A&Q about 350Z
Q:
2 Men Die as Ferrari Flips Out of Control, Crashes
By Stephen Osman and Richard Winton, Times Staff Writers
May 24, 2006
A man who authorities said may have been an off-duty California Highway Patrol officer and a second man who has not been identified were killed Tuesday in a rollover accident involving a Ferrari, the second high-profile Ferrari crash this year in Los Angeles County.
The accident on Cornell Road in Agoura Hills occurred about 3:15 p.m., when the silver 1993 Ferrari Testarossa spun off the road and flipped, the CHP said.
Both victims, believed to be men in their 30s, died at the scene, authorities said.
The Ferrari may have been traveling at high speed when the driver lost control, said Los Angeles County Sheriff's Sgt. Phil Brooks. "It came off the corner and went into the air and hit a pole and rocks before flipping upside down," he said.
Brooks said evidence at the scene indicated that one occupant was an off-duty CHP officer. But CHP officials said late Tuesday that they were awaiting results of fingerprint tests to confirm the victims' identities and declined to say more.
They also declined to name the Ferrari's owner until the victims' identities were confirmed.
The Ferrari was traveling south on the narrow road when the driver apparently lost control and hit a telephone pole, said CHP Public Information Officer Leland Tang.
The pole crashed through the passenger compartment and the car then flipped, flinging a large boulder from its resting place, neighbors said.
The car stopped in a corral owned by actress Morgan Brittany. "I heard a screaming engine coming around the curb, and the next thing I heard was a horrific crash," she said.
In February, the nonfatal crash of a $1-million Ferrari Enzo drew national attention.
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
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thats crazy
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Good.
Any police officer should know better than racing on the PUBLIC road.
No pity here.
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I read nowhere in that saying that they were racing and no death is good.
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removal of stupid people is always good. IF they were driving faster than they could handle (and above posted speeds), then they got what they deserved. WHo cares if it was a CHP officer or some jerk off the street. You can't go around pretending you are Mivheal Schumacher in your Ferrari just becase you feel like it. Darwins theory of natural selection.... It's too bad the idiot driver had to take the passenger with him though.
1972 240Z 4-speed, header, 3.54 R200, Crane XR-3000 Ignition, 280Z tach, Tokico Blue Struts, Suspension Tech Springs, Poly Bushings. Visit me at my website for your custom EFI & restored Datsun parts
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If removal of stupid people is good, we all should be dead.
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"I read nowhere in that saying that they were racing and no death is good"
A Ferrari that leaves the road out of control in a CORNER and with enough speed to hit a pole and kill the occupants IS GOING faster than posted speed limits. DUH! Call it racing or call it showing off, he was intentionally breaking the law and thus intentionally endangering himself, his passenger, and anyone else near by.
Yes, death is good when it prevents idiots from endangering others. Thank goodness this maniac is dead and not slamming into a mother, a girl friend, a baby or a scool bus that is comming the other way and dang glad that he hit a pole instead.
A:
I watch car racing sometimes and I see crashes. They are professional drivers with a great amount of experience yet they still make mistakes. I also see people crash and die in Honda Civics and Ford Taurus wagons.
Were all of these people pushing their vehicles beyond their ability too?
You assume they were racing. You assume they were being stupid. You assume they were exceding their skill as a driver.
You is in the plural tense here.
1993 300zx NA
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"You assume they were racing. You assume they were being stupid. You assume they were exceding their skill as a driver."
No,
Anyone that looses a Ferarri in a corner on city streets is NOT driving the speed limit. It's not an assumption, it's a fact.
A:
"Anyone that looses a Ferarri in a corner on city streets is NOT driving the speed limit. It's not an assumption, it's a fact."
Let me preface this by saying he was probably speeding.
Let's list some of the myriad implications of your sentence here, hybrid.
1. A Ferrari driver who picks up a flat in a corner and therefore loses control is a priori speeding.
2. A Ferrari driver who runs into a slick of oil in a corner and therefore loses control is a priori speeding.
3. A Ferrari driver whose rear tires spin out due to loose gravel on the roadway is de facto speeding, otherwise he would have maintained traction.
