A&Q about 350Z
Q:
has anyone used Greddy's Twin Turbo? I was wondering if it was worth its market price.
1981 280zx Turbo
Project Car
A:
APS>Greddy
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Road & Track Executive Editor, Richard Homan 1994
"Give me a 300ZX Twin Turbo and a three-day
weekend in the Sierra Nevadas, and i'll come back
with the meaning of life."
A:
Wait until APS gets their CARB approval. Then you'll see a lot of 350TT's out there. I can hardly wait. WOOT !!!
"Racing is life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting"
Quote - Steve McQueen
'04 350Z Silverstone 6spd
Previous owner of 240, 280, and 300 Z's
A:
LOL! yup yup... it's gonna be so common one person will approach another with his/her 350Z and find out they don't have TT and ask "Where the he77 have you been, in a cave?"
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A:
called APS. Over $8,000. Gulp!
A:
Oh Dash it all .... 25K ??? Might as well sell it and buy the 2006 Z06 Vette.
You guy really think it's a time bomb? I know a few people that are really talking up the APS TT setup and said just to wait until they get the CARB approval. I wouldn't mind 6-7K. But if it doesn't get me over 500HP without blowing up. Why Bother ?
Bummed ...............
"Racing is life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting"
Quote - Steve McQueen
'04 350Z Silverstone 6spd
Previous owner of 240, 280, and 300 Z's
A:
Mr. More Power.
I will try and address your response to my post:
"My question to you and Doug is, what objective knowledge do you base your opinions of the APS systems upon?"
Your Conclusion Jump: I am making a statement about forced induction.
Fact: I asked Doug at Crawford Z some questions to shed some light on the Twin Turbo setups from an "experts" perspective. I don’t really have an opinion on the APS system per se. I was relaying what info had been passed to me. That would have been clear if you read my post more carefully. I’m sure Doug at Crawford would love to talk to you about the details of why he thinks turbos are dangerous for the engine.
"Seems like y'all have some general opinions or heard rumors on forced induction and you're just lumping all these turbo kits together."
Your Conclusion Jump: We are only speaking about the APS system.
Fact: The title of this thread is 350Z Twin Turbo, not APS Twin Turbo. And the initial question referenced the Greddy system. Doug responded to questions about forced induction in general on the VQ, a know killer of high compression engines.
Fact: Many TTs 350zs have blown up using various systems.
"Correct me if I'm wrong but Crawford mostly goes the naturally aspirated route and it is no surprise at all that they steer people that way..."
Your Conclusion Jump: Doug is dissuading people from turbos in an effort to sell something.
Fact: You like to jump to conclusions.
Moving on...
"Tuan in IL is running his APS twin turbo 350Z at over 500 hp at the wheels on a pure stock engine internals 350Z. He has been doing this for over 10,000 miles now with no problemos."
I’m not sure what to make of that statement. Nobody recommends doing that. Not APS, not Kyle at SGP Racing (APS dealer), not even you.. so. I’m not sure how its relevant here, unless your saying that Tuan is really lucky. If I ran 21 PSI on my stock turbos for 10,000 miles, Id tell everyone. Its the guys that blow their motors who usually remain silent.
Finally, you seemed to miss the heart of what Doug was saying and perhaps I should reiterate that: You cant take advantage of the power the kits offer without rebuilding the engine. People who invest thousands of dollars in upgrades capable of 600hp are going to be hard pressed to remain at 380-400 (SGP recommended) and are more inclined to "turn up the boost" and that’s when problems occur.
A:
Zazupilot: i don't wanna get in the middle of this but you said here:
quote:
I asked him about the APS and similar forced induction systems. 1st words out of his mouth were, "Do you want to blow your engine up?"
Fuel delivery is a problem, he says. Ok - so APS and other systems offer complete kits. Now you have fuel, but you cant take advantage of the power the kits offer, so you need new rods. Now the pistons cant do it. New pistons. Then you blow your head gasket. What about a cracked block? Doug says he hasnt seen those yet, but it wouldnt surprise him. He has heard that the APS kit can be lacking and that, while he dosent recommend turbos for the VQ35DE, if HE were to do it - it would be nothing less than a MOTEC system and about a $25,000 additional investment.
end quote...
More Power's inclusion of Tuan and his overcharged Z and it's reliability is to show that someone HAS in fact turn the kit up beyond recommended settings and has STILL had no problems...
And now YOU EVEN QUOTED Doug in the first sentence of the above quoted remark... and what you quoted from him sounds similar to ANY SALESPERSON... MAKE NO MISTAKE!!! He is in a business and what whould his business be WITHOUT customers... he WILL tell you that the sky is PURPLE if it would sell you to him... don't get me wrong... NA is definately good reliability... but at the price YOU said " About a $25,000 additional investment." More Power is saying to get to that power that Doug would want you could spend less than half of that with APS WHICH HAS PROVEN RELIABILITY and save yourself the extra $12,000 that Doug wants you to spend on him...
Do what you want dude... have fun doing it... just trying to clear some stuff up...
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C.F. Nismo Wing
Shorty Antenna (Stolen!!! Thanks alot!)
Kicker Solo Baric L7 1200w
I don't think, I know...
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Post Edited (Jun 23, 3:21pm)
A:
staticivi03: no offense, but that cleared nothing up. If Doug sounds like and anti-turbo "salesperson", then "More Power" is certainly an APS one. Just because he is in business dosent automatically mean he is unethical. You may be right.. but I think its unfair to make that assumption from his comments.
But I know Doug, and while I cant speak for him, I believe he gave me his honest opinion. He knows me and my car. He knows that I will never buy a 350, so he has no incentive to tell me something not true.
