A&Q about 350Z
Q:
The meatheaded, thickskulled ignoramuses at the MSA Car Show who absolutely, postiviely, couldn't live without leaving the show site in a moronic display of boiling tires and squealies...
Directly from the mouth of one of the employees behind the counter while witnessing one of these displays: "That's the exact reason we won't be able to get a permit for the car show next year!"
These idiots who HAVE to prove something in a show of absolutely nothing, will ruin it for everyone!
They have absolutely no idea of how hard it it to work with the City of Orange to get this event put on every year. This year it almost didn't happen due to the enormous hurdles the City put up regarding a show of this type.
All over SoCal, municipalities are clamping down on the old fashioned close-the-street block party style car shows. They are dropping like flies. ESTABLISHED shows.
And the thing they point to is behaviour exactly like this.
Knowing what MSA goes through to put this show on, I want to say thank you a thousand times---there is not a better group of people to be involved with... It is a shame they put so much effort forth to make a great show, and then have absolutely no control over the participants and can only shake their heads in disbelief when people who attend the show "Thank Them" in such a manner.
Kind of like smearing feces on the walls of your friends' bathroom before you leave after dinner.
To think paying police overtime to get squadcars positioned at the exit gates before the car show closes may be the only way to nail these morons, I would ante up some funds personally to insure the show continues.
What is so hard about being respectful to your hosts?
Some people make me sick. Bad Form, bad form indeed.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
I could't agree more, I have seen this many times at Z shows and "other" car shows. Wish I new the answer to stop it.
93 TT- N/A to TT, Auto to 5 speed, upgrade central. Stage ...Fast!
A:
its cool to look at, but i wouldnt do that, kinda makes u look like a ******* hotshot
73' 240z: F54 4.2L, OS Giken LY DOHC Crossflow head, 17:3comp.ratio, N33, Tripple SU's, T10 Hybrid Draw-Through TT @ 47pds, Roots&Centrifugal Type supercharger, 3-2-1 headers, Centerforce 4 clutch, 6oz flywheel, R300 differential, Super-Hicas
A:
well i hope they put on many more shows, I would want to come down one of these times from Canada and meet all of you guys regardles your toughts on my posts etc.
A:
This is your best rant yet since I have been on here Tony....its always some screw ups that spoil it for the majority of respectful people.....in my former home town they used to have a treasure hunt every year and the person who found the "medallion" got 5 thousand dollars. Until idiots started digging up golf courses and destroying other property...
1976 280z 2+2 - Risen from the dead - garaged since 1988. Pallnet Fuel Rail and guage - ES rack and front bushings - 260Z 4Speed - Arizona Z Car Clutch - H4 Lights - Lots more to come...
A:
You forgot about the morons racing up and down the streets around the show. Before the show even started there were three cars racing down Battavia with people lined up along the street waiting to get in. Not smart at all.
Now Z-less
89 Mazda MX-6 GT Turbo 5 speed
88 Mazda MX-6 GT Turbo Automatic
05 Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins 4x4
A:
Tony,
I understand your rage, in autocross we have similar problems. There is one thing we do that MSA doesn't do though. That is post pre-warnings along with the flyers about hot dogging. And during the announcements warn people about burnouts when they leave. I think if they did that 95% of the burnouts would be eliminated. I wish I could have been at the show.
Art Rinner
1983 280ZXT Daily Driver
1975 280Z Co-Daily Driver
1973 240ZT New Autox Car Too much to list
1973 240ZT Uber Race Car (under construction)
Owner Sunrise Z in Glendale, CA
A:
yeah that's right! get people outside and inside to remind people not to light up the tires.get some bull horns or whatever and just start announcing periodicaly.well i hope over all the show went great.tony i hope to see you in temecula.i think i'm going to bring my son he enoyed it last year.if it's just him and i,i won't chance bringing the Z up with the tranny issues.if the wife comes i'll probably chance it.hope to see whoever shows up on sunday.my b-day is on tuesday so any belated b-day gifts will be excepted.i could use a new tranny and someone to help put it in.:)
Z's are like woman maintenance,maintenance,maintenance!
1971 240Z gunmetal metalic 5sp 4:11 gears in the rear
illuminas and purchased from the original owner w/136k original miles
A:
WOW ...
I was at last years MSA ... as far as I recall .. no such behavior .. maybe I left before the "incidents" ...
My guess is that identifying the "demonstrators" won't be too difficult .. (I'm sure there will posts of bragging on some forums) .. so somehow I don't think those Z owners are'nt UNKNOWN ... and probably affiliated with a Z club.