4. A Ferrari driver who has a sudden onset of epilepsy, causing him to lose control and lose the corner, must have been speeding while the seizure happened.
5. A Ferrari driver who is momentarily blinded by an oncoming car's headlights, resulting in a loss of control, is necessarily speeding.
It's one thing to argue a point confidentely or even brusquely, but it's another to say that a statement with a billion counterexamples is FACT.
You mean to tell me that the only reason someone could lose it in a corner is because they're speeding?
With that kind of confidence, you should start a religion.
'74 260z---NA L28 MSnS-E w/ Innovate Wideband
Already sparking, soon to be squirting.
Cogito, ergo dolorum.
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...maybe they should've just put wings on Ferraris. I find it hard a curve
would make the car go air-born unless it had a rise or bump though.
...maybe slide off road, but air-born again? I don't imagine Ferrari is paying attention to this, after all, there's probably a back-order in the states for them anyway...Wynn Casino couldn't even keep displays I hear.
hmmm...1993, do you think it was paid for yet?
(no comment regarding occupants......didn't deserve any)
RISK...that's what it is and BIG one at that.....when you get hit head-on by someone passing on a "double-yellow" on a curve like I have, you'll know
what RISK we all take just being in a car! Its the "other" guy we all have to watch out for regardless of how good we think our driving is. Always
be ready for a way out....I think that's partly what they mean by leaving
some "compromise" space.
'73 240z, sitting 16 years in garaged storage...Spring 2005 endeavor...
Twin Cities, Mn
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free passing judgment anyone?
c'mon guys this is a clear case of breaking the law by the law enforcement autorithy..also they were gay..n drugs were involved but for sure will be a cover up by the lahp, aclu, atf, etc etc....two people die, one by choice (poor choice, who cares) the other may,may not, be the real victim..the good no other parties involved..DEATH by hanging to whoever endanger the life of others on the highways!!!!
Have you shared the left lane today?
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Can we assume the Ferrari was red?
What about that "screaming" engine?
What was it screming?
Can we trust the obervational skills of an "actress"? - in a corral? - named "Brittany"?
What was that corral for? Who or what was being corralled?
Inquiring minds want to know. The suspicions grow with the "may have"
"are believed to be" - all speculation and conjecture? - or just coincidence?
What are and who is behind this "alleged" cover up? And Why?
Two Ferrari crashes in four months? - And why was "that" "particular" telephone pole place at "that" "particular" corner?
Coincidence????????????
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
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LOL
Have you shared the left lane today?
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I'm a happier person than I was five minutes ago. I rather dislike Ferraris and cops irritate me. The driver was probably an idiot, so it all works out in my favor.
'88 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme :(
Stock '86 z31 300zx NA
No car should ever be driven without some degree of fear
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Geezus, some people comments onthis thread show how stupid they actually are. Yup all wrecks HAVE to be caused by speeding out of control cars. Which moron said that up above?
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Anyone who says they 'got' what they deserve are completely idiots. Apparently you've never done anything wrong, which I know is complete bull$hit. So, I'll hope you die too then? Jaded pieces of garbage.
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Just because I'm calling others idiots doesn't mean that I think I'm better than them. I'm just saying it was an idiotic move, which I have been known to make. As for your wish of my eventual demise, just give it time.
'88 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme :(
Stock '86 z31 300zx NA
No car should ever be driven without some degree of fear
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Correct, I have NEVER driven like that (since I am ALIVE, DUH!) so I can say that people that DO it will risk their death and the death of others. This is a classice EXAMPLE that should confirm the obvious .
If you borrow someone's Ferrari, there is a temptation to "see what it will do". This cop (just like anyone) should not do that. If you do you can die. He died. The lesson is don't do that. Simple.
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4. A Ferrari driver who has a sudden onset of epilepsy, causing him to lose control and lose the corner, must have been speeding while the seizure happened.
Who wants to be protected by an epileptic cop?
5. A Ferrari driver who is momentarily blinded by an oncoming car's headlights, resulting in a loss of control, is necessarily speeding.
