A&Q about 350Z
Q:
I have a Dodge, Strat. 02
That just recently got distroyed because of an old timeing belt. Heres my problem.
3Weeks ago, I took it into a Dodge Machnic to have them look at it. I specifically asked them to Check the Timeing Belt. Did it need replacement?
They told me and my husband. No, it looks fine.
that was three weeks ago. Yesturday the timeing belt (surprise surpris) broke. When I went back in and told them I refused to pay 2,000 dollars in damages because they told me it was fine. They then told me there was no way for them to tell if a timeing belt was getting old because there was no fraying.
They never once told me that because of the milage on the car (105,507) that we Should replace the belt. Nor did they tell me that they could not tell if the belt was old or not.
So in other words..they told me they checked a belt and said was fine that they couldnt check and say if fine or not to begin with.
I feel they they are dicking me and my husband around hard core.
So ive come to you for some help!
Can ANYONE tell me if it is possible to check a timeing belt to see if it needs replacing? And if so, how is it done? and if not..then can we some how hold the dealership responcible for telling us it was fine when they really had no way of telling it was fine or not?
Thank you so much for you help!
A:
my honest advice; buy a Ford..
A:
I wish I had at this point..but that doesnt help you now. Got any advice?
A:
always there word aginst yours and to me it seems like all you can do is pay to have your car fixed...or file a complaint to the gm and then to dodge
A:
remind me how a snapped timing belt "destroyed" it. the worst i've known to come from a snapped timing belt is off timing, but that doesn't really do much because with a snapped timing belt an engine won't run.
do mean the valvetrain was damaged?
A:
Usually timing belts show no noticeable signs before breaking. They can check for freying and cracking, but this does not nessassairly show the integrity of the belt. Bottom line is, as shitty as it may sound- there is nothing you can do except pay to have it fixed.
A:
Broke timing belt, valves collide with pistons, valves bend, pistons damaged, all sorts of chios. How the fuck did you become and "advisor"?
A:
Looks like it. ..I was reading up on timeing belts.
I just wish they had Said Something about it should be changed around 100,000 miles. Or that they really Couldnt tell us because a timebelt Doesnt give any signs of breaking. (at least then i would have gotten it changed just in case).
I just hate that i paid 30 bucks to get it checked and told it was fine only to have it break 3 weeks later when they Honestly couldnt tell me if the damn thing was fine or not to begin with... and now having to shell out over 1,000 to 2,000 dollars on the thing when i could have saved myself with only 4 - 500 dollars earler. its really crappy how they did us in my opinion. I feel like they BSed us even still. Shouldnt there be Something that can be done? or at least something stating that they have to tell us that they cant Honestly check a timing belt..i mean eesh..how many ppl who know nothing about cars have they pulled this on? its like a money schame.
A:
i know that can happen, i've just never seen it, then again, within my friends/family timing belts/chains are changed every 20-30k miles, to prevent that kind of thing.
i'm not sure if that's on a personal or curious level...
its because i help out a lot around the forums.
A:
in reality all you had to do was read your owners manual for that information...that's how i found out when to service my transfer case and differentials on my Land Cruiser...but all that info was supplied to you when you got the car (or should have) and i can't stress enough about getting a Haynes or Chiltons manual for your car...but truth be told, fault lies on you even though the mechanic may have contributed slightly by not relaying some info...but that's if he did check the timing belt at all
A:
only if the pistons are not non-interference pistons. a lot of cars use non interference pistons so that if the timing belt breaks, all you get is screwed up timing. this prevents you from running super high compression, but since most cars dont anyway, there is no real loss
By not being a hot-head like yourself
nobody knows everything about everything.
Again, non-interference pistons are becoming more popular, so this is an issue that is, well, becoming less of an issue.
not sure if that would help much either.
then again...
i'm a chevy guy myself.
A:
A broken timing belt can still cause piston/valve damage on a non-interferience engine- I'v seen it happen. And sence it is an interferience engine your point is ... well pointless.
A:
If the car isn't under any warranty, then the repair cost is completely in your hands. You own the car, in which case you should have the owners manual and therefore know when the timing belt should be changed.
I agree, the mechanic should have informed you that at around 105K miles the timing belt needed to be changed, but that doesn't mean they can be held responsible for your break down. Bottom line is: no warranty = your fault
---
P.S. Are you sure that the engine/valvetrain is damaged? If you have the 2.4L engine, then I believe it's a non-interference type motor, in which case you just have to replace the belt (the engine is fine). If you have the V6 engine however, then you'll have to replace the whole motor.
