A&Q about 350Z
Q:
First, it's my younger 18 y/o brother's ordeal, but I inherit all the serious problems my family has. He brought his 95 4runner with 120k on it to Fred Haas Toyota in Houston to get the driveshaft, u-joint(s), and front wheel bearings done. He used his last thousand in savings. He earned the money for the car himself, has already bought a new transmission 2k$, all new brakes 700$, all new tires, 700$, and now this 1k$ bill and he's put maybe 1k miles on it total. Not a happy camper but he's doing his best under very difficult circumstances.
So let's get to the point. He brought it to them to start because of the steering recall issued to toyota. He went ahead and trusted them to do the additional work because before independent shops had ripped him off. He was supposed to finally have a dependable car to get to work/school with.
The dealership calls him Tuesday, says its ready to go, all fixed [bad vibrations during tight turns, etc.]. He gets a ride up there today, Thursday, and as he and the tech take it for a test drive to make sure it's too his satisfaction he immediately [and the tech] notice the engine is knocking EXTREMELY bad. The same turning vibrations/sounds are there as well, not the least bit resolved.
So now they say they had nothing to do with the engine problem. It ran perfect before this and I rode in the car to verify it the day before he brought it in. He always checks the oil level because of me and all the obvious is ok. My brother has no money, no way to get to work, and toyota managed to 'accidently' ruin his engine at the same time.
I have sufficient mechanical skills but work 60hrs/week and take nightschool, it's simply not possible to help very much, muchless an engine swap.
Therefore, I am going to speak with the service manager saturday afternoon after I get off work. If it doesn't get resolved, go to corporate? I know Nissan USA has a ladder you 'climb' up but i'm not familiar with toyota at all, never owned one.
Any reasonable explanation how this could happen? All they were supposed to do was do this steering something recall and fix the above mentioned. I've been around the block with cars, had a used car business, probably spent 2,000+ man hours working on various imports over the last few years, and can't think of anything that could have caused it besides just draining all the oil out for fun.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
19[TT]91
My TT beauty is gone.
2[00]2 Honda 954RR
Suzuki 1200 S; sportscar eater
19[I4]94 Integra GSR Sedan
Long live the Z...
aka SAHTT
A:
holy sh*t that sux tell your brother 2 keep his head up! i know what its like 2 brake a new truck ,when my titan was 1500 miles newthe rear end blew ( stupid problem with the early dana axils & e-lockers) scared the crap out of me when it literaly go boom! thank fully nissan was aware of this problem and i had a new rear end 2 days later! i hope toyota does the same with there service ,brand new truck or not it was there liability!
76 280 all stock exept full bushings,qwuik knuckles,tokico struts&springs,3-2 header,k&n cai,msa sway bars,konig rewinds with toyo proxis ra1.
78 rust bucket. (4 sale!)
2000 v-dub mk4 jetta vr6
2005 titan 4x4 with nismo cai,banks exhus
A:
sounds weird, being a dealer tech i'd say since he hadn't taken the vehicle out of their possesion yet that they oh your brother an investigation on why his engine is knocking. it isn't necessarily a rod knock is it. i mean have they already diagnosed the knock? could it be flywheel? i'd demand to get some diag. on the situation before you take it from them.
82 NA 5 spd
77 4 spd
A:
dam that sucks big time. if they cant work anything out get the truck home and away from them, go fill out the small claims form, then if that dont work out, then find time to help your brother replace the engine from a wrecked or junkyard on the weekend. thats about all i can think of
78 280z - daily driver since 91
77 280z - v-8
75 280z - parts car/engine in 78
77 280z - stolen
79 280zx - sold
74 260 z - putting the v-8 in it from the 77
82 280zx - parts car
A:
Do not get upset but it could be a huge coincidence with the engine knocking. I think so, unless you can come up with a resonalbe explanation of how the work they did could affect the engine.
1993 300zx NA
A:
All the dealerships that I've worked at were very strict with customer satisfaction. I would be suprised if you couldn't get resolved with the service manager. If not, go to the general manager of the dealership. Keep climbing, the last thing they want is a bad rep.
______________________________________________
'82 280zx -- 400+hp 355 sbc / T-56
'72 240zt - T3/T4 hybrid / TEC-II / not much stock
'82 280zxt - Stock...for now
'77 280z 2+2 -- Ongoing battle; currently in the process of "ricing
Post Edited (Jul 27, 9:23pm)
A:
>Any reasonable explanation how this could happen?