The local Z clubs should have kept their membership in check .. as a matter of fact .. all z clubs should have kept their membership "in check" ..
just paZZ'n thru
A:
PCA has a good way to deal with that... @uck up, and you don't come back...period, no matter who you are.
The first PCA meet I ever went to one Zcar guy went stupid, and they almost made all the Zcars leave, but they realized the moron was not with us, and let us stay. They don't play at ALL when it comes to being a moron.
Sad to say, but not all people old enough to drive are old enough to drive.
Rock on guys, glad everyone had fun.... At 3 bucks a gallon, too damn far me to tow a car.
Ken
'82ZX n/a 2+2
'02 Sportster XL1200C
A:
may be start giving tickets say 500 bucks a pop to those who roast some tires and let there be a couple of cops who would enforce this law, this will stop in a flash
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'74 2+2 -- MSA sway bars, Illuminas, Eibach Progressive, Energy Suspension
L28 with MN47, 240Z rods, milled down dished pistons (11.6:1 CR) and 240sx tranny
======
committing suicide in small managable payments
A:
Manners are taught in the home - if not
the schools try - but shouldn't have to
so it's up to the rest of us in any sport or activity.
Teach the idiots some manners and I don't mean ruffing them up.
Tell one and all what is expected and what is not tolerated. Tell them why. And - tell them again. Then kick them out if they don't listen.
"Fun to watch" - ah no. There is a time and a place for everything.
When so many are ready to disapprove of your activities ( guns, cars, some sports -whatever) and even to ban it becase they don't approve - then that group has to police themselves.
These morons are trampling your rights and my rights (Life, Liberty AND the pursuit (if it harms no one) of Happiness).
Zero tolerance of rude and possible dangerous behavior is the only way to preserve a hobby that others will try to ban.
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
A:
Every year people burn out, race around the surrounding streets etc etc etc.. Its nothing new at all for this show. I witnessed it last year and the year previous. If I recall someone even video taped last years exhibitions of speed showing off to the cheers of hundreds of other z owners atttending and watching from the curb as they left. Myself and lots of others happen to like it.
A:
Well 240zcar .. yes it can be fun.. but that is where irwindale dragstrip... AutoX opentrackevents .. and so on are for.. .i actually was in the store when that comment was made .. it is stupid to do round a show .. as the citycouncil .. might not happen to like it .. people that live there .. might not happen to like it.
Please do this on your own time.. not when you represent the zcar comunity and MSA.
Putting up these hows is harder than you think..
Actually i like driving .. and believe me not slow either ... just dont at show.. if you want to display your power .. go dragging.. or do it at home fa away from this event
You can sleep in your car, but cant drive in your house
if you are fully in control, you are not driving fast enough!
79 ZXR 46K!
81 ZXT EURO 2+2
83 ZXT
All fine Fastback winnabego's
A:
"Every year people burn out, race around the surrounding streets etc etc etc.. Its nothing new at all for this show. I witnessed it last year and the year previous. If I recall someone even video taped last years exhibitions of speed showing off to the cheers of hundreds of other z owners atttending and watching from the curb as they left. Myself and lots of others happen to like it."
Spectators and NON-PARTICIPANTS cheered. Almost all the people still on the street were JEERING, not cheering!
Yeah, and every year, more and more of the businesses in the area complain about these type of shennanagins, and the more the city council gets along those lines, the HARDER AND HARDER it is to get the permit.
Such comments of blatant self-absorption are the primary reason shows like this get cancelled.
240zcar, take a look at the comments, they are running at this point 13:1 AGAINST your view.
Take that as a hint, grow up, and stop being part of the problem.
There were 600+ Z-Cars at this event, I would say well over 575 left without spinning their tires or making any kind of unrequired commotion.
About like the comments are running in the forum currently.
It's the people like this that ruin it for the MAJORITY.
Maybe this is the draw, you need to feel some sort of power---grow up!
The staff at MSA was very upset. I saw it firsthand. THEY are the ones that count, they know what hard work and toil went into putting the show on and making it the success it is today. They know that this kind of thing will ruint their hard work. You make everything they do get rubbed out in a flash!
To show such disrespect to your host is intolerable, and shows no class whatsoever. There is no "burnout contest" here, it's an illegal display of speed. Next year (IF they get the permit!) I hope they pay for some police overtime, and really NAIL these clowns.
Everyone seems to forget 8 years ago when there were 6 motorcycle cops with radar guns on the corner of Kattella and main...
