A&Q about 350Z
Q:
But THIS should have been the new Z car...
72 WooHoo!! In good shape too...
72 Rolling Chassis (RB or LS1?)
80 NA SCCA ST2/CP (Car + Tree = Dead)
82 NA 3.0L the rust monster got it
82 ZXT 3.1L, 25psi! Hit in the right rear. ;(
83 parts car
92 TT Sold! ;(
02 Looking for an '03 made in '02
A:
Sure! Why not? NK
Norman Krell
A:
I think they look like poo, there's a guy that lives near me that owns one. Something just doesn't look right about it.
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
Shaped like a Triumph gt6, which I like.
1991 300ZX N/A Slicktop
1970 240Z
A:
But that IS a Z car!
'72 240Z
A:
i was gonna post something like this, such a rip off off a s30, that looks more like a Z than the 350z, if someone disgresses, please point out how? i dare you....
73' 240z: F54 4.2L, OS Giken LY DOHC Crossflow head, 17:3comp.ratio, N33, Tripple SU's, T10 Hybrid Draw-Through TT @ 47pds, Roots&Centrifugal Type supercharger, 3-2-1 headers, Centerforce 4 clutch, 6oz flywheel, R300 differential, Super-Hicas
A:
Ditto, Datto! Almost makes me wanna cut the nose off and put it on my Z. Anyone good with photoshop?
RR
72 240
A:
why not... WHY NOT!... thats a SnobMW! ;-D I do like those current ones with the hatch back. More so than the regular ones. Z3-coupe
A:
EVERY long hood short rear deck car that comes out elicits "THIS should have been the new Z" commentaries. And the usual magpies join the chorus.
It's been 4 years. Let it go already.
A:
well, it may not be nissan, but atleast they have taste!
----------------------------------------------------
1981 n/a 280zx
1952 m38a1 jeep willy's
1971 fairlady 240z
95 300zx N/A
72 240z
A:
if I knew what it meant.
Post Edited (Aug 12, 2:01pm)
A:
I like it better like this with a more conventional grill and smoothed out sides. Front still looks a little to much like an Aston Martin but i think a more Gnose style opening and some tweaking of the headlight shape would give a much more attractive car than the 350. Still would need all those stupid Bangle creases taken out though.
Post Edited (Aug 11, 11:51pm)
A:
Z!
73' 240z: F54 4.2L, OS Giken LY DOHC Crossflow head, 17:3comp.ratio, N33, Tripple SU's, T10 Hybrid Draw-Through TT @ 47pds, Roots&Centrifugal Type supercharger, 3-2-1 headers, Centerforce 4 clutch, 6oz flywheel, R300 differential, Super-Hicas
A:
I'm sure most people have seen this, figured I'd post it anyway...
It looks better as an artists' rendition than the actual completed car itself oddly...
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
z4 looks like **** as a hardtop.
_____________________________________________
'05 350Z Chrome Silver Touring
'73 240Z
A:
300zxt,
Yes, I remember those concept drawings when Nissan was bringing back the Z, and I remember thinking to myself if they could possibly make it any uglier! I can't imagine the 350 selling the way it does now if they stuck to their original syling like those above.
02/1976 280Z
An amateur trying to restore the Z. I should have taken the blue pill!
A:
Yeah I agree the finished product looks like balls, but the basis is there for a real Z car they just didn't quite pull it off... The 350 looks like a Z car with a weight problem though lol
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
if this is a weight problem they should feed all cars whatever mine eats.
_____________________________________________
'05 350Z Chrome Silver Touring
'73 240Z
A:
I saw one in person at the BMW factory in SC last month and the car looks AWESOME in person!!
First thing I said to my wife was how much it looked like a 240Z.........
-----------------------------------------
12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
There's nothing fat about this car.
Post Edited (Aug 12, 8:22am)
A:
Long hood, short deck. Oh, yeah, I see it now. It's so close how did I miss it?
Other than that, what else is the same?
Post Edited (Aug 12, 8:31am)
A:
I think BMW is behind by about 30yrs.
and why does everyone who sees a short tail and long nose all of a sudden decide that it should be a Z?
Cars too round for the "sharp" body lines, go round, and stay round, not make a round car and put a "sharp triangle" (per say) on the fenders.
i will agree, it is somewhat nice, but never would i compare it to a real Z
but yeah, whatever..everyone has different taste.
Nissan_Driven_Shift_Nothing.
88 3+2 n/a
86 TT-(in the making)
A:
DID NOT like the 350Z when i first saw it at the concept car show,
just like i didn't like my first z31 when i bought it for $300,
as a matter of fact, i just about thought the 350 was going to be a downfall for Nissan, but...to go to the city everyday and see a dozen of them to and from the job sites, they are a thing of beauty, and to have owned 4 z31's in my lifetime...and to still own 2, things grow on you when you give them a chance!