Toyota? :)
Seriously though, that's their fault... Fight them to get it fixed.
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
A:
if so maybe it just chucked a shim? Toyota used shims to adjust the valve train during that year V6 I beleive. A friend of mine had a very similar issue with his 94. Take a listen where the knock is coming from. That'd be about the correct mileage for such an occurance on a v6 as well. Those shims are a little spendy and you have to buy the correct size. I hope this is your problem. A lot can go wrong on those 4runners, because most of them have been miss-used to hell.
That is if you don't have the 22RE. 2L 4 cylinder.
I should also say that I didn't actually get a look at the assembly, but have comfirmed that Toyota did use shims and that they were troublesome. So maybe it just needs adjustment ..etc.etc...
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Please check out Thanks!
"You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant, excepting Alice"
Post Edited (Jul 28, 12:09am)
A:
if it happend at the dealer THEY are responsible for what happens to the truck, check the receipt, just talk to the sale rep.
----------------------------------------------------
1981 n/a 280zx
1952 m38a1 jeep willy's
1971 fairlady 240z
95 300zx N/A
72 240z
A:
OK....He buys a 95 vehicle with 120k miles, he's already spent about $3400 on other issues and has only drove it about 1000 miles...So now he takes it to dealership to get driveshaft, u-joints and front wheel bearings, repaired, replaced. They fix this issues - or supposedly do- but now the motor is knocking. How can you say that this is definately their fault. An 11 year old vehicle with 120k miles, that he's only drove for 1000 miles...I don't care what kind of make or model it's still mechanical and things brake..PO's don't change fluids, filters, drive hard. It may be the dealers fault...but just because they have it and it brakes doesn't automatically make it their fault. Sure follow their chain of command, but without some hard proof I don't see how you can assume that it's their problem. I'm not trying to bash anyone, this just hit a nerve. Good luck getting the issue resolved and sorry for your brothers bad luck.
1981zx na..auto..t-top...midnight snack for rust monster
03 Montero Sport AWD
04 Buick Rendezvous CXL...Family's gotta ride in something...
A:
Changing ujoints does not cause a knock, Should have bought a better truck & not spent so much fixing a piece of junk. Or at least looking at it like a Z only needing "a little work & few upgrades".
Anyone can drive a new car.
A:
jdbaker73 I'm fully aware of your side of the story. But where do you draw the line? What if it was a 2000 vehicle with 50k miles? 2003 just out of warranty with 37k miles? Engines do NOT just start knocking completely out of the blue. I'll look into the shims. The car had been well maintained before we got it, just bad luck. We should have caught the wheel bearings going, but the PO had receipts for fluid changes, timing belt change, etc. It was also a 1 owner vehicle.
It is indeed the V6 engine. The engines are pretty tought and I doubt it was abused by the previous party or my brother. After losing the transmission for seemingly no reason he drove it so gently it was almost sad.
If you brought a relatively healthy car in to a 'xxxxxxx' dealership for a RECALL, then had some wheel bearings replaced, would you be a bit irritated that the engine was blown up when you went to pick it up?
19[TT]91
My TT beauty is gone.
2[00]2 Honda 954RR
Suzuki 1200 S; sportscar eater
19[I4]94 Integra GSR Sedan
Long live the Z...
aka SAHTT
A:
Hey junkman, I'll give you my paypal address and you can send me the money so my brother can get a better truck. It's easy to tell people what they should have done. He did the best he could given his circumstances. What is he supposed to do, spend 5k on a truck, have the transmission blow up, so sell it 2 months later for maybe, 2k? Start over from scratch? You tell someone who worked at minimum wage all through highschool to buy a decent vehicle cash to do that.
19[TT]91
My TT beauty is gone.
2[00]2 Honda 954RR
Suzuki 1200 S; sportscar eater
19[I4]94 Integra GSR Sedan
Long live the Z...
aka SAHTT
A:
This is why I never work on other peoples old cars.
Just because I work on the brakes doen not make me responsible for their crappy engine problems!
The reasonable explanation of how it can happen? He bought a old used car. All problems with it are now his.
A:
Gee, I change the windshield wiper blades and all of a sudden I'M responsible for everything that could possibly go wrong with their car. That's the big reason I had to tell my destitue friends that I could no longer work on their cars for cheap.