They got lucky with a field day of idiots. This time, I say INVITE them!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Maybe next year we put up a bounty. See someone do something stupid, get the plates, get $50.
- John
A:
73' 240z: F54 4.2L, OS Giken LY DOHC Crossflow head, 17:3comp.ratio, N33, Tripple SU's, T10 Hybrid Draw-Through TT @ 47pds, Roots&Centrifugal Type supercharger, 3-2-1 headers, Centerforce 4 clutch, 6oz flywheel, R300 differential, Super-Hicas
Post Edited (May 1, 9:11am)
A:
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/view?&h=98&w=145&type=mpeg&rurl=www.speakeasy.net%2F%7Ebrandon.yu&vurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speakeasy.org%2F%7Ebrandon.yu%2Fmsa_sounds_2005.mpeg1.mpeg&back=p%3Dmsa%2Bz-car%26fr%3DFP-tab-vid-t%26toggle%3D1%26cop%3D%26ei%3DUTF-8&turl=scd.mm-so.yimg.com%2Fimage%2F1705663487&name=%3Cb%3Emsa%3C%2Fb%3E_sounds_2005.mpeg1.mpeg&no=1&tt=7058&p=msa+z-car&oid=ae63c784d0158648&size=24.9MB&dur=146
73' 240z: F54 4.2L, OS Giken LY DOHC Crossflow head, 17:3comp.ratio, N33, Tripple SU's, T10 Hybrid Draw-Through TT @ 47pds, Roots&Centrifugal Type supercharger, 3-2-1 headers, Centerforce 4 clutch, 6oz flywheel, R300 differential, Super-Hicas
A:
Hey Datto you need to raise your HP estimate in your siganture. You know a 4.0 L 29:1 CR with 47 psi would make more HP. haha
As far as displays of HP go , just have big azz signs around the venue and perhaps that would solve the problem.
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
well...uhh.. i got a exhaust leak
73' 240z: F54 4.2L, OS Giken LY DOHC Crossflow head, 17:3comp.ratio, N33, Tripple SU's, T10 Hybrid Draw-Through TT @ 47pds, Roots&Centrifugal Type supercharger, 3-2-1 headers, Centerforce 4 clutch, 6oz flywheel, R300 differential, Super-Hicas
A:
yeah yeah that's the ticket.... you're probably losing at least 20 more lbs. of boost. haha
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
I agree,that behavior cant be tolerated. I also agree that they should have mentioned it over their loud speaker and really emphasized the negative effects it will have on the future of the show. I'm sure most werent trying to be malitious, but just plain werent thinking.Had they been warned, they may have remembered not to light'em up.Before you flame me and say that they shouldnt have to mention it and that everyone should know better ( I feel the same way ) , it would still be in their best interest
1970 240zt 326whp 320ft/lbs @ 13 psi,
A:
so im sure the people that were doing these particular acts of...showing off...are known, so if anyone knows who it was or what the car looked like post their names orthe cars picture and any club affiliates of said individuals.
im curious if this was on the still closed street or after they left and were off the closed street.
A:
Author: briann510
Date: May 1, 11:24pm
so im sure the people that were doing these particular acts of...showing off...are known, so if anyone knows who it was or what the car looked like post their names orthe cars picture and any club affiliates of said individuals.
im curious if this was on the still closed street or after they left and were off the closed street.
===========
I'm sure there will be videos posted someplace ..
and my guess is that this occured after exiting the main show street .. just past the barriers ... its where the pics from last year were shot ...
just paZZ'n thru
A:
You'll never stop it completely. But good ideas so far:
* Post signs prominently at the show saying these displays threaten its future.
* Announce it frequently over the loudspeaker.
* Print it in prominently in RED CAPITOL letters in the entry forms, and note that any cars/applicants who are caught doing burnouts (or playing rap music . . . sorry, couldn't resist) will not be allowed to enter the following year.
I personally had a terrific time. Got my Z fix for months. Just there Sunday as I had commitments the other days, but Wow. It was great. Met a lot of great people, tho no one from this site (Dave from Arizona Z, does he come here?) One guy flew in from Florida just for the show. Great, great show. They really do a nice job. If I had wishes for future Nats
* a poker run on Saturday would be nice for the non-autoX guys
* better prizes. $100 MSA gift certificates, set of Panasports, set of Illuminas -- those would really keep people there until the end. Plus have a special prize just for owners of entered cars (walk-ins not eligible). They'd just call the car number, so even a guy with a beater could win.