Now that i've givin the 350 a chance, i actually think it's a damn nice car!
I really hate Ford, but... realistically guess what gets me to and from work without a hitch every morning.
Just to say...pretty much stuck your whole life with things you don't like, and most of the time, you're only stuck with them, cuz YOU CHOSE to dislike it to begin with.
Nissan_Driven_Shift_Nothing.
88 3+2 n/a
86 TT-(in the making)
A:
dark Z's picture looks more like a civic hatchback than anything else.
_____________________________________________
'05 350Z Chrome Silver Touring
'73 240Z
A:
But don't you wish they did?
I agree, loose the scallops on the side's and get rid of the BMW front grill.
But it has a 3.3L inline 6 making 330hp/262lb-ft torque. This necessitates a long hood and short deck lid and the built-in rear spoiler is very reminiscent of a 240Z with BRE rear spoiler.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the new 350Z has been a hit. I just wish they had made it a little lighter with a little more 'DNA' of the original. An angled 3 gauge cluster isn't enough in my opinion.
72 WooHoo!! In good shape too...
72 Rolling Chassis (RB or LS1?)
80 NA SCCA ST2/CP (Car + Tree = Dead)
82 NA 3.0L the rust monster got it
82 ZXT 3.1L, 25psi! Hit in the right rear. ;(
83 parts car
92 TT Sold! ;(
02 Looking for an '03 made in '02
A:
The Z4's body lines resemble a 240Z WAY MORE than does a 350Z.
I just think the Z4 M coupe looks more like what a modern 240Z should have looked like today.
The rear window on the Z4 especially reminds me of the 240Z.
I also like inline 6's better than V6's so there is another similarity to the 240Z.
PRICE........uggghhh there the 350Z is much more like a modern 240Z.
Later,Norm
-----------------------------------------
12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
Look at the hateful statements that followed!
Inciter!
Divider!
Revisionist!
;^P
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Aug 12, 10:58am)
A:
72n03 wrote
"There's nothing fat about this car(350Z)."
Well, except for the Azz end!! Look closer and it definitely resembles Aretha Franklin's hind end!!
-----------------------------------------
12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
how can he deny that?
73' 240z: F54 4.2L, OS Giken LY DOHC Crossflow head, 17:3comp.ratio, N33, Tripple SU's, T10 Hybrid Draw-Through TT @ 47pds, Roots&Centrifugal Type supercharger, 3-2-1 headers, Centerforce 4 clutch, 6oz flywheel, R300 differential, Super-Hicas
A:
phat
_____________________________________________
'05 350Z Chrome Silver Touring
'73 240Z
A:
There are only two car companies in the world who have never posted
a quaterly loss. BMW and TOYOTA . It looks like Chris Bangle and his styling crew at BMW are tying real hard to change that.
I personally don't care for the Z4 in coupe or roadster,BUT it does have some potential if you get rid all the garbage.
The reasemblence to a early Z is more than just the Long Hood and Short Deck. The entire roof, C pillar ,Quarter window and hatch all look alot like a Z. Ad to that the Hood and Deck proportions and yeah i see alot of Z in it.
As far as the 350 goes i keep waiting for the design to grow on me... Uh don't think it's gonna happen. But it IS a sales success and alot of people like it. Personally if i wanted a car styled like a AUDI TT I would have bought one of those. I would have been happier with a slightly restyled Silvia packing an SR20DET and priced around 20Grand.
The Saddest part is that NISSAN is going to extend this theme across there whole line so when we do get a Skyline it will look like tarted up cross between an INFINITY coupe and a 350(I can't bring myself to put a Z after 350 no matter how hard I try).
Post Edited (Aug 12, 5:58pm)
A:
Here is the Styling Exercise. AWFULL
And a shot of a very near production ready model.
A:
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but that looks like a G35 with fender flares, a scooped hood and an aftermarket front fascia.
I'm pretty sure that's not a 'near production' Skyline.
Jason k wrote:
> And a shot of a very near production ready model.
>
>
72 WooHoo!! In good shape too...
72 Rolling Chassis (RB or LS1?)
80 NA SCCA ST2/CP (Car + Tree = Dead)
82 NA 3.0L the rust monster got it
82 ZXT 3.1L, 25psi! Hit in the right rear. ;(
83 parts car
92 TT Sold! ;(
02 Looking for an '03 made in '02
Post Edited (Aug 12, 6:13pm)
A:
Damn you Tony_D!
How dare you out me in public like that!
You're a Muckraker!