A:
Reminds me of my Jeep. I bought a 92 Wrangler with 142k on it. After I bought it everything started falling apart. not only did I pay too much for it, I put too much into it and ended up selling it for less than the initial cost. Everything from starters to suspension to tranny, transfercase, driveshafts, u-joints and finally a whole new engine. I hate to say it, but he's in too deep now to get out of it. He's practically built a new truck out of it already. Fight the dealership whether it's their fault or not. They have insurance that covers these sorts of things. Yeah it's wrong, but in the end what else are you going to do?
______________________________________________________________________________
77 280Z - TEC3 Engine Management, Coil Packs, 3.1 Stroker, 550CC injectors, tripple throttle body FI intake, MSA Stage II Cam, etc...etc...
79 Fairlady - Rusty
81 280ZX - DD
A:
"Yeah it's wrong, but in the end what else are you going to do?"
The right thing.
A:
I just love this $hit. You ask for advice and get told how stupid you and or your family is as well as how it's all your fault AUTOMATICALLY. I've helped people with tech problems here for 5 years and maybe 1/2 of the responses I get from asking questions have absolutely anything remotely to do with what I originally asked about. Won't see me on here very often anymore, just too old for this $hit.
19[TT]91
My TT beauty is gone.
2[00]2 Honda 954RR
Suzuki 1200 S; sportscar eater
19[I4]94 Integra GSR Sedan
Long live the Z...
aka SAHTT
Post Edited (Jul 28, 6:53am)
A:
well ok then, hope all works out well
78 280z - daily driver since 91
77 280z - v-8
75 280z - parts car/engine in 78
77 280z - stolen
79 280zx - sold
74 260 z - putting the v-8 in it from the 77
82 280zx - parts car
A:
No one said he was stupid yet, just that shyte happens.
A good place to START is to find out what is actually wrong.
Though just ASSuming it's the engine and then ASSuming the dealer caused it is kind of a stupid way to adress a mechanical issue...
A:
State your case to those in charge;
Service manager
General manager
Dealer/Owner
Try to stay calm and not make direct accusations.
Ask them how this "issue can be resolved".
Listen to their position, take notes.
If you are dissatisfied with their position the best bet is to contact Better Business Bureau, or any auto consumer agency in your state,(Texas Motor Vehicle Board), that handles repairs and file a complaint.
Always remember that YOU will have to prove your case to receive any type of compensation. If you ask for unrealistic actions or act like a raving maniac your case will be lost from the start.
I have handled consumer affairs issues at the automotive corporate level for many years.
The weakness in your case is the high mileage of the vehicle and short time/mileage of ownership. Whatever adjustments are made will be on a 'goodwill' basis, not on any admission of guilt.
General appeearance and condition of the vehicle will influence BBB review.
Complete service records from day one will help to show correct care.
No dealer will roll over for something unreasonable just because of image.
(And can sue for defamation of character)
That's why they say "Caveat Emptor" in used vehicle purchases.
Good Luck.
A:
I can understand your position since from your responses you were heavily involved in the decision of your younger brother to buy this specific vehicle.
Sometimes, no matter how careful we all are, we get less than we expect.
Sadly, many wish to revel in others misery and others wish to lash out at others instead of accepting their own limitations.
Life is a learning expereince,"The School of Hard Knocks".
Some learn quickly, some take longer to matriculate.
AutoCap
BBB
Texas Motor Vehicle Board
Greater Houston Chamber of Commerce
Small Claims (after repairs)
A:
It could be something as simle as a saggy engine mount causing the vibration and banging.
FIND OUT what the banging is from before you go "lordy, lordy it's a blown engine!, gimme a new one!"
A:
After you talk to the general manager,talk to the Zone rep.
Faster than a Motorola
A:
Toyota "Zone rep" will have nothing to do with a private sale high mileage vehicle. Not a factory issue unless a violation of their contractual agreement with the distributor.
Why waste time chasing in the wrong direction. No warranty issues here.
A:
"Gee, I change the windshield wiper blades and all of a sudden I'M responsible for everything that could possibly go wrong with their car. That's the big reason I had to tell my destitue friends that I could no longer work on their cars for cheap."
Yup been there done that.
You work on their tranny and then when the radio breaks it's somehow something you did. I also stopped doing free labor afer a few incidents like that.