* Discounts, discounts, discounts. The Tokico guys should do a 4 for the price of three thing with Illuminas and blues; same with Eibach, etc. MSA should offer show special discounts. I know putting together a deal like this ain't cheap, but wow, 25% off on stuff, free hats and other incentives would have those lines out the door twice as long and that much more $$$ for the bottom line.
All in all, terrific. Huge compared to my first one 5-6 years ago. Hope the dates are good for me next year.
'76 280Z driver, '75 parts car
A:
From the history book:
Back in the 1950's street racing gave hot rods and all car enthusiasts a bad name:
car people got together and started NHRA (if I have that right) and other groups that have made the car hobby what it is today.
Back then car club members were encouraged to help other motorists stranded on the road - instead of taking tips they would give the motorist a card saying "You have been helped by - insert name - car club or racing group. This created a lot of good will and changed some minds about the motoring sport.
I keep saying - "A time and a place for everything"
It's time to police ourselves, work with the police to help them help keep our sport safe - do good works in the community to enhance the image of car clubs.
Ever see a liter of dogs, the big older dogs will sometimes smack and bark at the pups who get out of hand. OK big dogs - time to go to work.
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
A:
Tony,
I think there were more than 25 leaving in a tire spinning display. If it needs to stop it is simple. Remove the people video taping at the corners and one cop with a camera. hand out flyers advising what will happen if caught. The result would be the punishmant handed out by the authorities and a ban from next years event.
www.zselect.com
75 280Z Current project car
75 280Z Hybrid Chevy 350
90 300ZX Just for fun
A:
"Had they been warned, they may have remembered not to light'em up."
Everyone got a yellow handout at registration, containing rules of conduct.
Saying you have to state the obvious is really dumbing down the expectations of the masses.
It shouldn't have to be said!
The ironic thing is the police station is on the next block, if you can hear the idiots burning out as they exit the show on Collins and Main, you can sure as hell bet they can hear them at the stationhouse on Batavia and Struck...
Idiots are idiots, I like the bounty suggestion above.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Some were done while people were in the street as the closed.
Some were done as they exited the closed street onto Main.
Some were done on Main, after exiting the show, but still well within sight (stone's throw) from the corner of the closed street.
In ALL cases, it is at least a ticket---they are ALL public streets subject to the CVC.
In the case of people doing it on the closed show venue street with people on the street, that is plain Reckless Driving, and makes the person subject to ticket and immediate impound!
It was a really classless show of disrespect towards the hosts of the show.
They put on a great event, and one would think to show our appreciation for such a great weekend, or great show, the least they could do would e act civilized!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (May 1, 10:52pm)
A:
"(or playing rap music . . . sorry, couldn't resist)"
The city of Orange has ALREADY limited the show to a "no music playing form displayed vehicles" and "no engines started or run by displayed vehicles" condition into the show!
It was PROMINENTLY listed in the "Yellow Sheet" every participant received when they got their registration bag.
They (The City of Orange) have ALREADY put limitations, this will only add to more in the future!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Cmon Tony , you of all people know that the masses MUST be dumbed down to and that including this important rule amongst a list of less important, more easily enforcable rules isnt enough. A sad reality is that you HAVE to say something just to cover your own arse. You, me,them, we all uderstand acceptable behavior, the problem is,THEY dont understand and no matter what event it is or what group it is, THEY will always need to be told, loud and clear. Bummed I missed the show.......
1970 240zt 326whp 320ft/lbs @ 13 psi,
A:
While people should have respected the car show rules since there was a handout, the real issue here TonyD is ******* city government regulations.
I mean come on IT'S A CAR SHOW and they won't even let them play music or start their engines?
Doing burnouts per say is not dangerous as the car is generally sitting still or moving forward slowly if it's done properly.Although SPEEDING near pedestrians is Fing STUPID!
In a way not being able to do burnouts or rev your motor or play music at a car show is like going on a date with a Super Model and not even being able to talk to her or even hold her hand!! LOL
City Government is made up of car hating ******* liberal tree huggers in almost every jurisdiction.
Most of the COPS I have personally known AND driven with DO burnouts and race and top their personal cars out on city streets and all WHILE in 35 mh zones.
While selling cas in 1991 I drove with a Florida Highway Patrol Officer named Chris Blackmon on a test drive in a Turbo Eclipse and we were doing 130 mph in a 35 ZONE !! Oh yeah he also did a short burnout at two or three lights. They get to do it cuz they are part of the system.If he had been stopped nothing would have happened.
But, since we all do know that city governemnt is full of liberal tree hugging assholes the rules of the show should have been respected.