;)
Tony D wrote:
> Look at the hateful statements that followed!
>
> Inciter!
>
> Divider!
>
> Revisionist!
>
> ;^P
>
>
> Post Edited (Aug 12, 10:58am)
72 WooHoo!! In good shape too...
72 Rolling Chassis (RB or LS1?)
80 NA SCCA ST2/CP (Car + Tree = Dead)
82 NA 3.0L the rust monster got it
82 ZXT 3.1L, 25psi! Hit in the right rear. ;(
83 parts car
92 TT Sold! ;(
02 Looking for an '03 made in '02
A:
Jason K you're terribbly, terribly uninformed... those pics of the GTR above couldnt be more offbase. The first pic will resemble the GTR the second will not at all
"Personally if i wanted a car styled like a AUDI TT I would have bought one of those."
All personal opinions...only 10 year old kids and women and men for that matter who know nothing about cars think the 2 look much alike. The styling and layout are completely different. Also in case you didnt know the 350 wasnt supposed to look like a 240. IT was supposed to be a new Z, not a retro car a la the new rustang, new camaro, and every other so called saving grace for detroit. Do the 90's 300's look like 240's? No. Yet Theyre still Z's and as somebody posted, ranked one of the best looking cars of all time, if im not mistaken.
---------------------
03 CS Touring
VIN #189
A:
poor jason can't bring himself to put a z after 350 lol. his loss. if he drove one for a few days he may change his mind... or maybe not. There are a few z models i don't care for either, but i still appreciate their Zness.
_____________________________________________
'05 350Z Chrome Silver Touring
'73 240Z
A:
There's no denying the fact the 350Z has a big fat rear end compared to other Z cars.
With that said I have nothing against the 350Z personally I just happen to like the 350Z convertable Nismo versions the best myself.
Here's a great wallpaper sized photo of one.
http://www.300zxt.com/images/nissan_350z_nismo.jpg
Easily the best looking 350Z there is in my opinion.
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
Post Edited (Aug 12, 7:36pm)
A:
Yes it is a Z and i have driven one. There is no denying that they are
a very good powertrain in a well designed chassis. Performance is definetly not one of my complaints.
I just remember for several years NISSAN saying that the new Z would be a spiritiual succesor to the original 240z not the Late 300z. In my opinion what we ended up with is much closer to the 300z than a 240z. Again a slightly restyled Silvia with a SR20DET would have come much closer price and feel wise. But as I said before It IS a sales success. So whatever my personal feelings about the styling may be it appeals to the exact audience you want when your selling a product THE ONES Who will buy it.
As far as the GT-R goes, with a launch date set in 2007 they better be testing very close to production ready parts or they will never make. This is the car they showed at the 2005 Tokyo auto show. It will be interesting to see how close they come to the Auto show teaser.
Post Edited (Aug 12, 11:06pm)
A:
_____________________________________________
'05 350Z Chrome Silver Touring
'73 240Z
A:
It just doesn't sound right called a "Zee" lol Zed sounds much more aggressive :P
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
here is a rough, and it is rough and a bit off with the angles but it gives an idea of what the 2 could look like...its not done by the way
1974 260z...
1975 green 280
Post Edited (Aug 13, 12:33am)
A:
I dunno, the 350z already looks bloated compared to the 280zx, which is even wider than its predecessor.
______________________________________________
'82 280zx -- 400+hp 355 sbc / T-56
'72 240zt - T3/T4 hybrid / TEC-II / not much stock
'82 280zxt - Stock...for now
'77 280z 2+2 -- Ongoing battle; currently in the process of "ricing
A:
just graft a 350Z emblem on the back of ANY pre-2003 Z and these guys will be happy.
That's what everybody here is whining for: a "new" Z that looks just like their old ones.
Urf.
A:
thats pretty much how all cars look now...look at any car thats been in production for 20-30 years and compare the tail end now with how it was back then. They're larger theres no question about it. unless you're talking about a car that once had fins. easy comparo, the new vette C5 and up vs the older ones...need i say more? I dont know whether its aero, crash safety, or just plain modern styling but thats how it goes.
---------------------
03 CS Touring
VIN #189
Post Edited (Aug 13, 3:21pm)
A:
thats why the mustang gt tears it up.....
73' 240z: F54 4.2L, OS Giken LY DOHC Crossflow head, 17:3comp.ratio, N33, Tripple SU's, T10 Hybrid Draw-Through TT @ 47pds, Roots&Centrifugal Type supercharger, 3-2-1 headers, Centerforce 4 clutch, 6oz flywheel, R300 differential, Super-Hicas
A:
lol I agree with 72n03Zs, everyone wanted the new Z to look like thier old one.