I was always taught to not look directly into the high beams when i'm driving a motor vehicle.
1976 280Z
Draw-Through Turbo, 10 PSI, 4 Bbl Holley, E88, L28 (Flat), 10:1 CR, 5 Spd
1974 Corvette Stingray:
350, 400 Automatic, T-Tops, 8.5:1 CR, 78,000 Miles
1994 Acura Integra:
1.8L, 5 Spd, 189,000 and Counting!
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You're all missing the main reason that this all happened.
It was preordained! A silver Testarossa is blasphemy, and could not survive in the current plain of space time.
Hell, "red" is in the NAME!!!
-----
Pete1978z: "It's not that I think stupidity should be punishable by death, I just think we should take the warning labels off of everything and let the problem take care of itself."
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Amazing absolutely amazing. The lack of human decency here is appalling.
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And yet, Jacko and OJ are still with us...
Rusty but running.
Polish cell phone and two tubes of Aluma-seal.
And, now we are historic.
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What was a cop doing driving a Ferrari? I know it could have been a friends or what not but i cant get my head around it.
79' 280zx aka "rusty"
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they never said the cop was driving nor whos car it was. it leads me to believe he and and friend could have been joyriding in a car that had previously been impounded.
'79 280zx driver/project
'90 240sx sold :-(
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When a highway patrol officer ignors the laws that he has sworn to uphold and dies as a result of it, then there should be no pity. I don't care if he was "off duty" since the laws are the same whether he's on the clock or not.
Here in Texas, police routinely ignore the road laws that the rest of us have to follow. And yes, I have laughed and honked the horn after a cop passed me and then drove off a turn into a ditch (as he was heading back to the station house at the end of his shift).
Like I said, I'm glad that the only killed themselves and did not kill someone else by their disregard for the laws of shared access public roads. Glad there was a tree and not a kindergarden playground that stopped them.
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"4. A Ferrari driver who has a sudden onset of epilepsy, causing him to lose control and lose the corner, must have been speeding while the seizure happened.
Who wants to be protected by an epileptic cop?
5. A Ferrari driver who is momentarily blinded by an oncoming car's headlights, resulting in a loss of control, is necessarily speeding.
I was always taught to not look directly into the high beams when i'm driving a motor vehicle."
Epilepsy can sometimes manifest late in life with no previous history of an episode. There is a smashed-up Corrado in my apartment parking lot that represents a young woman's first epileptic seizure. She has not yet been cleared to drive again for obvious reasons.
I don't think most people are dumb enough to purposefully look into a source of bright light at night. Night blindness can occur nonetheless.
In any case, there are a billion counterexamples to Hybrid's assertion, which was the topic of my post.
'74 260z---NA L28 MSnS-E w/ Innovate Wideband
Already sparking, soon to be squirting.
Cogito, ergo dolorum.
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What do headlights have to do with anything at 3:15 in the afternoon?
There are a billion things you can "make up" to to try to confuse the issue of being way too fast in the first place. My assertion is based on physics, an eye witness account, the CHP report, and pictures of the crashed car and the sheered off utility pole. Your ascertains are based on nothing more than making things up.
Why not get at least get some relevant information about the topic before posting an opinion? An opinion without knowledge is stupidity.
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When a highway patrol officer ignors the laws that he has sworn to uphold and dies as a result of it, then there should be no pity. I don't care if he was "off duty" since the laws are the same whether he's on the clock or not.
Here in Texas, police routinely ignore the road laws that the rest of us have to follow. And yes, I have laughed and honked the horn after a cop passed me and then drove off a turn into a ditch (as he was heading back to the station house at the end of his shift).
I've been saying this for years. There should actually be heavier penalties for cops who think they are above the law. Their argument is that more restrictions & they would not be able to do their job effectively. BS on that. If you did your job correctly & followed the laws you enforce upon the public there is no need to break them. I'm with you this....no sympathy...they should be shot & pissed on....not necessarly in that order.