Later,Norm
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12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
Sadly, I will have to concede you are probably right, on that point, Roosty.
Given the displays after the show, it appears that LCD is lower than we all previously thought.
I mean, JeffP called me as I was getting on the 91 Freeway out in Riverside the morning of the show (0627), and by 0651 Frank, Xander, and I were in the lineup to enter the show...
But once we were on Katella, it was, as the Beastie Boys said: "Slow and Low"! I could have outdone the Cholos at Lowrider Hopfest XXVII we went so slow. All I know is I don't want anyone pointing at ME as one of the prime reasons an event was cancelled, or not allowed to repeat in a great venue.
And that was first and foremost on my mind "I don't want to be the one everybody points to as the reason when they can't come next year!"
Why more people don't give that some thought is beyond me...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Those rules were put forth by city councils after CITIZENS near the venue complained in years past. Matter of fact, the Motorsports event is pretty tame, and is a PRIME example of OTHER car shows giving US a bad name!
Overall, the people who come to MSA are not "Boom Boom Stereo Soundoff Contestants", while other (ahem, domestic trucks full of speakers, minitrucks full of speakers......) venues are.
Lots of the regulations are because people complained.
When we did the show in Vegas, the cars had to be PUSHED ON PLASTIC (over carpet) to their show spots, with the batteries DISCONNECTED!
There are far more onerous rules. What it comes down to is idiots forcing their will on others around them, and then the "Idiots on the City Council" responding to complaints from CITIZENS OF THEIR COMMUNITY.
Which, I guess is my whole point. I don't live in Orange, I would bet a dollar MOST of the people attending don't live in Orange. The city of Orange, through the great work and graciousness of MSA are so kind as to let us display our cars on a Sunny Sunday Afternoon, have som food, talk with fellow enthusiasts, and have a great time.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO!
But they DO!
And IMO, that is a BIG THING of them to do---try arranging a car sho in a cow pasture someplace. I mean, where are you going to find a place to let you park 600 Z Cars?
To show anthing but total gratitidue to the Hosts (MSA and the city of Orange) is really poor form.
This year, businesses OTHER than MSA were making a killing. People showed up early and CHARGED $5 for parking in their lots across the street! This is starting to be one of those "community enrichment" events.
Jeopardizing that is just plain wrong.
And to think anyone is entitled to play their radio, burn their wheels, or speed during such a gracious invited stay in a community is really boorish to say the least.
I mean, when someone invites you over to their house, do you assume it's O.K. to pull into his garage, and do a burnout? To play your stereo in the room where you sleep loudly while the residents sleep?
I hope mama taught you better than that, and I know she did, Norm!
It's not really Government at this point, it's the lack of civility and the entitlement mentality (as shown above in the post by 240zcar) that will cause incidents that force government to do what it does best: make stupid regulations that clamp down on everyone, at the expense of everyone, for the sake of the few that ruin it for all of us.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
no no no, there conservative stick-up the arse city goverment people
73' 240z: F54 4.2L, OS Giken LY DOHC Crossflow head, 17:3comp.ratio, N33, Tripple SU's, T10 Hybrid Draw-Through TT @ 47pds, Roots&Centrifugal Type supercharger, 3-2-1 headers, Centerforce 4 clutch, 6oz flywheel, R300 differential, Super-Hicas
A:
I agree it's uncalled for and dangerous. More than half to the cars stay on it way too long. A few did it in front of other cars in the show area while leaving. One getting a little sideways. Others you could hear well into third gear after pulling out. Unfortunatly I don't think putting something on the flyer will help. Every year the BRE car starts it up and revs it a few times during the day, easily the loudest car there, others do it too. Many have there stereos going too. Rules don't seem to matter to them. Although not a fan of the police, I think saving some of those early morning free Krispy Kremes and getting 2 cops to sit on the corner for an hour at the end of the show would solve it. They might even make there quota.
71' 240Z L28ET 417 rwhp
73' 240Z 7MGTE 533 rwhp
http://www.geocities.com/clifton_ragland/Z.html
A:
"Every year the BRE car starts it up and revs it a few times during the day, easily the loudest car there, others do it too."
Er, that's not a fair comparison. Two cars the could've been there (but weren't) are considerably louder.
One is an 8.4L Big Block Z that showed up five years ago running straight pipes on the street...
The other is our Bonneville Car. It was just too much to bring the B'ville car into that morass. If you think the BRE Replica is loud (personally I think it sounds a bit flatulent), you should hear 15.75:1 CR popping out through dual 3" exhausts!!!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"