A&Q about Lotus
Q:
that car should be a parts car..
A:
Originally Posted by babak
Although there are plenty of S1's around 10 years later. So the track record of the Chassis is quite good.
Additionally, they bonding used in the construction of the chassis has been used in aircraft for many more years without trouble.
They also did "stress testing" of the chassis during the development subjecting the chassis to temperature, environmental, and load extremes (I remember reading about it 10 years ago or so), and the end result was that the aluminum chassis of the Elise has no limit to it's "life cycle", and in fact should outlast a typical steel chassis.
So, yea, there will be Elises at car auctions in 2020, and in 2050, etc...
Originally Posted by xtn
Everybody says it can't be repaired, but quite frankly somebody with a good shop, engineering know-how, and the time and inclination to do a good job COULD do a fully functional and serviceable repair. Now it wouldn't be the SAME, but it would properly function.
Sure, you can do anything with enough time and money. But it would be far, far cheaper to buy the new chassis and swap parts than to try to repair it.
The best analogy that I can think of would be a typical, cheap aluminum lawn chair. It's strong enough and will last for years. But if you bend the leg, that's it. Sure, you can straighten it - but if you look at it sideways, it will bend again. You could add a new tube over the outside and somehow manage to attach it to the bent parts of the leg, but it won't be right, and would probably fail again in the near future. And the fix would probably cost more than just trashing that chair and buying a new one at WalMart...
A:
He lists the title as "other" wouldn't this be a salvage title, maybe he doesn't want to use the word?
A:
Originally Posted by teekster
Mound is only a few mminutes from here. I'll have to drive around and check it out. Poor Lotus
The pics looked more like Titanium than Silver to me, and I thought this might be you, Teek. Happy it's not. Sad it's somebody at all. Looks like there's a yellow one next to it in some of those photos. Not me.
A:
Put it on the straightener, glue it up and it'll run terrific!
Could be Transio's next car. Patricko would buy it but the pedals aren't right.
A:
Originally Posted by EldersburgElise
If you filled it with seed it would function properly as a bird feeder.
A:
Ok, thanks a lot for detailed explanation!
A:
Originally Posted by MyElise
... Patricko would buy it but the pedals aren't right.
Nothing a Sector111 HnT pad would not fix
A:
Originally Posted by Patricko
Nothing a Sector111 HnT pad would not fix
Actually, the thickness of the aluminum may help with the repair if added to the front suspension mounts. A significantly better use for the product.
A:
Originally Posted by Patricko
Nothing a Sector111 HnT pad would not fix
Actually, the thickness of the aluminum may help with the repair if added to the front suspension mounts. A significantly better use for the product.
Are you still receiving $0.50 every time you mention a Sector111 product?
A:
Originally Posted by MyElise
Are you still receiving $0.50 every time you mention a Sector111 product?
$2.50 now
How much do you get every time you put Lotus down
To your credit you do seem to have toned it down since Hass became indefensible but there was a time (I am not going to bother quoting your posts) when you where the #1 Lotus Hater
A:
Originally Posted by Patricko
How much do you get every time you put Lotus down
To your credit you do seem to have toned it down since Hass became indefensible but there was a time (I am not going to bother quoting your posts) when you where the #1 Lotus Hater
Sorry Pat but I just call them as I see them. Unfortunately, Lotus missed a few things in the first go around. But no way was I going to put a wood block on the brake pedal of a $50k car when there is a right way to make the brakes feel correct and be in the right position. They did manage to hear me and fix it....and they sold you a new car. I too talked at length with the Lotus boys when they were here. Off the record they own up to the mistakes and the mods to fix them. There's a lot of corporate BS that has to get shoveled between the way it should be and the way it is and eventually some of it gets fixed. I wave the flag plenty, thank you. But they don't pay me enough to keep quiet.
BTW - Attention moderators: I consider that last post to be a "personal attack" by a "one trick pony".
A:
I don't recall which Elise auction I had on my WATCH list, but one of them just got shut down ... this was email I got from EBAY
"Please be aware that the following auction-style listing:
Item Number - 110036167075
Item Title - Lotus : Elise
has been removed by eBay for violating of one or more of our policies. Any offers or bids placed on this auction-style listing are now null and void. Because the auction was ended, you as a bidder are not required to complete the transaction. Since this is a listing violation, the seller is free to relist the item in the proper format. Should you wish to do so, you are free to bid on the item again if it is relisted."
I wonder what the violation of policy was hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm???
A:
Oddly enough I believe a car like this can be "repaired", and probably not too expensively either. Would I buy it? Would I drive it? probably not.
Being involved personally in the resuscitation of three completely salvaged cars at this point; two S2000s and one Acura TL (I drive the TL daily now). I am under the impression that with enough time and skill (note I did not put money in there) any vehicle can be repaired.