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
i think a modern version of the 240z would be pretty sweet. i'd buy one. i do love my 350z though.
_____________________________________________
'05 350Z Chrome Silver Touring
'73 240Z
A:
They tried that already and scrapped it, see here
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
I drove the 350z roadster I posted above for about a week, and even though I never cared for the looks, it grew on me -- a lot. I was highly considering buying it. But, then I thought about what the money could do to all of my other Z cars, and decided against it.
______________________________________________
'82 280zx -- 400+hp 355 sbc / T-56
'72 240zt - T3/T4 hybrid / TEC-II / not much stock
'82 280zxt - Stock...for now
'77 280z 2+2 -- Ongoing battle; currently in the process of "ricing
A:
"thats pretty much how all cars look now...look at any car thats been in production for 20-30 years and compare the tail end now with how it was back then. "
Haven't seen the article where they stuck a new Mustang under the skin of an old fastback then, have you?
Lots of filler panels used to fit the SMALLER new Mustang Chassis to the LONGER, WIDER older Mustang Fastback....
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Yeah, a new vehicle having a direct line of succession from earlier models is a terrible thing.
Just look at how horribly the 911 had performed for Porsche AG.
Like it or not, you can see the evolution of the 911.
Problem was the 350 is not an evolution of the 240.
Actually, arguably the 280ZX probably is not much of an evolution, either. While it kept the lines of a G-Nosed 240, the only evolutionary cars in truth were the 260 and in the USA, the 280Z. It would be a stretch to call the 280ZX an evolution as much as a revolution. They completely changed the vehicle to appeal to a completely different market demographic.
Nissan is great for that: Make a Niche, then completely abandon it for another automaker.
They did it with the 510. People who would buy a 510 in 1972, bought a Civic in 1982.
People who bought a 240 in 1972, didn't buy a 280ZX in 1982, they bought something from another manufacturer as well---with a dearth of items to choose from.
In 1992, those same demographics were buying a MIATA, and sure as hell not buying a Z32!
In 2003, the marketing gurus decided to position the 350Z near the Mustang. Might be a place to go to, might have a niche to fill, but nowhere near the original demographic. Those people are still buying Miatas, even though they are a bloated pig compared to the their original concept. At least you can tell a lineage fom an early Miata to the current version...
Porsche understood the keeping of a demographic, and the importance of EVOLVING a chassis, and IMPROVING it incrementally, rather than throwing it on the trash heap and starting from a clean slate of paper and paying lip service to heritage.
Light, Handles Well, Reasonably Powerful. Not a muscle car, not a grand tourer, a lightweight sports car / runabout that competes on the world stage with vehicles costing far more.
Tall order? Not really, compared to what is out there.
I forsee it coming form Korea or China, and when it hits the market, it will sell like hotcakes.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
i understnad what your saying obviously alot of the muscle back then was enormous but im not really talking about strict size dimensions, or maybe i am, i dont know how you'd measure it but id say the rear of the new stang looks kinda chunky compared to an old fastback let alone the non-fastback models. maybe the chrome bumpers on the older cars serves to break up the panel better visually?
---------------------
03 CS Touring
VIN #189
A:
comparing with porsche is like apples and oranges...the 911 is their bread and butter thats what they do and thats pretty much it...performance cars namely the 500 911 variants up until now with the other lines. you have to keep the same demographic, older white males, cause they're generally the ones that can afford it. An older white male that bought a 911 in 1996 is now still an older white male in 2006 and would still be into the same type of styling/performance . Am I right? With an entry level sports cars you cant really do that, you have to cater to whats new and to what newly acquired money likes. Sure theres plenty of old guys that own 350z's but theres a hell of alot of us that werent born when the 240 came out. Also is it the Z33 designers fault that Nissan and the economy F'ed over the Z32 and it tanked here in the mid-90's. Like you said the lineage was already arguably broken at the 280ZX, how are you suppposed to continue a 20 year old broken lineage? Retro?
"Light, Handles Well, Reasonably Powerful. Not a muscle car, not a grand tourer, a lightweight sports car / runabout that competes on the world stage with vehicles costing far more."
Id say the Z33 isnt too far away, harp all you want at the weight..i think we'd all love the car to shed a few hundred lbs but when the car came out in 03 id say it was just about in line with your quote.
---------------------
03 CS Touring
VIN #189
Post Edited (Aug 13, 9:09pm)
A:
"Also is it the Z33 designers fault that Nissan and the economy F'ed over the Z32 and it tanked here in the mid-90's."