When people ask me to fix stuff now I say "Hey I used to not know how to fix my car either until I bought some books and actually did it. DO yourself a favor and learn to fix it your self."
-----------------------------------------
12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
A:
Sorry to hear this zlover57,
Unfortunately, buying used cars is like playing roulette. You can look'em over with a trained eye, but in the end who knows what the PO's have done to them. Maybe the service manager's kid snuck the 4runner out over the weekend and off-roaded the pizz out of it. You just never know, which is why my cars never leave my sight for maintenance if I can help it. I did have to cough up my Z31 once for the injector recall, which is apparently what your bro was having to do.
First thing is to find out what is really wrong. What is the knock, is it really the motor, etc. Was there any oil in it?
Next, get the unresolved suspension/steering noises resolved by Fred Hass. While you are there, present them with a mechanic's report of how the engine noise could have developed. If it is as catastrophic as you describe, some event had to have happened. Have you looked at the oil pan and underside for signs of recent off-roading?
Finally, a bit of sugar goes a long way with people. Appeal to the upper management of Fred Haas that they have a chance to do some really positive public PR here. Never hurts to ask.
:)
As far as the 4runner, I've had 3 and they have all been outstanding trucks. Completely bullet proof from my experience. Tell your bro to hang in there through the kinks. Unless the thing was a complete basket case to begin with, he'll wind up with a super reliable vehicle that will run as long as he cares to own it.
~Z
........................................................................................................
'74 260Z
'88 300ZX GLL
A:
Wow!!!
There certainly is a lot to be learned here........
1. Go through the channels and get back to us.
2. Next time consider buying something less expensive and more reliable.
An older corolla, tercel or camry.
3. Know when to admit you made a mistake, and move on.
The optomist has no brakes, the pessimist has no motor.
I need a good parts car.........
A:
ZLover57, I apologize if my words came off harsh, but I'm in a service oriented business and this hit me very wrong this morning. Where do you draw the line....no where....It's a mechanical and electrical product, things break, old or new. I will say this much from a service owner side, try being nice at first with the service department. Find out exactly what is causing the knock. Is it possibly related with something they did or not. If it is there fault, make'em fix it. If it's not there fault and you've been easy to work with and understanding they may be willing to fix it free, reduced cost or work with you or you're brother some how just to save face and have a happy customer, because they know that the vehicle is going to need more work later, lose a little now to make a little later. Just my two cents and yes your brother has put a lot of money in it now, but if he can drive it 3 -4 years with no more major probs he's still ahead of the game compared with car payments..
1981zx na..auto..t-top...midnight snack for rust monster
03 Montero Sport AWD
04 Buick Rendezvous CXL...Family's gotta ride in something...
A:
"2. Next time consider buying something less expensive and more reliable."
???
........................................................................................................
'74 260Z
'88 300ZX GLL
A:
(Zoobee, that translates into buying a smaller vehicle with less parts and options on it. ) Plasti-Gage the crank the day before? NK
Norman Krell
A:
"11 year old vehicle with 120k miles"
i have a a 54 year old jeep with 400k+ on a motor that hasnt been rebuilt and i still drive it as often as i can.
----------------------------------------------------
1981 n/a 280zx
1952 m38a1 jeep willy's
1971 fairlady 240z
95 300zx N/A
72 240z
A:
A 50s Willys or ?? Jeep is totally incomparable to a mid-90s 4runner. One is designed to be bulletproof (almost literally as far as mechanicals) and the other a comfortable commuter and beach bomber.
Night and day. (How many plastic parts are on your jeep?)
Alex
'77 280Z
'69 2000 roadster (fathers, but I'm the pseudotechnician)
A:
'Back in the day' I was in Dallas Texas for a technical training program. I'm sitting in a bar with a bunch of my coworkers and a news clip comes on showing the winner of the Sunday mud bogging contest. The driver is beaming as he holds up his trophy as they fade to the winning run, a big black 4X4.
Next day at a local dealership we are doing our training. We're standing around drinking coffee and a big black 4X4 comes in on a flatbed tow truck. Seems the diff's are smoked, there's a nasty rattle in the engine, blown power steering and it only has 1500 miles on the odometer.
Customer wants repairs under warranty.
Needless to say it was a NO!
Doesn't take very many miles to destroy a vehicle if the owner tries to live out their fantasies.