Now for speculation... Is the aluminum too thin to weld? Well, I can name a pile of bicycle manufactures that would beg to differ, they weld aluminum that is far more brittle and far thinner all day long. How about separation of the glue? Sure, that could be a problem if not addressed however, the glue is available so you could always separate the piece, weld, re-glue.
The real issue is that the technology is scary. None of us are accustomed to glue together aluminum cars. I've seen how they repair jet fighters which have a much more similar construction to the Elise than an American car and they have to operate in three dimensions. If a broken landing gear mount makes for a totalled aircraft don't tell that to the pilot that just had a repair welded, glued and riveted back on.
So 1 more vote that it CAN be repaired. It will probably be stronger too
Could I repair it? No. Would I repair it? No. Would I buy it after it was repaired? Probably not. Is it worth repairing? depends on how bad you want it I just think it can be done!
A:
Originally Posted by Trueweb
Now for speculation... Is the aluminum too thin to weld? Well, I can name a pile of bicycle manufactures that would beg to differ, they weld aluminum that is far more brittle and far thinner all day long. How about separation of the glue? Sure, that could be a problem if not addressed however, the glue is available so you could always separate the piece, weld, re-glue.
The loads that a bicycle experiences are entirely different than what a front suspension mount will experience. That aluminum is too thin to weld, for the loads that it will experience. Welding would change the heat tempering of the aluminum and it would not be as strong.
The glue is not readily available. The chassis is "glued" together had "baked" in an oven at relatively high temperatures to cure the glue. The heat from welding may or may not affect the cured strength of the joints. Room temperature curing "glue" is not as strong as what is used on the Elise. The only real way to re-bond parts to the chassis is to strip the chassis bare, bond the parts and bake it in the oven. At that point, you may as well simply replace the damaged chassis - you've already done the hard work.
As for aircraft being "glued" back together - that's apples and oranges. They are designed to be repairable. Parts can be removed and new parts bonded into place. It's also more economical to spend the time and money - even millions to repair a 20 - 50 million (or more) dollar aircraft. Unfortunately, it isn't worth spending $30,000 for parts and labor to repair the Elise. It would make for a good project for a do it yourselfer - the labor is the major cost of swapping out the chassis for a new one.
So, yes, it is possible to "repair" the chassis (replace it actually), but it is not cost effective to do so.
A:
I didn't realize the glue was heat cured, I do still believe a skilled aluminum welder could work on much of the aluminum on the Elise, regardless of the potential lack of strength post weld.
Mark my words... in the next 5 years there will be a good number of Lotus Elises, some without salvage titles, driving on "repaired" chassis.
...Unfortunately, that was my point...
A:
Originally Posted by Trueweb
...Now for speculation... Is the aluminum too thin to weld? ...
The problem with welding aluminum is that you have a huge knock down in strength in the heat affected zone. For example welding 6061-T6 you get a 40-60% reduction in strength depending on the material thickness.
Heat treating will restore some strength but you'd have to heat treat the whole chassis. The heat treating process would destroy all the glue bonds.
The gauges of aluminum on the Elise were not selected with a weld knock down factor taken into account so there may not be enough reserve strength if you were to weld it - translation: it may break. For comparison, the Renault Spyder came out about the same time as the Elise S1 and has a welded aluminum chassis. They had to use thicker gauge aluminum to obtain enough strength at the welds and ended up with a car ~400 lb heavier than the S1 Elise.
With bicycles they have obviously designed them taking into account the weld strength knock down otherwise they would be breaking all the time. Heat treating a bicycle frame after welding is a little simpler as well.
Cheers,
Michael
A:
It's not me either ... mine is magnetic blue ... but I did notice something else that bothered me a bit on my car and you can see it on a few of the pictures here too ... there's one part on the front wheel hub that's just entirely rust. It's not as though it's going to fall off or fall apart, but mine is the same way.
Is that normal? Or will I be replacing those parts in a few years?
In the auction you can see it in picture 2 of 7 and 7 of 7 (especially on the passenger hub on pic 7)
This thing could easily be a parts car. If nothing else it looks as though both the super-expensive door hinges and structures are intact. I'm glad to know it's not the teeksters car ... a neighbor of mine said they saw a black 2006 Elise crashed within a mile of my place ... I didn't know who that was either, but it was about 4 months ago.
A:
Originally Posted by Obsidian
there's one part on the front wheel hub that's just entirely rust. It's not as though it's going to fall off or fall apart, but mine is the same way.
Is that normal? Or will I be replacing those parts in a few years?
I think it's normal. When my father and I had it up on a lift I noticed the rust color and pointed it out. He (40+ years metalworking and auto repair) didn't seem concerned by it, so I'm assuming it's not a problem.
A:
Originally Posted by MyElise
BTW - Attention moderators: I consider that last post to be a "personal attack" by a "one trick pony".
Patrick's post seems less of a personal attack than your post that he was replying to. Of course, that's just my objective opinion... if you consider it a personal attack, then let's ban the bastard.