Uh, the Z33N/A has more power than the TURBO version of the Z32, for a price (Non-Inflation Adjusted) of almost HALF the price when initially introduced ($44K versus $24K) That, and Nissan made a decision not to redesign the WHOLE chassis to accomodate the new USA ONLY emissions requirements. Emissions Requirements killed the Z32 on a corporate level long before the sales petered out to a dismal shadow of what could have been. Ever see the Z32 sales figures? Take a look: Great Car, world class to be sure, dismal sales failure. Worst seller of all the Z-Cars EVER! Why? O V E R P R I C E D !
The 350 was a BIG move in the right direction. Nobody wanted a Japanese Supercar for $40K plus. The market proved that, it was nothing to do with economics, for that money the people will buy the marques ESTABLISHED as high-dollar.
Datsun was established as a Value-Based performace make. The tried to make it a Prestige Marque, and that it is not.
Similar to the difference between VW in Europe and in the USA. VW has made EVOLUTIONARY changes in incremental ways to align it's name in the USA to more what it has in Europe, that of more luxury and prestige than bare bones maker of the VW Bug.
Nissan didn't follow that course, and they paid dearly by trashing the Datsun Name because of internal politics. Had they kept Datsun alive, they would have had a GREAT platform to launch an "Intermediate" division in the USA named NISSAN, and even a "Prestige" division named INFINITY...
Same platforms, with radically altered trim levels, and radically altered price tags as well.
But hey, having an Infinity G35 available (tagged Datsun D35) for $10,000 less than the Nissan N35, with wind-up windows, vinyl seast, less sound deadening, and only a five speed.... That would be abad thing, right? Selling like hotcakes while new-money Yuppies throw cahs like it's going out of style on the Infinity G35 versions costing $20K more and having leather everything, while wannabes and Yuppies buying a car for their College Kids would buy the N35 having upgraded naugahide and maybe an onboard GPS and cel phone tracking system....
They think the pie is finite, and to some extent it is, but the trick as a Chef is to cut the pie the right way so that everybody wants more and is willing to pay to get it!
Don't look to GM or any of the Big Three for that answer, they make a TRUCKFUL of pies, all of them slightly off-taste, and slightly mouldy, then PAY people to buy them.... Not a great business model if you ask me.
It's funny how NISSAN kept it's name, and successfully launched an upmarket division named INFINITY. But DATSUN had to be TRASHED to change the name to NISSAN? Stoopid!
They lost their history, and lost their heritage. STOOPID!
Much better idea would have been to Launch Nisssan with new platforms much like Infinity did, and keep Datsun as the "Entry Level" marque. It was HAPPY TO BE THAT! That is what ESTABLISHED the name here in the USA!
But internal politics did in the name, and that was a shame.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Aug 13, 9:36pm)
A:
The emissions laws in Japan totally killed their local market too, there's almost an endless supply of wicked fast cars there all just sitting in lots rotting away waiting to be exported because they can't drive them there. The air pollution in Tokyo is insane though, I never once got a single breath of fresh air and didn't even see the sun except thru thick smog clouds when I was there so in cases like that it's fairly warranted. It's great for guys like me in Australia, just means lots of cheap, fast cars to import! lol I'm selfish I know...
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
Emissions Tesing in Japan is random during Shaken inspection.
The reason so many Japanese cars hit the market is the cost of ownership after year ten.
Inspections alone on a Z32 will be over $2000 for a year, Tags come due in April for another $1500, and every quarter there are minor inspections in the $400 range.
Those are US Dollars...
If you have a NEW vehicle, those come due after your third year of ownership, and every second year till year ten.
Then you get to pay the above costs YEARLY.
Many high-income Japanese drive a new car every three years, and the rest go to auction.
A normal Japanese car like a Corrloa or Carina is worth about $50 in scrap value after that last Shaken is expired.
I personally watched 240ZG's junked to a breaker due to light sideswipe damage one March, with the owner saying the inspection was due, and so was road taxes (tags) so it wasn't worth keeping the car.
Of course there is not any penalty for NOT registering your cars, just finding a place to park them!
Emissions? Not a problem in Japan. They have systems on those cars that are good for 100K miles. With the average car only travelling half that much in ten years, emissions is never an issue with the retirement of the vehicles...
I know, I lived there for almost six years.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Aug 13, 10:16pm)
A:
I still see the 280zx as an evolution -- I agree with you about the marketing, as it shifted a different direction. But I'm thinking:
- better aerodynamics (vs. the non-g-nose s30)
- introduced the L28et
- still retained same basic body shape as s30
- R200 with cv axles
etc.
