A&Q about Lotus
Q:
I was a passenger in my friends boss's Ferrari F40 a few weeks ago. What a beautiful car However, I noticed a few interesting things from our 1.5 hour ride:
Interior:
The interior of the F40 is not as comfortable as the elise
The interior was less plush than the elise. There was carpet on the dashboard that was starting to come up. The carbon fiber driver seat was broken and the car wasn't any more comfortable than the elise.
Exterior:
The exterior of this car in my opinion is perfect. It is the nicest Ferrari ever made. It looks mean and beautiful at the same time, just like my girlfriend
The car gets even more attention on the street than the elise. People were following us with camcorders.
Performance:
The F40 reminds me of the elise because you really have to push the twin turbo V-8 to make it scream. If you don't really get on the pedal the car doesn't move too fast. But once the twin turbos kick in it takes off like a rocket.
The gate shifter seemed very hard to work smoothly. My friend couldn't get the car into 2nd gear half the time. I am sure that was from lack of experience driving the car and the fact that the car had only 5,000 miles and is 16 years old.
Overall opinion:
The F40 is an awesome car that you can't enjoy very much in the USA because there aren't many roads that you are going to get up to 200 mph.
The car isn't any more fun to drive and is less comfortable than my elise. At least from a passenger's point of view.
After driving in this $500,000 Ferrari I can't understand why some people feel that the have been cheated by Lotus to spend $50,000. The Lotus will out handle the F40, has similar build quality, is more reliable (doesn't require $5,000 service every 5,000 miles), gets 3X the fuel economy and gets almost the same amount of attention on the street.
My drive in the F40 made me realize just how great the elise is for $50,000.
I can now quite my night job that I had to save money for a F40
A:
I appreciate the review, but a little apples to oranges here don't you think? A 16 year old exotic car versus a brand new Elise. I'd like to see a comparison with an Elise vs an Enzo, and even then, the Lotus is out of the Ferrari's league. Hell, compare the F430 to the Elise. There's no comparison, really. At least the model years are close. Just my two cents.
A:
Originally Posted by Aruna
I appreciate the review, but a little apples to oranges here don't you think? A 16 year old exotic car versus a brand new Elise. I'd like to see a comparison with an Elise vs an Enzo, and even then, the Lotus is out of the Ferrari's league. Hell, compare the F430 to the Elise. There's no comparison, really. At least the model years are close. Just my two cents.
I don't completely agree. How much is the going rate for a 16 year old F40? He was commenting on "perceived value."
A:
My only reason for wrting the review for the F40 is to tell people on this forum that the elise has similar usable performance as a $500,000 supercar. It is true that the F40 is 16 years old but the car still has better performance than 99% of cars built today. I believe that the elise is a better bang for the buck than a F430 or enzo because they are again cars that you can;t use to their fullest potential in the US. It seems to me like a few Enzo's have been split into two by owners who try to explore their cars potential limits. I have also heard of an F430 that burst into flames because of a loose fuel line. My window rattles and my door shakes but my car is still in 1 piece and it isn't on fire.
A:
16 year old car on or not. Thanks for the review!
A:
you can compare a kia to an elise, but it doesn't mean crap
A:
I think it is a great comparison. I love the Ferrari too, but how much seat time do people actually get it them? Does anyone know a Ferrari owner who really puts 10-12K miles on his car in a year?
The Elise is WAY more of a daily driver than a Ferrari, and that counts for a lot, IMHO.
A:
Originally Posted by EldersburgElise
I think it is a great comparison. I love the Ferrari too, but how much seat time do people actually get it them? Does anyone know a Ferrari owner who really puts 10-12K miles on his car in a year?
The Elise is WAY more of a daily driver than a Ferrari, and that counts for a lot, IMHO.
Well that is the sad thing about most Ferrari owners. Most are not real driving enthusiasts and have a garage queen to fuel an already sizable ego. I would drive that F40 into the ground. Maybe crash it a couple times doing fast laps around a track, then sell whatever was left when I grew tired of it and buy something else. The garage queen thing drives me nuts! If you can buy a 500k car cash, why are you worried about resale? Why, why why!
A:
Originally Posted by EldersburgElise
I think it is a great comparison. I love the Ferrari too, but how much seat time do people actually get it them? Does anyone know a Ferrari owner who really puts 10-12K miles on his car in a year?
The Elise is WAY more of a daily driver than a Ferrari, and that counts for a lot, IMHO.
actually i know a few that puts 10-12K miles on their ferrari and I am not talking about them older 308 328's either.
How would the elise be way more of a daily driver than a ferrari? Ferrari has more room, more trunk space, better stereo system, and more low end power. If i had the funds, i would daily drive a ferrai like i do my exige.
