rod in your celica is nothing compared to F'in up your Elise/Exige...same engine or not. I've been bitten by cheap imitations before. I'm not going to skimp on my baby....and besides the 340 is a lot more than just an engine as Casey mentioned.
A:
Originally Posted by rush
I'm an engineer for Toyota and frequent the plant where they make the precious 2ZZ...
Cool
Where is that?
Is it made by Yamaha or Toyota?
A:
Originally Posted by Patricko
Cool
Where is that?
Is it made by Yamaha or Toyota?
Well its actually made in a couple locations...neither of which are exciting. I have to travel to the West Virginia plant every week. And actually I work in the Automatic Transmission group but I believe for the 2ZZ only the head is supplied by Yamaha and then assembled at the plant
A:
Originally Posted by kaz
Forcedfed is in NorCal, Tripoint is SoCal. Reggie however apparently will personally fly and install if you wine and dine him with ladies and booze.
I think one of the mods should move this thread to the Forced Induction area.
Anyone know Tripoint's URL?
A:
Originally Posted by rush
Well its actually made in a couple locations...neither of which are exciting. I have to travel to the West Virginia plant every week. And actually I work in the Automatic Transmission group but I believe for the 2ZZ only the head is supplied by Yamaha and then assembled at the plant
Are you going to put an AT in your Elise
A:
Originally Posted by rush
I'm an engineer for Toyota and frequent the plant where they make the precious 2ZZ....Stephen, since you've been eager to help, if you blow your engine maybe I could sneak one of the premises for you.
And c'mon people...throwin a rod in your celica is nothing compared to F'in up your Elise/Exige...same engine or not. I've been bitten by cheap imitations before. I'm not going to skimp on my baby....and besides the 340 is a lot more than just an engine as Casey mentioned.
Thanks Ben, but I doubt I will have to take you up on that. I have total confidence in the abilities of ForcedFed and look forward to finally meeting John and Casey face to face. I just wonder if I will ever meet the owner of Forced Fed, Brett Payne. Just kidding John, that really is not funny.
Ben, and anyone else on this board, you are welcome to call me and we can talk about the FF 275 kit, and once I have the 340, we can discuss that too. Also, as I have mentioned before, if you can prove to me that you currently own an Elise or Exige, and that you are not an idiot (IQ below 20), you are welcome to drive my car with the 275 kit (you only have 1 week) or the 340 kit (call me in about 6 weeks).
With the excellent quality/performance/experience and excellent customer service that I have received from ForcedFed, I will back them 100% and continue to post favorable reviews and comments on their products; they deserve it. If you can find a better FI kit out there, or you can do it yourself, then by all means, go for it; no one is holding you back. I will continue to send my money to ForcedFed, and in return get the best aftermarket FI systems for the Elise/Exige.
John, Casey, thank you for your dedication and hard work. See you next weekend.
Stephen
(PM me for my phone number if you are serious about FI for your Elise/Exige)
A:
Originally Posted by Patricko
Are you going to put an AT in your Elise
Actually I refuse to drive an AT. I hate them. And what I hate even more is people who get "sports" cars with ATs. I even got a manual in my Corolla which is obviously my daily driver since I won't bring Elise out to meet the nice folk out in WV...not to mention all the freakin semi-trucks I get stuck behind. But kudos to Lotus and cars that do not have an AT option. And not to be sexist...but if there were an AT option for the Elise...how many old women do you think would be driving around in them because they think they look cute.....oh my blood is starting to boil already.
A:
Originally Posted by rush
Well its actually made in a couple locations...neither of which are exciting. I have to travel to the West Virginia plant every week. And actually I work in the Automatic Transmission group but I believe for the 2ZZ only the head is supplied by Yamaha and then assembled at the plant
WV? there I was thinking you were jetting off to Osaka or somewhere in Japan
A:
Speaking of meeting face to face...Casey, John, you wouldn't perhaps be in need of a young Mechanical Engineer who's obsessed with cars and is tired of driving from Cincinnati to West Virginia every week would you? I...I mean he...would be more than happy to let you test whatever new steroidal power gains you've come up with on my...I mean his car.
But seriously....any job openings?
A:
Originally Posted by Patricko
WV? there I was thinking you were jetting off to Osaka or somewhere in Japan
Actually, on and off, I've spent about 7 months total out of my 2 and a half year employment in Japan. But believe it or not, nearly all Toyota's sold in the US are made in the US.
Oh by the way...without slipping any proprietary info...you wouldn't believe the performance and endurance testing that's done to these engines at the plant. Actually some of it is borderline asinine. If a person drove their car the way that we simulate to pass endurance testing...they should be shot
A:
Originally Posted by rush
Oh by the way...without slipping any proprietary info...you wouldn't believe the performance and endurance testing that's done to these engines at the plant. Actually some of it is borderline asinine. If a person drove their car the way that we simulate to pass endurance testing...they should be shot
You have not seen what I do to my cars
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Originally Posted by 05EliseNM
Thanks Ben, but I doubt I will have to take you up on that. I have total confidence in the abilities of ForcedFed and look forward to finally meeting John and Casey face to face. I just wonder if I will ever meet the owner of Forced Fed, Brett Payne. Just kidding John, that really is not funny.
Ben, and anyone else on this board, you are welcome to call me and we can talk about the FF 275 kit, and once I have the 340, we can discuss that too. Also, as I have mentioned before, if you can prove to me that you currently own an Elise or Exige, and that you are not an idiot (IQ below 20), you are welcome to drive my car with the 275 kit (you only have 1 week) or the 340 kit (call me in about 6 weeks).
With the excellent quality/performance/experience and excellent customer service that I have received from ForcedFed, I will back them 100% and continue to post favorable reviews and comments on their products; they deserve it. If you can find a better FI kit out there, or you can do it yourself, then by all means, go for it; no one is holding you back. I will continue to send my money to ForcedFed, and in return get the best aftermarket FI systems for the Elise/Exige.
John, Casey, thank you for your dedication and hard work. See you next weekend.
Stephen
(PM me for my phone number if you are serious about FI for your Elise/Exige)
Looking forward to meeting you....and when we are all done you can go over the invoice and question where the 19k labeled "stuff" is..lol
A:
Originally Posted by 05EliseNM
I will be in Livermore next weekend dropping off my car for the 340 upgrade, feel free to stop by and give me that punch in the face.
Jesus, I was kidding, I hope you enjoy it. I am sure it will be alot of fun, and if you think it is worth it that is all that matters in the end anyway.