Fell free to put me in my place
I've heard that the race-prepped s130 chassis is supposed to perform better than a race-prepped s30, but then I ask myself why most of those who autocross and participate in other variants of road racing stay with the s30 chassis. Just because of weight advantage? I agree that the s30 chassis is a classic, sexy bodystyle that can't be reproduced, IMO, but I still think the s130 still retains, and improves in some cases, its heritage. The Z31, on the other hand, killed it all :-) Well, they do have the lsd and water-cooled T3, so I'll give 'em that...
______________________________________________
'82 280zx -- 400+hp 355 sbc / T-56
'72 240zt - T3/T4 hybrid / TEC-II / not much stock
'82 280zxt - Stock...for now
'77 280z 2+2 -- Ongoing battle; currently in the process of "ricing
A:
That's insane they regulate inspections like that there. I guess here they try to do the same regarding imports here by robbing you with compliance fees and similar inspection fees and all these other charges when importing. Luckily there's a couple of great importers here that deal with it all for you and you just pay the landed price and that's it! I want to get something really wild from Japan one day, I like those 98' model 4WD Twin Turbo Stagea stationwagons you can get! Some of them Autech Versions are pimpin! lol
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
Post Edited (Aug 14, 12:12am)
A:
The reason there are so many JDM front clips available for sale in the US is because of the taxation in Japan that Tony so eloquently described.
In the US, where your auto taxes decrease year over year, in Japan the run the inverse and INCREASE year over year.
Think about an economy in the 60's, 70's and 80's that was almost ENTIRELY supported by the auto industry.
Do you make it cheaper to keep the car over a long period of time, or INCENT your populace to buy a new one as frequently as possible?
We have the mantra here of "Buy American". They have the mantra of "Buy Japanese... As Frequently As Possible!" ;)
I agree with JBond about the 280ZX. With a little weight reduction, some basic suspension upgrades and some turbo upgrades, the 280ZXT can be a killer platform. Hence JeffP and my feeble attempt to emulate his success albeit with triple Mikuni's instead of his FI.
72 WooHoo!! In good shape too...
72 Rolling Chassis (RB or LS1?)
80 NA SCCA ST2/CP (Car + Tree = Dead)
82 NA 3.0L the rust monster got it
82 ZXT 3.1L, 25psi! Hit in the right rear. ;(
83 parts car
92 TT Sold! ;(
02 Looking for an '03 made in '02
A:
The L28ET was an Evolution within the S130 chassis.
Worldwide, the LSD was an option from DAY ONE on the S30---only in the USA did they have that not as a factory off the boat option.
Porsche did not change the marketing focus on the 911, it followed true to it's roots, and they refined out the illhandling tendencies of the early cars---if you don't believe that, drive a 67 911T and then drive an 89 911 anything...
R200 was also available in the S30, as an evolutionary change.
And you're mistaken: the S130 did NOT have CV joints, that was the S30! The S130 had Tripod Style Axles, along with Cardan Style. The S30 had Cardan Style, and for FIA Homogolation TRUE C-V Joints.
For general production, the Z31 was the first Z that had TRUE C-V Joints in the driveline since the original S30 FIA Versions. They referred to them in Nissanspeak as "Double-Offset Birfield Joints".
The evolution of the S130 to a GT from a Sports Car is an evolution in market Demographics, as opposed to an Evolution in the Vehicle alone.
The market was strong for the S30 chassis, selling well throughout it's total product cycle from 1969 to 1979. The 1979 S130 is the best selling Z-Car ever, but it suffered from something each of the subsequent models did (and which the S30 chassis didn't): Declining sales after initial release.
Watch Porsche sales on the 911, and they stay steady based on the Evolution of a competent chassis and solid market demographic. Same for the S30.
Each of the subsequent models S130, Z31, Z32, and probably the Z33 followed the "Detroit Based New Model Decline".
This has been covered in the past, but looking at production figures, the S130 sold more in one year than many of the successors did during their entire product lifecycle.
Sad planning, that, lost the way.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Very common that people with many vehicles (storage space) will only license one vehicle, and run their "classics" on a Red-Striped Temporary Plate.
Check out the Japanese photos you see: if the car has a red plate, and the two tax stamps are missing from the windshield (square one above the mirror in the center, and a round one on the driver's side) the car can be assumed to be not an inspected and registered for the street vehicle.
Thing is, you rent the temporary plates, and you are covered by government sponsored insurance for the duration of the plate, and Liability Insurance is covered on your personal insurance for your primary car, so you car covered for damages should anything happen.
And since there are no "Penalties" for not registering a vehicle, the usage of a temporary plate on a regular basis allows for many cars the opportunity to be kept operational and used occasionally without the onerous registration and inspections costs.
Wich that was the case here in Sunny SoCal.