A:
A little tidbit I've gained from working at a new-car dealership garage, they will tell you anything to make money... seriously. Some are fine, but many are all about the cash.
Let's take this from the garage's perspective. You bring your car to the dodge tech and this conversation happens:
You: could you check my timing belt and see if it needs replacing?
tech: sure, that's gonna cost $30
you: Ok, do it. I dont wanna break anything.
The first problem is that you requested a service that is not part of Chrysler's prescribed thing. It goes on the receipt as "customer requests..." What the tech SHOULD have told you is that checking a belt doesn't do anything. A timing belt doesn't usually fray, crack, or show any signs of wear. It just gets done stretching and it breaks. Instead, he probably said to himself that its easy money. That's two hours labor on my paycheck that I can get done in 45 minutes. So he did. And he probably said to himself, "the customer asked me to check the timing belt, and.... yup, its a timing belt." Then at the very least he should have informed you of the 100k mile interval, but he didn't. Why? Becuase that's more dollar signs... big ones. If you bust an engine, that's serious cash.
I got "let go" because I didn't fit that mold. My buddy was making $120k a year and I was making $20-30k. The secret is upselling. You come in for an oil change and the oil change tech tells you your brakes are close to being worn out. Then halfway through the brake job the brake tech says he can't fix the brakes without new rotors and calipers, and also notices an oil pan leak so he tries to upsell a leak fix. A sucker will go in for a $30 oil change and come out $600 later having had things fixed that didn't really NEED work. We used to say, "get this customer a mattress," because they just lay down for us and let us do our thing.
It hurt me so I was glad to get out, but its VERY true. You know those awards on the wall of the service department? The ones that say something like "pentastar award of service excellence."? Those are awards for being the most successful at turning warranty claims into upsell profits. I worked as a salesman at one of those dealerships and I couldn't get MY warranty claims covered without someone first telling me, "oh that's not covered." Why do they do it? Because if the customer presses the issue, the service manager can always say, "I'm sorry, he's new, of course its covered." But, you wouldn't believe the number of warranty claims we turned into customer pay.
Stick to your guns, ride it out as long as you emotionally can, but expect to lose. I'm very sorry to say that, but its the truth. They have lots of very expensive lawyers and you don't. I think a judge would rule in favor of the service department because it will be easy to prove that there was no way a tech could have predicted when it would break.
I wish you the best of luck. In the future, skip the dealer entirely they are trained for two weeks (ask me how I know) in how to get a customer to roll over and pay. Find a reputable shop and do your homework. Find out when timing belt intervals are and stick to them. If you go to a shop for work, ask for an estimate and then bring it here. We'll help you figure it out. There are several guys in this eng/tech forum with great insight on stuff like that.
Good luck
A:
Thank you so much Curtis and thank you so much everyone else!
Yeah I know I should have had my owners manual on my lap for this one, unfortunatly I didnt gain the car until I got married to the man that owns it..and he isnt good about keeping stuff like that. (so if you know how to get a new one, id like the info..now that i know how much I Seriously need one).
And as for curtis' insight. I believe every word of it, unfortunatly as that is. I spoke my mind to them again earlier today about the whole ..not telling me that you Honestly cant check a timeing belt. And they just looked at me with a blank smile and nodded their head as if to say "yep! thats exactly what we did..and Nope we arent going to offer to help you in any other way than sucking you dry". Needless to say I really wanted to kick in some teeth.
WELL the end result was this
we generally had to suck it up of course...a 2,500 dollar (roughly) bill.
Nice huh?
My husband (who is military) is trying to get us an AER to help pay the bill...basically ..military emergancy loan that we dont have to pay intrest on because it come directly out of your pay check each month. though we dont know how much we are going to get yet..and the rest will be up to us.
It will take 3 days to repair the car..so we are shelling out about 35.00 a day for a rental (which in the case of rentals here isnt really that bad..and its not a lemon).
And we have learned a valuable lesson...when the wife says "that guy (not a mech.) that looked at the car said we need to replace the timeing belt soon" 6 months ago ...we DO NOT listen to the dealership..we listen to the wife..and the man not getting paid jack.
Thank you again SO much for your guys insight, and if Ever I need anything else, I KNOW where I will be going for information.
PS
When I get the quote and the sheet on what needs to be replaced in the car back from the AER, ill post it..so you can see Exactly what got screwed.
and tell me if they are just running me around the park again with excess charges.