This whole world smells bad, I'd buy another if I had
back what I paid for another mother@#$%@# in a motorcade
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Lets start a rumor it was someones grandmothers car. I love the way stories get all out of hand and context.
I went on a motorcycle ride one year with 40 or so off duty vacationing highway patrol officers. For 2 weeks I watched and participated in everything you could imagine a law officer would never do when off duty. I had so much fun breaking speed limits and every other road law in existence with no fear of being ticketed. We were pulled over several times by on duty highway patrol officers and even some city cops and it just turned into a even bigger party afterwards. Off duty cops liekto let off steam thats for sure.
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Apparently being human and making mistakes means you have to die, I'm not saying that he wasn't responsible, it was his own fault. But people who say things like some have said here are simply TERRIBLE PEOPLE. You must not believe in God, to say the things that you have.
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seven-day-revolution,
I believe in God. God also holds people to account for their "human mistakes". Follow God's example and tell people not to do stupid things because of the consequenses.
No one ever said that they were "happy" that 2 men died, just that they knew better (so there should be no pity for people that intentionally kill themselves). There is relief that their disregard for their own lives did not take the life of someone else! That is what we good people can all be "happy" about.
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intentionally kill themselves? when did they do that? I'm glad they didnt' hurt anyone as well, obviously. But good people have 'compassion' - but from the postings I'm not hearing that. They MAY have been otherwise great people, so that is why people who would say such things make me ill. You judge someone on the ONE thing you know about them, that's pretty harsh...
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A momentary lack of judgement doesn't mean that everything the person did up to that point is worth nothing. Maybe he was otherwise a really good guy.
I'm sure glad that nobody here has ever done anything stupid!
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1976 Datsun 280Z 2+2:
-'81 L28ET with 1984 Z31 ECCS
-'81 Turbo snowflakes
-205/60/15 BFG G-Force Sports
-Tokico springs and HP shocks
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i never understood the mentality of some on here....like if you don't have an alarm on your car you deserve or asked to have your car stolen...or you were speeding and thus deserve to die. one momentray lapse of judgement....and death was well warranted...esp when no one even knows the f$%king circumstances around the accident.....some people are a f$%ckng joke. f%ck anyone who said his death was well deserved or even warranted...
Post Edited (May 25, 5:03pm)
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bama I couldnt agree more. Last year I had a friend taken from me in a car wreck similar to this. A page back is a video of him street racing where people on this site were saying how nice the 280 in the video is. Well, the owner of the 350z in the video was killed in a car wreck last year. No one knows what really happened that night as the passenger in the car doesnt remember. But, even if he was racing that still didnt warrant his death. Oh and for those of you who think it does go tell that **** in person to these peoples families and friends. Once again some of you people on this site absolutely sicken me.
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c'mon... who are we joking.... it's human nature.... holding cops to following the law is like holding the gov't to following the law.... it is their job to enforce the law on the public, what they do is a different story....... that's how it is, and that's how it will always be........ it's sad when a human life is lost, period...... some people are just quicker to the punch.... and when they take out others, because of their negligence, that's an awful situation, no matter how you look at it
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"There are a billion things you can "make up" to to try to confuse the issue of being way too fast in the first place. My assertion is based on physics, an eye witness account, the CHP report, and pictures of the crashed car and the sheered off utility pole. Your ascertains are based on nothing more than making things up.
Why not get at least get some relevant information about the topic before posting an opinion? An opinion without knowledge is stupidity."
Oh, I must have gotten confused. I do that sometimes. I thought you said:
"ANYONE that looses a Ferarri in a corner on city streets is NOT driving the speed limit. It's not an assumption, it's a FACT.(my emphasis added)"
As opposed to something like the following statement, which you apparently meant or somehow said:
'Based of of the specific details of that particular accident, including eyewitness accounts, police reports, and pictures of damaged terrain, I can conclude beyond a resonable doubt that the subject was speeding, though I make no judgment call on the actions of other Ferrari drivers involved in other accidents involving losing control in corners whatsoever as I am not privy to said details in those cases.'
Like I said in my original post, the guy was probably speeding. However, the statement you made was a bit broader than whether or not this particular individual was speeding.