They want you to register everything, and if you don't, the fees climb and climb for 10 years till it becomes non-cost effective to reregister it (but at that point it drops off the rolls, and you simply re-register it as a "new vehicle") Of course with the new system here, you pay a $10 fee for a "Permanent Non-Operational" status, and that is supposed to keep the fees from mounting. Then again it keeps your name in the system as the vehicle's owner as well. Which has pittfalls of it's own.
Insidious Regulating Bastards.....
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
The S130 can be made to handle like the S30 when solidly mounting the rear subframe. The compromises for a 'quieter ride' in the chassis lead to problems when putting loads of power through it.
Each of the subsequent models suffered from the same engineering defect. Look at what guys with Z32's have to do to keep the rear subframe from moving around under power!
For the power available from a Turbo L28 in competition (800HP), the S30 platform is simply inadequate.
But then again, the S30 wasn't a GT car---and 800 HP is what GT (O) cars need to be competitive.
The S30 was always a GT(U) car, and that class hasn't changed that much over the years if you look at it.
GT(O) simply begs for big chassis to handle big power.
And therein began the march away from the Nich they originally created.
Look at what vehicles competed with the S30 price wise: Opel GT, Ford Capri V6, Porsche 914..... Where did they all go?
Look at the major competitor that competed with the S30 performance wise: 911!
It was supercar performance at pedestrian price. Along the way they decided to rake us over the coals for the performance, while at the same time giving nothing in the lower price ranges to fill that original niche!
Only in the past few years have the cars returned. Honda S2000, Toyota Spyder: Sports Cars. Not cheap, but then again they give great performance in a light, nimble platform. No Gold-Chain Wearing Posuers there, just performance vehicles that cost less than a Boxter or other EuroTrash Offering.
Why?
Someone looked and realized a lot of Hot Civics were making a 3 billion dollar a year aftermarket business thrive.
Oops, asleep at the switch again. Reactive as opposed to proactive! Not typical for the Japanese, but totally understandable as to why no American Manufacturer produces anything worthwhile in the Niche. I bet in Dearborn, they are still referring to it as "This thing with the kids, this Hot-Hatch Phenemonon---that still a regional Anomaly out west? When can we capitalize on it here in the heartland? Anybody see my neck pillow, I need to take a nap, wake me when Toyota Buys GM!"
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Aug 14, 10:23am)
A:
Sadly Nissan seems to have forgotten why they built the first Z's the way they did. Affordable, fun, and direct competition to the Porsche boys at a fraction of the price. For the new Z to reflect that would have been great. In design and feel. Sadly the 350z is a beast of its own and in my opinion seems to be without any evolutionary factors other than badges. I've yet to even see a marketing campaign that relates the 350z to a 240z (or any other Z for that matter), which is lame. Ford flys the nostalgia card on the new mustang, chevy with the vette and camaro(when it comes back to life), dodge with those damn monstrosities that they're producing, but not Nissan. That's all just opinion and from what I've seen, no way can I produce as much hard information as Tony so I won't even try. I guess it is a new age for the Z, I just hope it goes in the right direction.
1972 240z w/L28, tokico shocks and springs, and a 5 speed waiting. Also running high performance ultra mega blinker fluid, that's at least an extra 50hp to the wheels.
1987 Toyota Supra Turbo 5-speed. Belongs to me until my friend get's back from Iraq.
A:
You said, "Affordable, fun, and direct competition to the Porsche boys at a fraction of the price."
What's missing?
Oh, yeah, that line of sight heritage thing. The only manufacturer with that is Porsche, as already noted, with its venerable 911. But even it has gone from air to water cooled engines, so I guess the air cooled guys have to be harrumphing at the water cooled guys, much like you pre-350Z guys are harrumphing right now.
Nissan veered so far from long hood, short deck with the '90 300ZX, I really don't understand why the 350Z is still getting hammered with this same old whine.
Post Edited (Aug 14, 6:18pm)
A:
haha..i nearly posted the exact same comment but reserved myself, since we could argue ourselves blue in the face but someone will still complain. The car is now 4 year old but people still bring up the same weak arguments against the Z33, when, like you said, the only thing that would please them is a Z31 with a factory warranty
---------------------
03 CS Touring
VIN #189
A:
I wonder what the reaction was when the z32 came out? the twinturbo doesn't have a lick of any s30 or s31 in it.....I just think its natural for people not liking change.
1993 TwinTurbo Ultra Red (M/T) SOLD! :(
94 Honda civic hatchback with 110 horsepower.....yay.
Post Edited (Aug 14, 9:02pm)
A:
Tony, Can we take all of your posts, all 26,322 of them, and create a book? Everything you wanted to know about Z cars, philosophy, and life in general. It is so cool to read your posts. I think it could be a best seller. honestly, how did you get so smart?
