how to calculate camber change when wheels are turned?

A&Q about 350Z
Q:

is it possible to estimate the amount of camber change from known caster and other suspension / steering geometry?

here's the geometry info:



a supplemental question: how would one go about figuring out camber change in bump, what information is needed?
A:

Its all advanced calculations, its would be much easier to just go measure it.
A:

I am interested in being able to predict the degree of camber change when I adjust my caster... I don't have the caster adjust capability right now, and would like to see how much better my situation will be if i do decide to acquire that technology...

to that end, i would like to learn to make these advanced calculations.
A:

Go to a library and pick up a book on advanced suspension design and theory. There are other things you have to take into consideration too such as road conditions witch will vary the frequency rate of the struts/shocks; bushing deflection; wheel/tire design to see how much footprint your going to have under those figures and such.
A:

so, you are saying it is not possible to perform the calculation i requested with the information i provided?
A:

Well you didnt give any geometry, that just lists factory specs.
A:

from my limited knowledge of the things involved, I felt it may be possible to calculate the camber change from the caster and the steering axis inclination values.
A:

PS: if any other info is needed, please let me know, i may be able to measure it or dig it up.
A:

You have to know everything; upper and lower arm lengths, kingpin inclination, camber, caster, IC both from the side and front. You can calculate it, but there are programs that do it far easier.

As far as books on the subject, there is one that is considered the absolute best. I have it and read all 860 pages. Race Car Vehicle Dynamics by Milliken. Its out of print, but Amazon can locate a used one for you.
A:

ooh, programs, i like the sound of that, anything recommended in particular?
A:

Not counting the Index and the References, it has only 839 pages.
Stop exaggerating, for cripes sake!

It looks like you may be able to get it here:



a supplemental question: how would one go about figuring out camber change in bump, what information is needed?
A:

Its all advanced calculations, its would be much easier to just go measure it.
A:

I am interested in being able to predict the degree of camber change when I adjust my caster... I don't have the caster adjust capability right now, and would like to see how much better my situation will be if i do decide to acquire that technology...

to that end, i would like to learn to make these advanced calculations.
A:

Go to a library and pick up a book on advanced suspension design and theory. There are other things you have to take into consideration too such as road conditions witch will vary the frequency rate of the struts/shocks; bushing deflection; wheel/tire design to see how much footprint your going to have under those figures and such.
A:

so, you are saying it is not possible to perform the calculation i requested with the information i provided?
A:

Well you didnt give any geometry, that just lists factory specs.
A:

from my limited knowledge of the things involved, I felt it may be possible to calculate the camber change from the caster and the steering axis inclination values.
A:

PS: if any other info is needed, please let me know, i may be able to measure it or dig it up.
A:

You have to know everything; upper and lower arm lengths, kingpin inclination, camber, caster, IC both from the side and front. You can calculate it, but there are programs that do it far easier.

As far as books on the subject, there is one that is considered the absolute best. I have it and read all 860 pages. Race Car Vehicle Dynamics by Milliken. Its out of print, but Amazon can locate a used one for you.
A:

ooh, programs, i like the sound of that, anything recommended in particular?
A:

Not counting the Index and the References, it has only 839 pages.
Stop exaggerating, for cripes sake!

It looks like you may be able to get it here:


A:

I have the large print version



I used to use this RCC program, but I forget if it does steer stuff or not. Do a search on the 'net for "suspension calculator" and you'll turn up tons.

Edit: Forgot to say; if you click on the free trial version at the above site it takes you to a dowload page where you can get a suspension analyzer and a buttload of other trials.
A:

this looks like a good book, the libary has one, I will check it out... The other, thinner books i've looked into seem to contradict each other, so i don't have much faith in them...
A:

Reading is good and there are many excellant books out there but I haven't found one that will actually help you set up a suspension from scratch.
The Performance Trends Software is excellant and this is what I use when developing front suspension designs. But, like was said earlier, you have to have ALL of the suspension points including inner and outer tie rod points, upper and lower ball stud points, inner and outer control arm points, stab bar points if applicable, wheel/tire sizes and offsets and shock attachments.
Running through these calculations, even by hand, will require all of this info. Once the data is plugged into the program though it is a simple matter for it to give you any number of calculations at any given suspension deflection.
As good as it is, the software can only use what you plug into it so be sure your points are correct.
Copyright ? 2006 - 2010 www.cargather.com