Therefore, regardless of the background information I have collected about the incident, and whether or not I agree with you that the subject was speeding, I am still entitled from an intellectual standpoint to call BS after my own particular idiom.
Your statement was asinine; your general assessment of the case seems sound.
I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.
'All people over 40 should be given lethal injections' is a little different than saying 'one particular individual over 40 years of age who happens to be a convicted multiple murderer of children should be given a lethal injection'.
The contrast should be nary too difficult to discern for one such as you, who has so much knowledge from which to form his opinions.
Unfortunately, though, an opinion without knowledge is *ignorance*. An opinion without *intelligence* is stupidity.
'74 260z---NA L28 MSnS-E w/ Innovate Wideband
Already sparking, soon to be squirting.
Cogito, ergo dolorum.
Post Edited (May 25, 7:15pm)
A:
Death is the "risk" you take by driving well beyong speed limits so death should not be a surprise here. I feel the same as when I hear that a kid blows his head off by playing a game with a gun and 5 empty chambers. It's basically "well duh" since such things are not simple "mistakes". A law officer driving with enough speed to "fly" a Ferrari was also taking the same risk as a gun to his head. It is stupid behavior.
Pity is for people that deserve it. Scorn is for people that invite disaster. The answer is "well. that's what you get" applies here.
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man.. if i was a CHP and saw a fast car in the impound and i new damn well i could never afford anytihng like that nor have the chance never to drive one again.. id take the damn thing out and drive the **** out of it. at least.. if i died i died in an enzo or whatever and not in a geo crossing the road. or on a bike and have a mesican pull out in front of me. just my opinion. im young and dumb and lust after speed
-1988 300zxt Shiro SS edition, 120,000 miles
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"im young and dumb and lust after speed"
So I guess you know why your insurance company sticks it to you? Add a sports car to that attitude and I'm surprised that more people are not killed every year on U.S. public use roads.
The Germans actually got it right. Speed does not kill, attitudes do. You can drive as fast as you want (on roads designed for speed) as long as you are not reckless.
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"your random sayings aren't intelligent, so you may as well quit saying them as if they actually mean something"
Quote from: Seven-Day-Revolution
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WTF? I was quoting shiro300zx to frame my response.
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On a related subject, err, I'd like to "corral" that litttle Britany Murphy. Norm K
Norman Krell
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Pity is for people that deserve it. Scorn is for people that invite disaster. The answer is "well. that's what you get"
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Bingo.
Pity is not for every situation, nor is scorn.
Only Mr. T will pity a fool.
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those were the sayings I was referring to
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Seven-day-revolution, when using the written language, if you learn the rules of puctuation, you would not need 3 additional posts just to expain what you are trying to say. Thank you.
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If you would have understood the first one, you're right, it wouldn't have been necessary
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Correct.
Unless you use puntuation, you will not convey your thoughts well in print and you will not be unserstood. It would obviously also help YOU to understand what others are saying, like when I correctly used quotation marks to indicate a common saying.
Before you get upset, you might re-read my posts with someone that understands grammar and punctuation. As I said before, no one is glad about people dying, but most are not surprised by it when it comes to those that court it. There is a difference.
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the attitude of a few on here is still disgusting in my opinion. I'm done with the topic, since no one's mind will obviously change anyway, and we're on page 2 here. The whole quotation thing is ridiculous, I didn't incorrectly use them, so I'm not understanding you there. See ya.
Don't speed.
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I have no attitude. All the facts point out that they were not only driving beyond the rules of the road but also beyond the driving linitations of a Ferrari Testarossa. If you do that, you crash. Exceeing those limits on a public use road should be criminal since it very well could have killed others.
The only thing that is ridiculous is how they were driving on a public road. Their attitude is what killed them. End of story.
How anyone "feels" about it will not bring them back.
How anyone "feels" about how someone else "feels" about it is even more irrelevant.
Post Edited (May 29, 8:14am)
A:
71' 240Z L28ET 417 rwhp
73' 240Z 7MGTE 533rwhp
Post Edited (Nov 24, 11:08am)