RR
72 240
A:
I don't think it's about liking change. I think it's the overall concept of the car. It all boils down to wanting a lightweight, low priced, decently powered, no nonsense sports car that looks good. Not an overweight GT. Hell, I would sacrifice the looking good part if it satisfied the other requirements well.
'71 240ZT
A:
Hahaha...The "Tony D - You don't know sh!t about Z cars" hardcover limited edition...I'd buy it.
And to stay on topic, I like the Z33. Sure she's a little big in the back end, but that's the way I like em.
--------------------------------------
1990 300zx NA
- Custom Exhaust
- JWT Pop Charger
Post Edited (Aug 15, 12:24pm)
A:
"Tony D - You don't know sh!t about ANYTHING!"
Post Edited (Aug 15, 7:04pm)
A:
LMAO
"The Z's disease won't make anything turn black, wither, and fall off, nor turn cancerous." - Tony D
"Take it to a track where BOTH drivers mean business or it's just one sided mechanical masterbation." - Hybrid77z
A:
Tony is too busy touring to write a book
Injector Cleaning Service
THE FREE ONLINE INDEPENDENT Z STORE
Email me to add your product
A:
"Oh, yeah, that line of sight heritage thing. The only manufacturer with that is Porsche, as already noted, with its venerable 911. But even it has gone from air to water cooled engines, so I guess the air cooled guys have to be harrumphing at the water cooled guys, much like you pre-350Z guys are harrumphing right now."
Hmmm...
Beetle from VW looks like a 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and the last 2000's mode Air Cooled Beetle.
Mustang from Ford looks like 67 Mustang.
FJ Crusier looks a lot like the old FJ55 Station Wagon
Chevy SSR, HHR
Chrysler PT Cruiser
The list can go on, it's more than nostalgia, people want something that hasn't been sanatized in some styling comittee so it's inoffensive and functionally slippery, and grey-bland generic so that you can't tell the players without a score card.
The 350, unfortunately looks a damsite too much like a Toyota Celica. If the NEW Celica looked anything like it's 70's couterpart, and the 350 did the same, there would be none of this "Generic Confusion"
And for the record, the Elitist Snobs of the PCA Air Cooled Anachronisim Society indeed do harrumph anything not air cooled.
But a 911 hasn't been air cooled for 30 years. If you think it has been, you haven't had to do an oil change on one!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
"WOO HOO!"
The Dastun fans were ECSTATIC at the rollout of the Z32 as it returned the Z-Car to a performance base.
As Automobile annoounced in it's Cover Photo (as listed in another stripped discussion) "The Z-Car comes out of it's Coma"...
Problem was it didn't sell well, because it was priced WAAAAAAAY out of what their market was. They made a supercar, and people always love supercars. They just don't buy a lot of them. Another example of one step in the right direction, but the second right off the edge of the pier following that corret step!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Very nice alteration to the title. Who am I to disagree?
And it went so log without someont getting catty.
And suprise suprise, the usual suspect shows up again.
Sad.
"Tink"
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
And it is an accurate portrayal of your presence on this forum.
It's too bad you got your feelings hurt, big boy.
Post Edited (Aug 16, 10:39pm)
A:
Please check definition of "Tink"
Obviously I am operating at a much higher plane of intelligence if the comment went over your head, again.
As usual.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Look that up.
A:
Resorting to Welsh again?
:Rolls Eyes:
Beowulf does not need to be translated for me to enjoy it...
But my son needed that translation when he read it at age 8...
"Tink"
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Now you're fluent in Welsh. Amazing.
That must have been a rare Welsh edition of the original Old English text with which you helped your son in the 8th grade.
So long, big boy.
A:
There you go again, putting words in my mouth!
Did I say Beowulf was in Welsh? Bit delusional on your part...
Was I making a parallel between your using obvious Welsh Phraseology and being able to read Old English with no problems? About as useful to me today as being able to speak Welsh. I spoke English in Wrexham this past March, and had no problems whatsoever. Welsh, while a wonderful language, is an anachronisim. Just about as useful in todays' world as reading Old English. So you and I both have a totally useless skill.
Unless I get some ignorant git in Wales who didn't pass exams, and was raised by fervent Welsh Nationalists, and insisted he only speak in the native, half-dead tongue.
Once again, over your head, and as tied together to this subject as your little Welsh Ditty was...
So you spew Welsh? So what? You must have been frustrated at your inability to decipher my Equally Cryptic, yet still not-understood-by-you "Tink" comment.
Oh, and BTW, my son read the aforementioned tome when he was 8, not when he was in the 8th grade. Get it right, if you insist on being a pest.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Aug 17, 11:30pm)