The reason I posted was to addres titancrusher1's question about TT 350's... which have had a spotted history. Specifically he asked about the Greddy system.
I am sure the APS is a fine system. I never said it wasnt. Please dont put words in my mouth... now.. enough semantics. Lets get back to the topic: 350Z Twin Turbos !
A:
no problem Pilot: by no means do i disrespect doug or yourself...
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Chrome Silver '03 Touring -MT-
C.F. Nismo Wing
Shorty Antenna (Stolen!!! Thanks alot!)
Kicker Solo Baric L7 1200w
I don't think, I know...
Well, I don't think you know either
A:
I appreciate that staticivi03....
now back to the issue (and I apologize for "dominating" this thread) feel free to brush me off, as I know that I am relatively new to this tech forum.. but I am curious.. If the Greddy system is so dangerous (Kyle at SGP describes it as a "tuner kit" and not for the amateur tuner) then what makes the APS system so complete? It cant just be fuel delivery.. .. I guess the better questions is.. what makes the Greddy system so INcomplete?
A:
Don't underestimate the importance of the fuel delivery part. It isn't 'just'...it's crucial, and the major area that others drop the ball. Lubrication, detonation, are others of course....
Believe only what you think, not what you feel.
A:
Mr. More Power, thanks for your "verbose" reply.
I think its obvious that you and I, while representing two sides of an argument, are certainly committed. Consequently, I am very involved with forced induction, I guess you could say, as my 95 Twin Turbo is my daily driver! I agree my short "interview" was certainly not an all-encompassing exposé on turbos and the 350Z, and shouldn’t be considered as such. I never meant it to be that. I certainly hope nobody else thinks it is. Additionally, I would never profess to be an expert on the subject. That’s usually while I ask people in the automotive racing and developing scene lots of questions. That’s also why I'm on forums likes these - to learn and share knowledge. I read allot too, and I too am a "safety" guy - which was kind of in line with the spirit of my original post as well. I have recently started a "safety-first" string of threads in the 90-96 forum to combat erroneous data involving common bolt-on upgrades. Its my primary concern. I blow up my engine and I'm WALKING!
I’m no geezer like you (ha ha), but I'm no spring chicken either. My background is almost exclusively theoretical, so these "hands-on" topics really give me a thrill these days. I've just started reading Corky Bell's Maximum Boost and I hope it will help me get to the next level. While this is my 1st turbo car, I certainly hope it isn’t the last. Thanks for your insights in this thread. I almost NEVER mean to disrespect anyone on these forums. I hope we can perhaps learn from each other in the future.
Post Edited (Jun 24, 1:32pm)
A:
Hey Zazupilot . Nice post. Sorry if I came on a little strong, but I love 350Zs and forced induction. God help me, but I do love them so. ha. And for what it's worth, I do have a lot of respect and admiration for Crawford and the products they put out. I just fervently disagree with those comments of Doug regarding forced induction and 350Zs. I too never mean disrespect toward anyone who tries to discuss these things reasonably and I try to reflect that in my posts even when I disagee with someone.
I have nothing but admiration for 300ZX TTs as well. Buddy of mine has an HKS TT Z32 and it rocks!
Small world! Another friend of mine who is one of the best forced induction experts on the east coast at one time worked for and was mentored by...Corky Bell. He (my friend who used to work for Corky) is the HKS proseries dealer that prepared and sponsored me with my prior turbo car. I very much recommend everyone reading Corky Bell every chance they get. Great reading material for forced induction.
We both agree on the safety issue. That is why I love APS. Their kits cost a bit more, but they have all those little details and fine tuning for great performance and great reliability for our 350Zs.
Take care and if you are anywhere near Hagerstown, MD, bring your Z32 TT and I'll bring my APS TT 350Z (completed hopefully this summer) and we'll defend the Z car flag at Mason Dixon Dragway near Hagerstown, MD. I am pure stock (right down to the air filter) right now with my 350Z and running 14.1 sec. qtrs. Hopefull my 350Z will be doing some HEAVY breathing and running low 12s or high 11 sec qtrs by the end of this summer. I am working on it! A bad day racing is better than a good day at work! ha. Take care.
Post Edited (Jun 25, 8:54pm)
A:
Oh, by the way, 350Zs with the both APS turbo kits should pass smog tests if you leave the stock catalytic converters in place. Even before the APS TT gets carb aproved. Which it probably will. But you should be able to pass the smog tests, when the time comes for testing, regardless.
A:
is there anything i could do to get a ever so slightly bit throaty exhaust note from my z i have factory exhaust and plan on getting APSs true dual but even from the video demo they have on their website the exhaust note just doesn't quite sound how i want it... sounds good though... any suggestions?
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Chrome Silver '03 Touring -MT-
C.F. Nismo Wing
Shorty Antenna (Stolen!!! Thanks alot!)
Kicker Solo Baric L7 1200w
I don't think, I know...
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A:
More Power - I appreciate your information. I am in California. That CARB approval will make it a breeze to pass smog here. So, I want to wait until the fall and see what happens.
Keep us updated with the install. I would like to get your impressions after a couple of months of use.
Either way. late this year or earlier next year I plan on going APS unless JWT comes through with something better.
There is just to much in development now to lock myself yet .... ;)
"Racing is life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting"
Quote - Steve McQueen
'04 350Z Silverstone 6spd
Previous owner of 240, 280, and 300 Z's
A:
I just talked with a guy from a performance shop today he also suggested a larger diameter piping would help also... Thanks alot More Power...
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Chrome Silver '03 Touring -MT-
C.F. Nismo Wing
Shorty Antenna (Stolen!!! Thanks alot!)
Kicker Solo Baric L7 1200w
I don't think, I know...
Well, I don't think you know either