Today; I have a friend whose 18 year old son has decided to drive his '06 GMC P/U in a way to knock it out of alignment every other week. Dad bought a lifetime alignment package through the local tire shop.
The tire shop has aligned it three times in 6 weeks and have now denied any more alignments.
Abuse.
My friend says he will sue for breach of contract.
He should just take the keys away from junior before those new $1100.00 Michelins that he gave sonny two months ago look like the OE tires did at 5000 miles.
Junior: "you gotta check the air pressure in the tires?"
Sadly it's genetic.
I sold him a Toyota Corona with an automatic that he gave to his roommate/girlfriend to drive while her Z28 Camaro was in the body shop.
She banged that little Toyota through the shifts and smoked the tranny in a week.
Then they replicate
A:
You've got some great advice from people like 4hlights and others -
the main thing you need is information , information and information
who, what, when, where, how, why -
then document, document document.
What is really wrong with that engine, why - etc.
If as a last resort you have to take it to court - small claims upt to $5,000 -
the rule is preponderance of the evidence, not' guilt beyond a doubt.
Deal nicely and fairly but if you really think they are at fault be firm - but have written evidence to back you up.
Check if the dealership has complaints - if so - document it. Management may be more willing to help you, so be willing to compromise.
Remember we've (Houston) got MARVIN ZINDLER and other media consumer advocates - use as absolute last resort - but then you still need that evidence.
Years ago I went to big name auto repair - had truck checked for big trip -
the idiots used air wrench on spark plugs, didn't tighten maual transmission drain plug (that ruined trans on trip)
at the shop again I showed Service Manager broken craftsman socket - trying to get sparkplug off - he takes all sparkplug wires off at once - later mechanic chews me out for taking all the wires off - I told him it was his Mangaer that did it.
I should have known better than to take my truck on that trip to Colorado after all that. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way.
Anyway - preponderance of evidence. If you got better 8x10 color glossies than they do - you got a chance.
Ed and Jeanne's
ZXelda 1981 280 ZXT: ZXena 1990 300 ZX
1941 Buick Special Sedanette (Betty)
1956 Dodge Royal (Dorothy)
1971 Buick Riviera (Rita)
1975 Ford F-150 Stepside (Fiona)
1992 Firebird (Frieda)
A:
"Obie looked at the seein' eye dog--then at the twenty-seven 8 x 10 colored glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and looked at the seein' eye dog. And then at the twenty-seven 8 x 10 colored glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and began to cry. Cause Obie came to the realization that it was a typical case of american blind justice and ther was nothin' he could do about it."
_____________________
Me YORGO...You Not
A:
"So now they say they had nothing to do with the engine problem. It ran perfect before this and I rode in the car to verify it the day before he brought it in. He always checks the oil level because of me and all the obvious is ok. "
Sounds like guilt, I bet it was like four quarts low when he brought it in for service!
"Any reasonable explanation how this could happen? All they were supposed to do was do this steering something recall and fix the above mentioned. I've been around the block with cars, had a used car business, probably spent 2,000+ man hours working on various imports over the last few years, and can't think of anything that could have caused it besides just draining all the oil out for fun."
Well, as I said above (to show you how much you REMEMBER WHAT YOU ORIGINALLY ASKED: Yes, an engine can run FINE one second, and then seize the next while low on oil.
My bet is that your brother is NOT "Always checking the oil because of you" and in this case let it go way low. You claim in 50 miles or some such ridiculous number, but unless YOU personally saw the oil level 50 miles ago, and the car was under lock and key...........
As everyone has been saying from day one on this: "Sh*t Happens", both you, AND your brother need to realize that, GET OVER IT, and move on.
He bought a lemon---it happens.
Live and learn. Why are you so bitter about someone disagreeing with you on the dealer's culpability? Signs of something amiss there. Get over your guilt, like we all said, "Sh*t Happens"
Just remember YOU asked the questions I answered. That you don't like the answers, is not MY fault.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
A:
Well, anyone that STARTS with the premise "Toyota dealer blows brother's motor" is not looking for reasonable answers. He's already decided.
That kind of thinking makes me wonder if zlover57 is a girl. A guy would never act so "wronged" so "violated" over something that was imaginary (and then never apoplogize when she finally found out that it was all in her head).
Post Edited (Aug 4, 12:24pm)