A:
Originally Posted by joe13531
Well that is the sad thing about most Ferrari owners. Most are not real driving enthusiasts and have a garage queen to fuel an already sizable ego. I would drive that F40 into the ground. Maybe crash it a couple times doing fast laps around a track, then sell whatever was left when I grew tired of it and buy something else. The garage queen thing drives me nuts! If you can buy a 500k car cash, why are you worried about resale? Why, why why!
the same could be said about lotus owners
A:
I see more Lambos and Ferraris than Elises by far in my neighborhood, it is getting to the point that I see 3 and 4 Lambos a day on my way to work.
And on weekends downtown is litterally an exotic parade, but still I think we have 3 or 4 Elise's in our city? Me, Larry, Alan and some kid I see in a yellow sport with a spoiler on the back.
A:
Originally Posted by SAElise
I don't completely agree. How much is the going rate for a 16 year old F40? He was commenting on "perceived value."
I'm playing devil's advocate here, of course, but we're on a Lotus board, so our perceived value for something like the F40 might not be as high as someone on FerrariChat. I think the premium that you'd pay for an F40 (400 grand + over a new Elise) is worth it. Simply because of the criteria of the F40.. It's loud, obnoxious, very raw, and limited. To be a stickler, it's a F40, which to Ferrari racing cogniscenti, is gold (probably the F40LM more so, but they are even rarer). Again, the review is great, I'm just commenting that the context of both cars is slightly different when you visit different boards. I think 50 grand for an Elise is worth it. I also think the F40 is worth it's $400,000+ premium, even if it's 16 years old.
I think the newer Ferrari's (F430, 599,612, etc) are much more comfortable than previous ones, and could be used as daily drivers. Their reliability has improved from days past. The one owner of the Enzo that crashed while doing a run for charity had over 30 thousand miles on his car, so there are definitely people out there!
A:
It seems a valid comparison to me, especially considering an F40 still costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, and is in many people's opinion one of Ferrari's best cars ever. They're both very spartan cars, and made with similar design ideas and purposes in mind, making them more like each other than like nearly any other cars.
An Elise with a supercharger (or an Exige S?) would come close in every respect except sheer cost and the Ferrari mystique, and the one time I was in an F40 I couldn't help but compare it to an Elise.
John
A:
I agree with Joe that there is no reason to have a car that is covered in your garage. I drive my elise almost everyday. I am sure that the toyota motor is good for 200-300K miles. I figure that I can drive the car almost everyday for the next 20 years before I have to rebuild the engine If I had a Ferrari that I put 250k miles on I would require 50 services in that time frame @$5,000/service or $250,000. I figure my lotus will require about 1/10 that amount of service with the same amount of fun.
My friends boss is breaking even with his F40 because he only has 5,000 miles on it so he saved $250,000 in service, however the car depreciated $250,000. He probably should have used it as a daily commuter so he could enjoy it. He also has 15 other Ferrari garage queens with less than 10,000 miles
A:
Originally Posted by Imolas54
the same could be said about lotus owners
Ouch...you're not serious are you? Cause it's a cheap car and that would befuddle me. Please say it ain't so...please?
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My friends boss is breaking even with his F40 because he only has 5,000 miles on it so he saved $250,000 in service, however the car depreciated $250,000.
I have no idea what the F40 sold for when it was new, but I would think that it would have started to apreciate.
A:
I have no idea what the elise would cost to service up to 300K miles. I would assume that you might need a water pump and new headlight housings after the bulbs burn through the originals, probably not $25k. I am sure that I will smile up to 300K miles as long as I don't get killed when the insulated headliner from my softtop falls down in front of my head while going around a corner And if that happens I will die with a smile
A:
Originally Posted by joe13531
Well that is the sad thing about most Ferrari owners. Most are not real driving enthusiasts and have a garage queen to fuel an already sizable ego. I would drive that F40 into the ground. Maybe crash it a couple times doing fast laps around a track, then sell whatever was left when I grew tired of it and buy something else. The garage queen thing drives me nuts! If you can buy a 500k car cash, why are you worried about resale? Why, why why!
I totally agree with your feelings about garage queens.
However....
The REASON some people can buy a 500k car with cash is precisely BECAUSE they worry about things like that. If their personality allowed them to just toss money away without thought, they never would have reached a point where they would have that much money.
xtn
A:
The Enzo is trying to get the performance of the F40 with improved drivability and user friendliness. The Enzo is probably a little less expensive when new if adjusted for inflation. The F40 was definitely a high water mark for Ferrari in looks and performance. The F50 was slower and not as pretty. 16 years later the Enzo is faster but an aquired taste visually. I will bet you could finance an Elise for the ongoing price of upkeep on an F40. A mechanic friend of mine works of a few F40's and says they are fast but not that fast. Not in the league with a 996tt with a few mods. The Mclaren F1 has done much better holding its value.
A:
Originally Posted by cbelon
...He also has 15 other Ferrari garage queens with less than 10,000 miles
This would explain the low milage! I'd be impressed if he managed 1,000 miles per car each year!
While some may not understand this level of ownership I think it is great that there are people out there who can own and enjoy them (and clearly demonstrate them to those of us who can't) - without this level of ownership Ferrari couldn't build so many cars... which may describe another company I know of